Possible Hypothyroid... Just Want Some Feedback/advice

[Guest mgodwin]

Hi everyone!

 

I've been concerned about Ginny's thyroid for a while now and finally decided to get it tested. The reason for the concern is that since I brought her home in April 2015 she has lost all of her hair on her abdomen and most of it on her thighs. I know that bald thighs is common in greyhounds. But in addition to that she is also thinning on her flanks and just behind her front legs. I thought maybe she was just blowing her coat for the winter but it's been a few months now. She has also developed dark spots on her abdomen, dry flaky skin, dry/dull coat, and is scratching her ears more than normal. I took her to the vet Monday and had blood drawn. During the physical exam her ears looked normal but the vet said that given the symptoms it is certainly possible for her to be hypothyroid and it didn't look like allergies since her skin isn't red or itchy. She ordered total T4 and fT4ED. Total T4 was undetectable at <0.5 ug/dL (ref. 0.8-3.5 ug/dL) and fT4ED was on the low end of normal at 9 pmol/L (ref. 8-40 pmol/L). After talking with her yesterday she said she wanted to try a low dose of soloxine (0.5mg/day; 1/2 tab every 12 hours) and check her again in a month. If in a month she showed no improvement and/or was showing signs of being hyperthyroid then we would take her off the meds and re-evaluate. But, she also said that if I wanted to be more conservative in my approach that she was okay not starting soloxine and re-checking everything at her annual physical in February. I've already sent the results to Dr. Couto and expect to hear back from him early next week and I've called the vet's office to have them order cTSH as well since the lab still has the serum from the original draw.

 

I'm just curious what your thoughts are. I know some of you have experience with this and I just want to do what's best for my girl.

[greysmom]

Thyroid issues are hard to get a handle on. That's my take. Symptoms can masquerade as other illnesses, and even *very* low numbers can be completely normal for some greyhounds.

 

One of our dogs came to us already on thyroid medication. He was barely two years old and had been put on supplementation back in the days when a thin coat and bald thighs automatically meant "thyroid problem." We got him because he was returned for being "too hyper." And he was. But we dealt with it like was still just a puppy (true) and let him be himself. I didn't begin thinking something was off until a couple years later when I was teaching one of our other dogs some basic obedience. Our other dogs who were not in the class, picked up on the cues and training at home right away, but Dude couldn't seem to concentrate for more than 5 seconds. We'd had trouble keeping weight on him, and his coat was painted on black fur even in the dead of winter. He was also always hot - like, hot water bottle hot - all the time, and a bit agressive but anxious at the same time. After much heming and hawing and talking with his vet, we decided to take him OFF his thyroid meds. Two months later, he was calm, had gained weight, picked up some commands, and a normal temperature for the first time. His lab test read 0.2 at that time. So numbers don't always tell the whole story.

 

All that being said (long story long? ) I don't think a trial of thyroid would be a bad thing in your dog's case. Though it might take as long as three months to see a difference.

[XTRAWLD]

T4 being undetectable is strange! I have a little card at home that has "proper" thyroid levels for a greyhound, which are usually in a totally different realm for other dogs. I'll be sure to post later when I get home unless someone will beat me to it, but sounds like if they are undetectable that a course of some meds to get them on the radar might be in order. I also agree that it can take a minimum of 6-8 weeks and up to 3 months before they will show up again on a test but perhaps only a few days of being on it to already see a physical improvement.

 

To be honest, I don't know that you will notice signs of hypothyroidism (this is a human with it speaking from experience). The most symptoms I've felt was difficulty sleeping, and you know greyhounds are champion sleepers!

 

Also on the same note, iron levels play a part in thyroid levels (again from human experience). Sometimes treating an iron deficiency for example might help alleviate a thyroid problem. Something to think about for a canine, I'm just not sure if it's the same as a human situation..... Did they test iron levels? I don't know if they usually do?! Interestingly, female (humans) typically experience iron deficiency more often than males (well because we have our dreaded monthly gift) so again I'm not sure how that translates to canines but worth considering?

[Guest mgodwin]

Thyroid issues are hard to get a handle on. That's my take. Symptoms can masquerade as other illnesses, and even *very* low numbers can be completely normal for some greyhounds.

 

One of our dogs came to us already on thyroid medication. He was barely two years old and had been put on supplementation back in the days when a thin coat and bald thighs automatically meant "thyroid problem." We got him because he was returned for being "too hyper." And he was. But we dealt with it like was still just a puppy (true) and let him be himself. I didn't begin thinking something was off until a couple years later when I was teaching one of our other dogs some basic obedience. Our other dogs who were not in the class, picked up on the cues and training at home right away, but Dude couldn't seem to concentrate for more than 5 seconds. We'd had trouble keeping weight on him, and his coat was painted on black fur even in the dead of winter. He was also always hot - like, hot water bottle hot - all the time, and a bit agressive but anxious at the same time. After much heming and hawing and talking with his vet, we decided to take him OFF his thyroid meds. Two months later, he was calm, had gained weight, picked up some commands, and a normal temperature for the first time. His lab test read 0.2 at that time. So numbers don't always tell the whole story.

 

All that being said (long story long? ) I don't think a trial of thyroid would be a bad thing in your dog's case. Though it might take as long as three months to see a difference.

 

I'm thinking we'll give it a go, keep a close eye on it, and see how she progresses.

 

T4 being undetectable is strange! I have a little card at home that has "proper" thyroid levels for a greyhound, which are usually in a totally different realm for other dogs. I'll be sure to post later when I get home unless someone will beat me to it, but sounds like if they are undetectable that a course of some meds to get them on the radar might be in order. I also agree that it can take a minimum of 6-8 weeks and up to 3 months before they will show up again on a test but perhaps only a few days of being on it to already see a physical improvement.

 

To be honest, I don't know that you will notice signs of hypothyroidism (this is a human with it speaking from experience). The most symptoms I've felt was difficulty sleeping, and you know greyhounds are champion sleepers!

 

Also on the same note, iron levels play a part in thyroid levels (again from human experience). Sometimes treating an iron deficiency for example might help alleviate a thyroid problem. Something to think about for a canine, I'm just not sure if it's the same as a human situation..... Did they test iron levels? I don't know if they usually do?! Interestingly, female (humans) typically experience iron deficiency more often than males (well because we have our dreaded monthly gift) so again I'm not sure how that translates to canines but worth considering?

 

Thanks for the response!

 

When I say it was undetectable, it was below the threshold for the assay which is 0.5 ug/dL. So, if a more sensitive assay was used they might be able to detect it but whatever the level is, it fell outside the detectable range for that particular assay. There's obviously T4 present if it showed up on the equilibrium dialysis since they used the same sample but its just not enough to register.

 

They didn't check her iron levels, just total T4 and free T4. When she had her annual back in February, there was nothing remarkable on it, including Iron levels.

 

I actually just got off the phone with the vet's office and they've ordered cTSH. With it already being the afternoon I doubt I'll hear anything before Monday but we'll see.

Thanks for the response!

 

When I say it was undetectable, it was below the threshold for the assay which is 0.5 ug/dL. So, if a more sensitive assay was used they might be able to detect it but whatever the level is, it fell outside the detectable range for that particular assay. There's obviously T4 present if it showed up on the equilibrium dialysis since they used the same sample but its just not enough to register.

 

They didn't check her iron levels, just total T4 and free T4. When she had her annual back in February, there was nothing remarkable on it, including Iron levels.

 

I actually just got off the phone with the vet's office and they've ordered cTSH. With it already being the afternoon I doubt I'll hear anything before Monday but we'll see.

[Batmom]

T4 is next to meaningless. It's the fT4ed you'd think about.

[XTRAWLD]

My little card says:

Total T4 (nMol/L) should be 8-20.

Other breeds is 20-33.

I don't know what units those are in.

The source of this card is www.greyhoundhealthinitiative.org

 

My other little card says:

T4 should be 0.5-3.6.

Other breeds is 1.52-3.60

Also says if clinical signs of hyopthyroid are present, consider testing T4 with cTSH.

The source of this card is www.greythealth.com

[juliemac]

mgodwin ... good luck with your pup's condition, and we look forward to seeing your progress on this thread!

 

In case you didn't follow the responses above, greyhound blood levels don't always fall within standard "normal" ranges. Thyroid values are one of those special cases, so help your vet confirm that the values you're receiving are really indication of hypothyroidism (greysinitiative is a great source of reliable data ... see above message for the link since I'm not good at posting links). I might suggest that you print off the normal blood values for greyhounds and bring it with you (I also make sure a copy of those values are included in my vet's records to make sure they're available when needed). And sorry for the post if I was just missed Halloween in my Captain Obvious costume!

 

Welcome to Greytalk!

[tbhounds]

T4 is next to meaningless. It's the fT4ed you'd think about.

I found that the fT4's are are on the low end for gh's too-I would wait until the cTsh results return before I started supplementation -but, that's just me ;-)