Guest barkdogs Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Hi all, Just wondering, for those of you who have AKC greyhounds: Do AKC greyhounds have the same incidence of dental disease as NGA hounds? Specifically, I am interested in the incidence of stomatitis, or as some refer to it, trench mouth. I was talking to a friend of mine who is a vet specializing in dentistry. He says he sees a lot of stomatitis in greys and that he figures it may be in part caused by what they are fed at the track and also in part the stresses of racing. I know some folks here have the AKC variety of greyhound and I am curious if your dogs suffer from this malady as commonly as the ex racers do. It does (according to one article I read) also occur in a few other breeds, notably king charles cavalier spaniels, maltese and huskies, so it could also have a genetic component. Stomatitis is where the mouth has a kind of auto immune reaction -- it can occur in dogs with relatively little dental disease. The gums ulcerate making eating (and life in general) painful. The only reliably effective treatment (according to my friend, and I defer to his experience) is pulling all the teeth. It is far more common in cats than in dogs--except for greyhounds and a few other breeds as noted above. This is in NO WAY posted to start a pros vs. cons of racing debate. I know that there are not a great many AKC hounds out there, especially compared to the numbers of NGA hounds, but I was curious for those of you who have AKC hounds if you ever deal with this malady. Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFullHouse Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I don't think it's necessarily caused by track food myself. Like humans, unless you can brush your teeth on a daily you're prone to dental disease. I do know some kennels give raw meaty bones to help racers clean their teeth but brushing an entire kennel of dogs teeth every day just isn't physically possible. I would imagine AKC hound owners brush their dogs teeth. Quote Judy, mom to Darth Vader, Bandita, And Angel Forever in our hearts, DeeYoGee, Dani, Emmy, Andy, Heart, Saint, Valentino, Arrow, Gee, Bebe, Jilly Bean, Bullitt, Pistol, Junior, Sammie, Joey, Gizmo, Do Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mcsheltie Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) As you said, stomatitis is an auto-immune disorder. If it is more common in NGA than AKC GHs it is because of genetics. Not diet or stress related. A bad diet and lack of dental care will cause periodontal disease, but not stomatitis. Edited January 8, 2011 by mcsheltie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KF_in_Georgia Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I heard a grey-savvy vet discussing dental disease in greyhounds and dismissing any influence a track diet might have on greyhounds' teeth by saying, "If dental problems are caused by a track diet, how do you explain Yorkies?" And he had a point. Yorkies have awful teeth--at least as bad as greyhounds--and lord knows they don't get a track diet. Quote Kathy and Q (CRT Qadeer from Fuzzy's Cannon and CRT Bonnie) and Jane (WW's Aunt Jane from Trent Lee and Aunt M); photos to come. Missing Silver (5.19.2005-10.27.2016), Tigger (4.5.2007-3.18.2016), darling Sam (5.10.2000-8.8.2013), Jacey-Kasey (5.19.2003-8.22.2011), and Oreo (1997-3.30.2006) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 How many greyhounds of either lineage actually have stomatitis as opposed to gingivitis? I've heard of only one in the last @ 10 years. Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubcitypam Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I heard a grey-savvy vet discussing dental disease in greyhounds and dismissing any influence a track diet might have on greyhounds' teeth by saying, "If dental problems are caused by a track diet, how do you explain Yorkies?" And he had a point. Yorkies have awful teeth--at least as bad as greyhounds--and lord knows they don't get a track diet. When I had yorkies my then vet said their horrible teeth were caused by "breeding that ended up cramming too many teeth into that teeny head". I agree that gingivitis and Stomatitis are two different things. None of my greys, including Harley that raced to well after 5 (but had the best trainer in the world that knuckled his dogs) have had bad teeth. Both my yorkies teeth were horrible. I had a grey that passed through my house come back through again as a foster after being gone 3 or so years. I was taken aback by how many of her teeth had been removed in the interim. It may have been necessary, but it brings to mind when I went to a dental clinic for me and they told me I needed 8 fillings. I drove back to OK to my previous dentist and he said I had two spots to watch. Other dentists the next 10 years agreed I didn't need those 8 fillings and I think a lot of that goes on with dog dentals may involve with vets doing whatever the market (and owner) will pay. Not to diss all vets, but I just have an uneasy feeling some take advantage of dentals...but that is just me being a crackpot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest barkdogs Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Yorkies and the brachycephalic breeds have bad teeth because of anatomy--if you have ever looked at the skull of a very small breed dog or of a brachycephalic (short push faced) dog you would be amazed they can eat and and draw breath at all! Gingivitis is not stomatitis--stomatitis is an auto immune reaction. Soldiers in WWI got it (hence the name "trench mouth") in the trenches and it is supposed to be exacerbated in stressful conditions. And this friend of mine who I work with at the U. Penn vet school says he has seen a lot in greyhounds--when I did a little research on it I found a number of articles on the high incidence in greyhounds. Good dental hygiene does not necessarily prevent it--it is different from gingivitis. So... just curious if any of you AKC folks have experienced this. I guess the fact that there are relatively few AKC hounds does make comparisons a bit difficult--and I wonder if there is indeed a genetic component. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeofNE Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) I'm sure it's genetics if it's true. Siamese cats have HORRIBLE teeth--no doubt due to breeding practices--one of mine lost 16 teeth before he was 4 years old--and I assure you, my Siamese cats eat the exact same diet and live the exact same life as my other cats-- And "the stress of racing" doesn't cause periodontal disease any more than it causes bone cancer, since NGA hounds who have never raced at all get the disease just as frequently as dogs who have full careers do. Edited January 9, 2011 by GeorgeofNE Quote Susan, Hamish, Mister Bigglesworth and Nikita Stanislav. Missing Ming, George, and Buck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieProf Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I really find myself wondering if it's that common a problem, if only because I've been on GT for over two years and don't recall reading anything about it, despite the countless health issues I've read threads on! Quote With Cocoa (DC Chocolatedrop), missing B for Beth (2006-2015)And kitties C.J., Klara, Bernadette, John-Boy, & Sinbad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest barkdogs Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Stress does not cause periodontal disease. Stomatitis is a different condition, and it's exacerbated by stress. I am not suggesting that the racing lifestyle causes it, only that it may (or may not) be a mitigating factor. If you google "Stomatitis in greyhounds," you will see that greyhounds are one of a handful of dog breeds that are affected with some frequency. This is also the experience of my c olleague at Penn vet school--he treats a fair amount of dogs, including greyhounds and his personal experience seems to mirror the statistics I have read about. I am simply curious if anyone who has experience with AKC hounds can tell me if they also have some incidence of the disease. I don't know how many folks on this forum have AKC hounds, but I figured it was a place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubcitypam Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) I am simply curious if anyone who has experience with AKC hounds can tell me if they also have some incidence of the disease. I don't know how many folks on this forum have AKC hounds, but I figured it was a place to start. I have placed a call to our resident Greytalk AKC breeder in NM and asked her to check in. Edited January 11, 2011 by Hubcitypam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest barkdogs Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Thanks Pam! That is so nice of you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elaine Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 OK... I'm an AKC greyhound breeder, who has done NGA adoptions for about 15 years. I never heard of stomatitis, so I looked it up. It's my understanding from reading a couple of veterinary articles that stomatitis may be caused by any number of things: infections, drug therapy and food have been implicated. However, that being said, a large percentage of cases are idiopathic, which means they don't know why they occur. In THIS ARTICLE, the 2nd paragraph states, "Primary generalized stomatitis, where no specific cause is detected, is likely associated with a profound host immune response to oral microbes associated with plaque. Generalized stomatitis can be secondary to a variety of other diseases." IOW, it is an immune response, not unlike an allergic reaction, to the microbes that are found in plaque. The article goes on to mention how to build a treatment plan. Other articles were found on the Scottish Terrier Club of America site http://www.stca.biz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=557:histopathology-of-canine-ulcerative-stomatitis-a-review-of-65-cases&catid=333:dental-care-and-issues&Itemid=100, Medicine.Net, and others. It's an interesting problem. BTW, the only case of stomatitis I have personally seen was in one of my cats, which was in kidney failure. Elaine @ DM Greyhounds http://www.dmgreyhounds.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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