Need Advice For A Sort Of Shy Guy

[Guest mirinaaronsmom]

I had a foster awhile back who is now in his forever home and his new mom asked me for some advice. Since I'm by no means an expert, I thought I'd check with the folks here since you all have 'been there, done that'.

 

When I foster, I have a friend (non-grey) come in to let the pups out midday. This particular foster was very shy with him (all of my other fosters have been fine with him and my grey loves him). The foster NEVER acted this way with me, so it really surprised me when my sitter reported this. He didn't want to come out of the crate and unfortunately, my friend didn't handle it very well and the foster became more and more afraid of him and when he would finally come out, he would run to some other place in the house and pee. I thought that maybe he was afraid of men, so I had a woman that I've 'used' in the past come in for a couple of days. She had the same problem but didn't force him to exit the crate, and he pee'd in the crate since he couldn't hold it all day while I was gone. This all took place within two weeks and then he was adopted.

 

Well, I heard from his mom this morning that he's having the same problem when she asks a friend to come and let her dogs out. (She only needs him to come when she and her husband can't be there, which isn't that often.) She has another grey and a lab, who adore this friend. She has had the friend over several times while she was there and he will take treats from him (he did this from my sitter also), but seems to get overwhelmed when 'mom' is not home. He seems to be handling this friend a bit better than mine since he will run into another room to hide and at least doesn't pee. I was hoping that once he felt secure in his new home he would not demonstrate this behavior. Maybe this shows my lack of experience - he's only been in his forever home for about a month so he probably doesn't know it's his forever home yet. Anyway, we're hoping that someone here can help out. I would think that a lot of time and patience would be the key, but that's really hard to do when a sitter doesn't have the vested interest that a parent (foster or permanent) has.

 

Thanks in advance,

Phyllis and Miriam and foster, Mojo (and Aaron, gone but still loved)

[NeylasMom]

Does he *have* to have the visits? I would stop the visits when the adopters aren't home until he can have more time when they are home to get comfortable with this person. That would mean she comes over, drops treats into his crate, rewards him if he comes up to her, but otherwise pretty much leaves him alone. No coaxing, no trying to get him out of the crate. Unfortunately if they don't put a stop to the pattern that's going on now, I suspect it will just get worse or if some time he can't get away, he may snap or bite.

 

By the way, I don't think there's anything wrong wiht the way he's acting. Imagine how you would feel if you were a young child and a person who you vaguely knew as a friend of your mom's just came one day and tried to take you outside of your house. You'd be scared. He just needs to get more comfortable with this person. Once he's more comfortable with her in the home, then they can have the dog walker practice taking him out on lead, WITH the owners and once he's comfortable iwth that, the walker can take him out without the owners going with her, but with them still at home. When he's comfortable with that, THEN I would say he's ready to have the mid-day visits.

 

Last thing I'll add, I wouldn't suggest anyone reach into the crate to get him out at any time. Rather, use really yummy human treats and drop them on teh floor in front of the crate so he wants to come up. The owners can just practice this on their own so he's more inclined to do it for the dog walker when she comes.

 

I hope that helps/makes some sense. I'm overtired and sort of rambling instead of explaining concisely what I'd do.

[TheFullHouse]

Bebe is shy with new people coming into the house. I've always told visitors to just ignore her until she makes the first move. Usually once the person has been here for a big she will move forward to try and make friends with them. If they reach out to touch her and she runs away and just tell them to wait and try again. Usually though when it comes to going outside, Bebe will follow the other dogs.

 

Maybe just opening the crate and walking away, opening the door for the pups to go outside and walking away from the door and do something else will help. I'd just leave the door open and let the pup go out and come back in with the other dogs, not making a big deal about it. I've found that with Bebe, the more of a deal you make of it, the worse she gets. Sounds simplistic I know. Maybe someone with more experience has some other suggestions.

[Guest mirinaaronsmom]

Yes, sometimes the visits are necessary. His new mom has to go out of town occasionally for work and it's too long of a day for the dogs until her husband gets home.

 

My sitter tried just ignoring him and letting him follow Miri outside, but he still wouldn't come out of the crate. I'm not sure how long he waited. Both of my sitters tried putting treats (hot dogs and cheese) at various places in and out of the crate to lure him out. He just stayed as far back in the crate as he could.

 

It was kind of hard to train him when I was home because he came right out of the crate for me, so I could never see how he acted toward strangers when I wasn't there. (We tried it once when he thought I wasn't there, but as soon as he saw me peek around the corner, he came out. They are sight hounds. ) I'm guessing it's the same with his new parents. We definitely don't blame him for acting this way. I felt so bad for him that he was so frightened of new people. What's interesting is that when I took him to a Meet 'n Greet once, he was fine - not as outgoing as the others, but certainly not terrified. Since I didn't expect that behavior from him initially, I never told my first sitter not to reach into the crate. He did do that and grabbed him by the collar and I'm sure that didn't help at all. By the time I found out he had done that, it was too late. Non-grey people just don't appreciate how sensitive these dogs can be and don't believe it even when told.

 

I'll suggest that the sitter take him for walks with them and maybe that will help to create a small bond between them. I'm not sure how soon she'll need to go out of town next.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

My approach is a bit different. I would have the person that comes simply grab a leash, if this doesnt get the hound out of the crate, then reach into the crate, clip on the leash and lead the hound outside to eliminate. I would also suggest that the person not allow the hound off the leash. This means the person will have to walk the hound in the yard. Reason being, if the hound doesnt want to come out of the crate, then probably when let outside, will not come back into the house. Have the person ignore the hound while on leash outside, even turning their back. Have some treats ready. Dont baby the hound. If the hound is having accidents in the house and needs to go out, then clip and go. No need to be gruff with the hound, but dont pamper the hound either. My current foster is a nervous guy, at first he didnt want to be near me, but after a few days of me just grabbing the collar and taking him outside, he relaxed. They usually will relax a bit as soon as you grab the collar. They are used to the fact that when in kennels, as soon as the trainer grabs the collar, they WILL go where the human says, so when they get into a home, the same mentality still exists. Like I said, there is no need to be rough with the guy, but you may have to be firm and pull him where you need him.

 

Chad

[Guest Patience]

I'll second what Greyt_dog_lover said: when we first brought Gracie home, she was too terrified of us to leave her crate. We had great success when we calmly clipped the leash on her collar and led her outside in a business-like manner. It did mean reaching into her crate, which could have made her even more anxious. But, instead she just followed. Once she got used to that and started to relax, we added the command "outside!" in a cheerful tone. Once we started using a dog-sitter, the sitter just had to say the command after opening the crate. Gracie was suspicious of the new person at first, but she went out. Maybe that would work for your former foster, too.

[Guest mirinaaronsmom]

Thanks for the comments. My sitter did do what Chad suggested and it made the hound even more frightened of him. Since I'm not there, I have no idea of whether he was too rough or what (I kind of doubt it because he's a really quiet, laid-back man). I also doubt he was babying him since he thought the dog was being disobedient instead of scared. Who knows? There was never a problem with him coming back inside and running right back into the crate. We tried using one of those slip leashes (a loop with a ring on the end of a rope) and that worked once and then the hound was afraid of that also - I think it's the reaching into the crate that's so scary for the dog. Also, I know my sitter mentioned trying to drag him across the floor to get him to the door (I forget whether he did that more than once). He had said he grabbed the dog under the belly and slid him to the door - that scared me too. He's a 90-lb hound! It was just a bad situation all around. I wish work didn't interfere with life - then I'd be home all the time with my hounds.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Ok your walker needs to be trained how to walk a stubborn dog. You don't put your face down by the scared dog (getting a nasty bite is one reason) and loop your hand below his belly which will cause even more fear. Have your walker simply grab the martingale collar like you would a suitcase. Slip your four fingers between the extra loop that tightens the collar, and simply put the dogs head up against your hip, and walk. This of course is what you need to do once you get the hound out of the crate. To get your hound out of the crate, yes the walker may need to physically drag the hound out of the crate, but after a few times of doing this, your hound will realize that 1)the walker is not going to eat him 2) he will be taken out of the crate if he likes it or not. I know this sounds mean, but really, do you want your boy sitting in his own elimination every day? A few times of being dragged out of the crate and he will relinquish the idea of hiding at the back of the crate.

 

Case in point, I foster and every single foster is afraid of the stairs. My house has stairs to go outside as well as between levels of the inside of the house. Fosters have no choice but to walk up and down stairs from day one in my house. My wife and I will not carry them up and down the stairs (unless there is a medical reason). So what happens, they balk and freeze at the top of the stairs, and again at the bottom. I grab the collar like a suitcase and DRAG them over the edge of the stairs. Is this mean, maybe, but after two or three times they realize that they are going to go down the stairs regardless of what they may want. I hold their heads against my hip the entire way down the stairs so they don't get out of control and fall, and at the same time they learn to trust me as I will not allow them to fall and they gain confidence from my holding them on the way down.

 

I explain the stairs routine so that you can understand that while these hounds have issues sometimes, they are not fragile and they will get over the fear. Should you coddle them, the fear will only get worse. All my fosters are able to do stairs without any assistance within 2-3 days. I would expect the fear to subside after a few days, once he realizes that the person taking him out of his crate is not going to hurt him. I would have the walker give him a treat as soon as she gets him out of the crate and again when he walks him and brings him into the house. He needs to be firm, but kind. As well as his voice needs to be cheery and happy at ALL TIMES. This is a must. Your hound must understand that this is not punishment in any way, and that he will be rewarded at the end of the "torture". It is not that uncommon for greyhounds to be fearful of men. Your walker should be sure not to make direct eye contact, and try not to move fast, or make loud noises. His voice should be kept low and calm.

 

Chad

Edited January 21, 2011 by Greyt_dog_lover

[MaryJane]

Is there any chance of not crating the dog and instead using an x-pen? You might want to see if this makes it any easier to grab the collar, get a leash on, and get the dog out the door.

[Batmom]

I would not use collars in the crate -- dangerous.

 

I would have the dog walker practice getting the dog out of his crate, out in the yard (ON LEASH ALWAYS), and back in the crate while the owner is there. Have the dog walker, NOT the owner, associate commands ("Let's go out!", "Back in, please") and rewards with the process. @ 10 times in a row, 1-2 sessions a day for at least 3 days. Then try when owner isn't home. If there is a problem, note what the problem is and go back to practicing.

[JohnF]

Send the short article in the link to the new owner. Greys are still open to normal dog reassurance behaviour.

http://www.canis.no/rugaas/onearticle.php?artid=1

 

My Peggy was like that and had to be pulled out of her bed area a couple of times at first. Approach calmly from the side, give calming signals of a quick lick to your nose, an exaggewrated yawn and look away. Gently attach collar and leash and use the come or go walkies command. The instant the dog begins to follow, slacken the leash a little and praise verbally.

 

The mentality behind it is that the dog then knows that you 'get' his concerns and that you can be trusted to do the right thing.

 

Good luck.