Normans Attack

[Guest NormansMum]

So me and my boy were on a little walk about 2 weeks ago. My boy is 6 going on 16 - he is very slow and sweet and placid, very friendly and trusting to dogs of all sizes. Can be a little aloof. We were walking up the road towards the end of our way when we saw two little staffie type dogs off lead. They looked excitable (I considered turning back for some reason I must of felt unsure - Now I wish I had trusted my instinct!)

 

As we reached the dogs the owner saw us, he didn't seem to concerned so we just carried on. We walked past them, the area was quite big so we weren't really near them. Norman plodded on and wasn't really interested as we at the end of our walk he was probably getting tired.

 

Next thing we know, the small white dog came running over and Norman shouted out like I've never heard!! I knew he was hurt but I couldn't really see what was going on, it took all my strength to control him as he desperately tried to break free from his lead/collar on hind legs. My poor 6 year old daughter standing next to us watching the whole thing. It seemed to go on forever but really it was just a few moments until the owner prized his dog off mine.

 

Once they had moved away I realised he must be really hurt. We were both shaking terribly. It was difficult to get him back home he was so sore. The metal catch was broken on his collar and so I had to walk him home holding him by his collar, I was very lucky he didn't run off during the attack as I must of only just managed to keep hold of him.

 

When we got home I noticed the blood on his bedding, he had been bitten several times round both his feet on his ankles and heels. He also had a very tender patch to his right shoulder. It cost over £100 at the vets. Now he has not been enjoying his walks the same. He's afraid of small dogs, generally white ones. He panics if they bark and doesn't like dogs behind him (I guess because he was attacked from behind). Just going for a 10 minute walk seems stressful for him at the moment.

 

He does have his friends, two labs and a little border terrier who he loves and they visit a lot. How can I help him get his confidence back? Has anyone had a similar experience, how did you cope? I worry that if a small white dog got too close how he might react - before the attack I knew my dog. I worry he could snap in fear but my family say he has not got an aggressive bone in his body - he hasn't but if he's frightened any dog can snap. So how do I socialise him without panicking?! Muzzle? Help!! Sorry for long post!

 

[smurfette]

So you know someone with a nice small dog. You can walk together. Or when you encounter someone with a small dog ask him or her to talk a little with a distance, no interaction between the dogs - so Norman can look at the other and realize that there is no danger.

He will need time.

But the foremost thing is you must be relaxed when encountering other dogs. When you are nervous Norman will feel it and he will react to your insecurity.

 

When I got Andy from his previous owner he tried to attack every big dog he met. He had been bit in his head. There is still a scar on his face. A worked with a friend of mine and her bin black incredible friendly large lab cross. Andy attacked him, never bit him but tried to scare him off. Phoenix just stood there and waited. After 3 times meeting them Andy realized that the big black meant no harm and relaxed. This only worked because Phoenix is such a great dog.

 

And you might consider to take some rescue remedy before you go for walks - both of you if you feel nervous.

I hope your daughter is well, too for such an attack can be very traumatizing.

[JohnF]

But the foremost thing is you must be relaxed when encountering other dogs. When you are nervous Norman will feel it and he will react to your insecurity.>>

 

 

Now that's a difficult thing to do, but you can start by realising that the more alert you are, the more relaxed you are able to be for the simple reason that you have analysed the threats better and are not so likely to be confronted, kind of like you almost did when you had that gut feeling that there could be a problem. I have learned after many years to always go with gut feelings when walking dogs, had I learned that earlier there would have been many less vet bills!

 

Norman needs to know you are actively and confidently in charge of the walk and that you are avoiding danger. I put my dog on the opposite side to me to where any threats might be and will cross the road to avoid them, or walk in an arc around them in a field of in the park. I can and will take a walking stick with me if there are persistently bad dogs where I need to go. (you could get one of those disability sticks that fold into 3 sections and just shake out... it can go in your bag)

 

Also I want you to know that the law in the UK has changed so that not only was the owner of the Staffies open to prosecution for having a dog dangerously out of control in a place where there are other people, but they are STILL dangerously out of control in the sense that whenever you see them you are genuinely worried about them. If anything like this happens again you need to report it to the police.

 

I think whenever you can you need to walk Norman in the company of dogs that he likes. Muzzling him will make him feel even less confident. Walking him in new areas will help with a re-bonding and confidence process too.

[racindog]

IMO you should first GIVE HIM SOME TIME. When he was attacked there was a massive hormone dump of the appropriate hormones. IT TAKES TIME FOR THEM TO CLEAR THE BODY. Unfortunately he may always be dog aggressive to dogs now-especially white ones. This is one of the things that makes me the maddest when irresponsible buffons allow their dog aggressive dogs to run loose. All it takes is one attack to turn a formerly very social dog into a dog aggressive one. Just remember that no matter what happens none of it was Norman's fault. He thinks he was attacked and they were trying to kill him. That is enough to upset anybody's apple cart! I think the worse thing you can do is push him and encourage him to socialize right NOW. LET HIM DECIDE when he feels comfortable enough to approach a strange dog if you must. As scared as he is right now imo it will just make things worse to push him into it. I would let him walk with his dog friends if he likes and take super good yummy treats for him on his walks for now. You want to make him see walks as a positive thing that good comes from. Give him some randomly and also when you see a strange dog in the distance. But do not pull him over to the strange dog to 'socialize'. It will only scare him at this point. Just reward him when he sees one a distance away and carry's on without incident. In this way he will begin to learn that good things(his treat) come when strange dogs appear and that they are not a immediate threat to him. But you have to go slow and take your time. Weeks/months I'm talking. And don't scrimp on the treats. These have to be really really special ones- not his run of the mill ones. In time I think he will settle back down but it might take much longer than you think it should. And you are right not to "trust' him around dogs esp white dogs now. You can't blame him-he thinks they tried to kill him once and he instinctively will try to protect himself if he feels threatened. I hope he gets well soon. Thank God he wasn't hurt worse. Irresponsible dodo's that let their dog aggressive dogs run loose and attack innocents is one of my pet peeves. I think you should have called the law also. Often people like that still allow them to run loose even after they have already attacked others and the more reports the police get the sooner they can take action to put an end to it and protect innocents like you and Norman.

[Guest NormansMum]

Hi thanks for the advice, I know i need to be confident for him as i don't want him to pick up on any anxiety on my behalf. He would be happy to never leave the house at the moment but i have been taking him on lots of little walks to build his confidence up. I also try to walk him with my mum and sisters dogs when i can, he enjoys this more. We have my sisters dog staying for a few days which is nice for him. But any dog he doesn't recognise he will try to rush past with tail between the legs.

 

I know I need to be patient and that it will take time. I just hate how its effected my dog he was never like this before.

 

I did report the incident a couple of days after to the local police and they came to my house and have been really good. But the guy did not hang around afterwards and we were too shaken to ask questions at the time, I just wanted his dog away from mine. I don't think I realised fully what had happened until after as I was probably in shock. Luckily my daughter is ok, she witnessed the dog biting Norman as she had full view of it. But has coped very well. We have talked about it together. Thanks everyone

[Guest NormansMum]

When he meets other dogs, he is not aggressive at all, just VERY nervous. Tries to run past in a panic, panting, hiding behind me etc. Tries to turn back. I did try him on some valerian caps which seemed to help so maybe we will try that again. I suppose I know there is no instant fix and that I just need to give it time. Its just made me so angry!! The police will update me if they find anyone with that description, but they don't have much to go off unfortunately which is my fault : (

[racindog]

I so understand. He may very well get over it but it will probably take him awhile. I don't know how common homeopathic meds are in UK but there is one called aconite. It is for just such terrible occurrences as what happened to Norman. It can help and so can the Bach Rescure Remedy another poster mentioned. You should use the 200 potency-at least 10-15 drops- twice a day for 3 days(or directions in article too). A vet prescribed it for a dog of mine that had a sudden startle and thought they were under attack and got real scared. I am so sorry that happened to Norman. Just be strong as you can for him-your emotions go right down the leash to him; don't push him to return to normalcy too fast; and be patient and I do believe he will get better. You will never be able to erase the memory of it-dogs don't forget anything- but you can often help them to move past it and put it behind them. Give him some scritches and pats for me.

http://www.thehomeopathiccoach.com/shock-grief-trauma-homeopathy/

[Guest NormansMum]

Ahh thank you so much for you help xx

[KickReturn]

Some good advice above. One additional thought, and I know it is a remote possibility, do you know anyone with a super alpha greyhound that can walk with you and pal up with Norman? The sort that can turn around the most aggressive or rambunctious dogs with a raised eyebrow, a stare, a tilt of the head, show of teeth if necessary, etc? I have seen this type transform the most timid dogs. I guess the timid dog comes to believe everything is "taken care of" and can get on with it's regular routine. In time the confidence returns. Or perhaps you can play that role, but I understand that may not be possible for some people for various reasons.

Edited August 29, 2017 by KickReturn

[racindog]

Some good advice above. One additional thought, and I know it is a remote possibility, do you know anyone with a super alpha greyhound that can walk with you and pal up with Norman? The sort that can turn around the most aggressive or rambunctious dogs with a raised eyebrow, a stare, a tilt of the head, show of teeth if necessary, etc? I have seen this type transform the most timid dogs. I guess the timid dog comes to believe everything is "taken care of" and can get on with it's regular routine. In time the confidence returns. Or perhaps you can play that role, but I understand that may not be possible for some people for various reasons.

You really hit the nail on the head! I didn't even think about that but it is so true. Slim was one of those. If another dog was 'rude' to him he would stop, look at them with a 'you don't want any of this' message, and then the other dog would know he had better change his mind! I had a poor male named Goldie that was so spooky when I got him that it was sad. BUT by the time he buddyed up with Slim for a while he TOTALLY transformed into an un-fearful and even outgoing, comfortable and relaxed dog!!! Even his bark changed! When he was a fraidy cat before Slim it was a squeaky little girl bark. After Slim it was deep, loud, and robust. A dog such as you described/suggested can indeed work wonders.

[Guest NormansMum]

Hi, he definitely walks better with his 'pack' the two labs and they are like his support group. He is more confident with them and he enjoys his walks more when we all walk together. He needs to learn to trust again as he did before....he used to be Mr Chilled himself! He has become afraid of his own shadow of late. I'll continue to walk him with his confident friends and take the advice on board! Thanks so much for everyone's help.

[Guest Amber]

Agree with giving him time to get over it. My old greyhound Petra was attacked by a JRT, very similar situation (it ran over from really far away and bit her multiple times). She actually picked it up in her mouth to get it off and the owner had to prise his JR out of her gob (it was still biting her even then -she has a big infected puncture on the back of her neck).

 

She was quite touchy for a while after that but she did get over it.

 

I agree trying to show confidence around other dogs is key but easier said than done after such a bad experience ! You also will need time to get over it.

 

I would advise practising some 'self defense' moves for you and Norman. Although these things happen in a split second do try to trust your instincts and if you think an approaching dog is trouble do not hesitate to do what you have to do (including booting it I'm afraid) to protect your own dog. Generally I find facing up to these dogs in a very assertive/aggressive manner and shouting at them to Back Off in the Voice of God, whilst it won't win you any friends, is usually quite effective at getting rid of bad dogs.

 

Once Normal knows that he can trust you to protect him he'll relax more again and then the need to keep other dogs that have a bad approach (if it is just rudeness) wont be so great, but you'll be prepared to take action against any aggressive dogs.

 

Hope Norman feels better soon, it is really is a horrid experience for everyone.

[KickReturn]

Some good advice above. One additional thought, and I know it is a remote possibility, do you know anyone with a super alpha greyhound that can walk with you and pal up with Norman? The sort that can turn around the most aggressive or rambunctious dogs with a raised eyebrow, a stare, a tilt of the head, show of teeth if necessary, etc? I have seen this type transform the most timid dogs. I guess the timid dog comes to believe everything is "taken care of" and can get on with it's regular routine. In time the confidence returns. Or perhaps you can play that role, but I understand that may not be possible for some people for various reasons.

 

You really hit the nail on the head! I didn't even think about that but it is so true. Slim was one of those. If another dog was 'rude' to him he would stop, look at them with a 'you don't want any of this' message, and then the other dog would know he had better change his mind! I had a poor male named Goldie that was so spooky when I got him that it was sad. BUT by the time he buddyed up with Slim for a while he TOTALLY transformed into an un-fearful and even outgoing, comfortable and relaxed dog!!! Even his bark changed! When he was a fraidy cat before Slim it was a squeaky little girl bark. After Slim it was deep, loud, and robust. A dog such as you described/suggested can indeed work wonders.

 

I had one of these and he amazed me constantly. I miss him terribly. He could even "fix" terrified dogs he met on his walks. I eventually learned all I needed to do was to stay out of his damn way and let him do his thing. And no one gets chomped when one of these is around.

[racindog]

 

 

I had one of these and he amazed me constantly. I miss him terribly. He could even "fix" terrified dogs he met on his walks. I eventually learned all I needed to do was to stay out of his damn way and let him do his thing. And no one gets chomped when one of these is around.

I remember KickReturn. We have talked of him before. He and Slim were so much alike! And yes you are SOOO correct. He and Slim would never have permitted anyone to even be threatened, much less chomped, when they were around. They are 1 in a million dogs for sure.

[Guest NormansMum]

Thanks everyone. It's been really difficult. The canal path where we used to do most of our walks he does NOT want to go on!! Which is such a shame. There is more off lead dogs there and I think that could be why, he feels vulnerable when he's on lead and they are not. He is more confident walking on the pavements. I want to build his confidence, but I don't want to enforce his fears.

 

We did a short canal walk earlier and he was a total NERVOUS wreck!! Seems to have good days and bad days to be honest. We met a few friendly dogs but he just went to pieces, shaking, tail between the legs, not wanting to walk on. I always take treats in my pockets to try and encourage him. I feel that he's even more nervous around people now too. I'm worried about the situation getting worse.

[racindog]

If you don't give him anything else try Rescue Remedy 4 drops twice a day. Aspen & Mimulus would probably also be helpful. It absolutely will not harm him and it may help him. It is still fresh in his mind. Just don't push him into any situation where those fear hirmones are produced. You want his body to clear of them entirely and it takes time. Re-enforce to him always that YOU will protect him from other people and dogs. I still believe that he can recover with time. Acupressure has also proven to be a BIG help for dogs in this situation-something to consider. It has helped dogs exactly in his situation to recover completely.

Check out page 6 story on Stella the service dog and how it helped her:

https://1drv.ms/b/s!Aovi9jww8DCQiB9HIIBlxbka8A11

 

And this one is good to. It has some good calming and fear points:

https://1drv.ms/b/s!Aovi9jww8DCQiB7e0fWDV7szjmFY

 

 

 

Gentle hugs to Norman from his friends across the pond

Edited September 8, 2017 by racindog

[Guest Amber]

The trouble with Canal tow paths is that they are usually straight and very narrow, so on coming dogs have to meet each other head on (not good in dog language) and there is not enough space for him , so he's feeling forced into direct contact with oncoming dogs.

 

I would avoid walking him anywhere like that and if possible, instead take him in the car to open spaces , where there is more room to create a safe distance . The encouraging him with treats won't work if he is too stressed and the only way to reduce the stress and fear is to reduce the intensity of the trigger (unknown dogs) by making sure they are further away so he is not confronted by them up close.

 

If you can find a good trainer with some nice, friendly, polite stooge dogs that may help; or even once his confidence improves try to join up with other people (facebook dog friendly groups are good, or greyhound groups in your area) for nice walks. But the key really is to maximise his positive experiences at a pace and intensity (ie distance to others) he feels OK with , using well behaved dogs with good social skills and try really hard to avoid any that are boisterous/rude/aggressive. Also try to avoid walking him in narrow areas where he's forced into head on meetings (even if the other dogs are OK, that will make him feel stressed).

 

Hope he feels better soon , it's not nice when your best friend gets attacked.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Amber

[JohnF]

Seriously, walk with a stout walking stick. You'll be more confident, your dog will be more confident, and other dogs will just know you mean business.. Make sure that you 'split' your dog from approaching ones by you being between him and the other one before they get close enough to make you step out of the way. Maybe you can pick times of day when there aren't so many irresponsible people walking their dogs?

[smurfette]

I was attacked by a dog when I was maybe 17 years old. My dog and I walked down the street and a foxterrier came running, jumped at me and bit into my arm (took a piece with him when gravity kicked in).

After that incident I was afraid of loose dogs - in a subconscious way and my dog reacted to my fear.

I took a course with a trainer who trains k9 for the police and learned to react to an attack, to stand a fighting chance against an attacking dog (It involved a 40 kg sack stuffed with sand in form of a german shepherd and loads of sore muscles) and it helped me to gain back my confidence.

Maybe you could find something like that in your area.

 

And you can put the rescue remedy in his water bowl when you are not at home to give it to him 4 times a day.

[Guest sara_rose]

I know firsthand what a terrifying situation this is. My sweet, shy greyhound was attacked in a very similar scenario back in February of this year. It was a huge setback for her and she's now afraid of all dogs that aren't greyhounds. It has taken several months, but over the summer she started getting excited to go for walks again. After her wounds healed, we started working with her by taking her for very short walks near our house and gave her small treats for being willing to leave the yard, staying calm when she could see other dogs, etc. We did that for a while and gradually built up the distance as she regained confidence. We also occasionally took her for walks with the lady who fostered her and her new foster hound, which helped as well. We'll likely be working on her fear of dogs for a long time, particularly since people constantly break the leash rule on our street, but we try to let her observe other dogs from a distance and reward her for staying calm. It's been a long process, but she has definitely made progress. I'm sure with time and patience your grey will regain his confidence as well. I'm so sorry this happened and hope for the best for your boy!