Help With Next Steps In Elimination Diet

[Guest itsagreytlife]

Selah has been on TOTW Pacific Salmon for over a month now and seems to be doing ok with it, except for soft poops (which may or may not be a result of hooks). She came to us with a nasty skin condition which resulted in a secondary staph infection and terrible itchiness & biting. After pred and antibiotics and this TOTW version elimination diet (no treats other than salmon...boring & stinky breath) her skin is much improved. It is still very dry and dandruffy, but I am williing to work with that. A couple weeks ago I introduced raw chicken to her, which she loves, and have found no negative affects with it. Next I will try beef (hopefully it will be okay since I already got some bully sticks!).

 

I am stumped on how to go about introducing the "smaller" ingredients that were common in the two types of kibble she was on previously (exs. flaxseed, oats, wheat flour, sorghum) so as to isolate the possible allergen(s). Ideally I would like to be able to give her a bit of treat variety, including doggy biscuits. I am having success with the dried chicken tenders now, but I am working on training and would like to expand the treat menu. Also it would be nice to just know what she can and can't tolerate (if it IS the food). I know I can just give her rice to discover if that's a problem (any difference in white and brown rice?), but the other stuff I don't know how to give to her one at a time. I may also want to switch her food if the soft poops do not improve after the hooks are cured.

 

Thanks for any ideas!

[Sambuca]

Read the ingredients in her food. There are probably fruits and veggies in it. You can give those as treats.

[MaryJane]

You can mix things like the cooked oats into the food she is getting now, just mix one at a time in and start with just a tablespoon or so and each day add another tablespoon. Check to see if she seems itchier or if the stools are softer. If after 5 days there are no problems, go to the next ingredient.

[Guest itsagreytlife]

Have tried an assortment of fruits and veggies. She doesn't want anything to do with them. Seems to be a total carnivore.

 

You can mix things like the cooked oats into the food she is getting now, just mix one at a time in and start with just a tablespoon or so and each day add another tablespoon. Check to see if she seems itchier or if the stools are softer. If after 5 days there are no problems, go to the next ingredient.

 

So, just add about a tblsp of wheat flour "as is" to her kibble? Same with flaxseed and the rest?

 

Thanks!

[Batmom]

The wheat should be cooked. You could use shredded wheat cereal for that; it's wheat with a little preservative. Flaxseed you can buy at most groceries; you want it ground, or to grind it yourself.

 

I would leave 3 weeks in between additions of new things.

 

You should be able to find treats that have only the ingredients in the food -- for example, fish treats. Online retailers like sitstay.com and petfooddirect.com usually have a good selection.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Have tried an assortment of fruits and veggies. She doesn't want anything to do with them. Seems to be a total carnivore.

 

Can't blame a carnivore for eating like one. As for anything else, just add one ingredient at a time, though I would stay away from flax seed. It's a source of omega 6s which are already overabundant (and the reason supplementing with fish oil is necessary) in a dog's diet unless it eats much grads fed meats. Too much omega 6 contributes to inflammation in the body - not what you want.

[cleptogrey]

shouldn't she be able to use flax seed oil instead of grinding the flax?

 

w/ humans it's eliminate then add the substance to the diet for a couple of consecutive days but it's 3xs a day. i would not add flax more than once a day, so go for a week of each substance added in unless there is an immediate reaction, generally there is.take your time adding each new item in. i know about the human regimed, been there!

[MaryJane]

As mentioned, wheat should be cooked. You might want to try spaghetti like elbows for the wheat.

[Guest oldNELLIE]

w/ humans it's eliminate then add the substance to the diet for a couple of consecutive days but it's 3xs a day.

 

This is similar to what I was going to say. With humans it is eliminate, then sit down to a substantial reintroduction. I am not sure if it is the same for pups, but when I was reintroducing I ate a lot of what I was trying to determine a reaction to.

[Guest itsagreytlife]

This is all great stuff! Thank you! But what about "ground sorghum?" I know its a type of grain but don't know how to isolate it. I guess I could try to isolate everything else and then try some type of treat with the sorghum added and see what happens.

 

Seems to be a difference of opinion on how long to wait to introduce a new ingredient (5 days, 1 wk, 3 wks, etc). I was under the impression the symptoms would show pretty quickly if the substance is an allergen. Not much of a GI issue for her (at least no diarrhea) but the skin--ugh! Just gave her Heartgard Plus & Frontline Plus and I think one of those gave her a bit of the itchies as well as more dandruff. No irritated bumps at the application site or anything like I have read about. I will keep everything at a snail's pace and continue to watch (but the fish breath is driving me crazy! ).

 

I should add she is a "black beauty" and I think, perhaps, the dry skin/dandruff condition shows a bit more on her coat than others?

 

Thanks again for all your input!

 

Mary

[Guest verthib]

Have tried an assortment of fruits and veggies. She doesn't want anything to do with them. Seems to be a total carnivore.

 

Can't blame a carnivore for eating like one. As for anything else, just add one ingredient at a time, though I would stay away from flax seed. It's a source of omega 6s which are already overabundant (and the reason supplementing with fish oil is necessary) in a dog's diet unless it eats much grads fed meats. Too much omega 6 contributes to inflammation in the body - not what you want.

 

So I give my greys two capsules a day of fish oil, but they are on Natural Balance Fish and Sweet Potato... should I stop doing that? This is in reference to your comment about too much omega 6 can cause inflammation. Thank you!

[cleptogrey]

when it comes to fish oil i found that i needed to give my dogs at least 4 pumps of the lakse cronche wild salmon fish oil. the capsules did bupkah. btw, how long has your dog been off the track and what color is it? just curious, the dark dogs have wild dandruff, especially when they are blowing coats. it's just about that time of the year again! it also can take what seems like an eternity to get rid of a nasty staph infection, has she been retested? she just might have something else on her skin which needs to be identified,- could be fall allergies, all the mold in the earth drives some dogs ballistic... who knows? i had a friend who went thru god only knows what for years, finally a new variety of both canned food- RABBIT- and dry were the answer. but it took time to get there.

 

have you tried venison?- nature's variety has a venison blend, also try wiping her down w/ a wet cloth to get rid of the pollen/molds she has collected outside, there us bound to be a frost soon..kill off all those external allergins.

[Guest itsagreytlife]

when it comes to fish oil i found that i needed to give my dogs at least 4 pumps of the lakse cronche wild salmon fish oil. the capsules did bupkah. btw, how long has your dog been off the track and what color is it? just curious, the dark dogs have wild dandruff, especially when they are blowing coats. it's just about that time of the year again! it also can take what seems like an eternity to get rid of a nasty staph infection, has she been retested? she just might have something else on her skin which needs to be identified,- could be fall allergies, all the mold in the earth drives some dogs ballistic... who knows? i had a friend who went thru god only knows what for years, finally a new variety of both canned food- RABBIT- and dry were the answer. but it took time to get there.

 

have you tried venison?- nature's variety has a venison blend, also try wiping her down w/ a wet cloth to get rid of the pollen/molds she has collected outside, there us bound to be a frost soon..kill off all those external allergins.

 

Yes I also have been giving her 3 pumps of salmon oil in her kibble. She is black and been off the track for a good 6-7 months now. I know she is shedding right now, but the dandruff really started up (significantly) again RIGHT after I gave her the prevention meds. I do suspect outdoor/inhalant allergies as well as a food suspect. She seems to be going thru another bout of something now where she is itching just a bit more than she has recently and rubbing herself all over in the grass. Change in weather has an affect on allergens I am sure. And, yes, I am pretty anal about wiping/hosing off her paws before she comes in too.

 

Don't see any signs of staph infection, thank goodness. I look her over pretty carefully every night for any redness or bumps (she came to me pretty red and bumpy and bitten and i haven't been able to shake my worry over her skin). So far nothing like she had .

 

I will eventually try another food, like the venison or bison or whatever, but will keep it status quo for awhile until this new dandruff itchiness subsides. Even tho I bought 6 months of the heartgard & frontline I am thinking of trying something new next month to see if she has any similar reaction.

 

Thanks very much for all your ideas!

[Guest Swifthounds]

Can't blame a carnivore for eating like one. As for anything else, just add one ingredient at a time, though I would stay away from flax seed. It's a source of omega 6s which are already overabundant (and the reason supplementing with fish oil is necessary) in a dog's diet unless it eats much grads fed meats. Too much omega 6 contributes to inflammation in the body - not what you want.

 

So I give my greys two capsules a day of fish oil, but they are on Natural Balance Fish and Sweet Potato... should I stop doing that? This is in reference to your comment about too much omega 6 can cause inflammation. Thank you!

 

I'm not sure I'm clear about what you're asking, but I'll try to clarify and feel free to ask questions if I don't answer your question. Omega 6s are found in abundance in grains and other things like flax seed, including the grain diets of farmed animals. For example grass fed beef have a proper ratio of omega 6s and omega 3s. Feed that same beef a grain diet and you end up with many multiples too much of omega 6s and inflammation of joints and tissues. You can correct this ratio by supplementing with omega 3s.

 

The general dosage is 300mgs of combined EPA and DHA per 30 lbs of weight. It can be increased to a therapytic dose of 300mgs per 10 lbs of bodyweight.

 

You probably have 1000 or 1200 mg gels (mgs of oil) and the label will tell you the EPA and DHA which is usually 300 mg or 360. At that, the two pills would be a starting dose for a 60 lb dog. That same dog could have ad much as 6 and still be in the good range. I usually start with the low dose and increase as needed.

[cleptogrey]

6 MONTHS IS NOT THAT LONG FOR A DOG TO CHANGE COAT ESPECIALLY IF SHE WAS CHALLENGED BY A STAFF INFECTION. SINCE IT'S STILL WARM OUT, I WOULD HOSE HER DOWN AND TOWEL DRY HER W/ PLAIN WATER TO RINSE THE ALLERGINS IN THE DIRT/GRASS OFF. MY OLD WELSH TERRIER HAD REALLY BAD REACTIONS DURING THE FALL TO THE MOLDS IN THE EARTH, I HOSED HIM DOWN-THE ENTIRE DOG - NO SOAP, THAT COULD BE AN IRRITANT, AND AVOIDED THE FALL HOT SPOTS,NIBBLES AND MY FALL ALLERGIES WERE MUCH BETTER AS WELL(LESS POLUTANTS COMING IN W/ THE DOG).

 

IT TOOK MY BLACK GREYHOUND A GOOD 5-6 MONTHS OR MORE TO FINALLY GROW A LUXERIOUS COAT, I UPPED THE FISH OIL AND WENT THRU FIRST BLOWING OF THE KENNEL COAT THEN A SPRING SHED(I GOT HER IN NOVEMEMBER). I ALSO TESTED OUT WAY TOO MANY COAT SUPPLIMENTS. OUR RED FAWN CAME WITH A UBER COAT- WINTER IN MASS. AND NEVER SHOWED ANY SIGNS OF DRY SKIN,BUT I PUT HER ON FISH OIL AS A FOSTER. THAT'S WHY I ASKED ABOUT THE COLOR. BE PATIENT, COATS TAKE A LONG TIME TO CHANGE.

[MaryJane]

One note, I give my dogs fish oil but too much can cause diarrhea and it has the same properties of aspirin in that it can cause more bruising/bleeding so if you are giving fish oil just remember that they have to come off if they are having any surgical procedures or if you start seeing bruising. You also want to make sure that your vet has this listed as a "supplemental" med that she is taking.

 

The "dandruff" can also be caused by a greyhound getting nervous. I noticed this when I was doing meet-n-greets with my black greyhound years ago. Sometimes when he got a little nervous it would be like it started snowing on his back. But, an hour later there would not be any more flaking ....

 

You might find it helpful using one of those suede mitts used to groom dogs. Running your hands over a greyhound seems to promote the natural oils to rise to the skin so it can give a nice shiny coat.