Need Some Ideas

[Guest oldNELLIE]

Hi Everyone! There is something going on with Miss Nellie TIA for reading through a pretty long post.

 

I would say this started as much as 2 years ago. She has a mis-match of vague symptoms that don't really add up to anything. Here are some examples.

 

1. She drinks. A lot. Bowl fulls at a time.

2. She is hungry all the time. This has been the case since we brought her home. At the time she was very underweight and we always blamed it on that. But still, 3 years later, to say she is food motivated is a huge understatement.

3. Currently (and the impetus of this post) she is not sleeping at night. She is fine during the day and the evening, sleeps away on the couch but for the past couple of nights she is up by 1am and can not calm back down. She is nervous, jumpy, clingy, whiny and asks to go out again and again. I would ignore her requests to go out, but she *does* do a huge pee each time. Probably because she drinks such a **it ton of water. Last night we went out each hour from 1:30 until I finally got up for good at 7, and she did not really sleep at all during that time.

 

Some things I have thought of.

 

1. She is cold. We bought her pj's and she will not wear them. We cover her with blankets and she shakes them off. We keep our home at a reasonable temp (around 68-70 degrees) and it is uncomfortable and expensive for us to raise the heat more. It is definitely warm enough for humans and dogs to be fine.

2. She is under-stimulated. In the summer we go hiking, to soccer and kickball games and long walks but that can not happen this time of year. It is freezing, dark and they salt the roads like crazy, so even her walks (although not shorter) are much less comfortable.

3. It is medical. Here is where things get a little funny...

 

We have taken her to the vet for a variety of these reasons a few of times over the recent months. Although there has been no definite answer, here is what it is NOT.

 

1. Her kidneys are not failing

2. Her liver is not failing

3. She does not have Cushings or Addisons

4. She is not diabetic

5. She is not in any discernible pain

 

The question mark is her thyroid. We have had the more detailed test done twice and both times she came back at the very lowest of the appropriate greyhound values. The vet suggests that because the thyroid effects so much in the body, that a list of seemingly unrelated complaints could be a result of a thyroid imbalance. But if we start with the medication she will have to be on it forever, and technically she is still within a healthy range. At our last visit we left it as a wait and see.

 

Anyway, we are stumped. Last night she ate her dinner and drank a ton of water then threw everything up with in seconds. I thought I would give her stomach a break, but she was FRANTIC for more food. I fed her and she was fine until 1 this morning (see above). This has cost us $1000+ and we have zero answers. Nothing.

 

So...any thoughts?

[OwnedBySummer]

Sorry, I had suggested diabetes then I noticed it on your list of what it's not.

Edited December 8, 2010 by OwnedBySummer

[Remolacha]

Since you have ruled out most of the obvious causes, I would treat the thyroid. Yes, they have to stay on the meds for the rest of their life, but they are fairly cheap, and I have never heard of side effects.

[DevilDog]

I agree with trying thyroid meds..... you said yourslf that if she goes on them, she'll need them forever. Well, if that's what she needs, that's what she needs and you won't know until you try. If it's not working you can just take her off it.

 

Roscoe was on thyro-tabs and IIRC a months supply was $19 at my vet.

[Guest NHgreys]

Diabetes insipidus? (which is not the same as diabetes mellitus)

 

http://greytarticles.wordpress.com/medical-first-aid/adrenal/diabetis-insipidus%E2%80%93a-rare-disorder/

Edited December 8, 2010 by NHgreys

[Yamaha_gurl]

This may seem like a dumb question...but do dogs get bladder infections?

[greyhead]

What is the problem with being on thyroid drugs forever? They're very cheap, easy to administer (tiny pills), and they make a world of difference to anyone who needs them!

[TheFullHouse]

Here is something I just learned recently, dogs with an upset stomach will drink a lot. Could it be something as simple as a food allergy? I don't know what you feed her but may be try a grain free food and see if that helps. If it's not that, I'd be tempted to try the thyroid medication.

[Guest oldNELLIE]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone!

 

What is the problem with being on thyroid drugs forever? They're very cheap, easy to administer (tiny pills), and they make a world of difference to anyone who needs them!

 

It's not that taking the drugs forever that's the problem. If she needs them then that's fine. I guess I was hesitant to give her something that she may not need that she would still have to take forever. I was under the impression that if we start with the drugs and her thyroid is not the problem it would "stop working" as a result of the drugs which would make her need them whether she did from the start or not. (How's THAT for a run on sentence ). Is that not the case?

 

Also, does anyone have a dog that is in the normal range but still needs meds? If not, any ideas about what else it might be that we haven't thought of?

[Guest oldNELLIE]

This may seem like a dumb question...but do dogs get bladder infections?

 

Oh, yeah...I forgot to respond to this. They can, but this is not a UTI or a bladder infection.

[greyhead]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone!

 

What is the problem with being on thyroid drugs forever? They're very cheap, easy to administer (tiny pills), and they make a world of difference to anyone who needs them!

 

It's not that taking the drugs forever that's the problem. If she needs them then that's fine. I guess I was hesitant to give her something that she may not need that she would still have to take forever. I was under the impression that if we start with the drugs and her thyroid is not the problem it would "stop working" as a result of the drugs which would make her need them whether she did from the start or not. (How's THAT for a run on sentence ). Is that not the case?

 

Also, does anyone have a dog that is in the normal range but still needs meds? If not, any ideas about what else it might be that we haven't thought of?

No, giving med doesn't make the thyroid stop working if it still wants to work. That's why giving it to one who doesn't need it can result in a thyroid that's running too high. As low as your dog's numbers are, that's unlikely in your case.!

 

I think the key is in your OP, where you said that twice your dog has tested at the very bottom of the ranges. There's something called the Standard Error of Measure that applies to every measurement. It means that none of them are necessarily perfect measures; the *actual* number may be slightly higher or slightly lower. From that point of view, your Miss Nellie may actually be functioning *below* the normal range, so you can't really relax in the knowledge that her numbers are definitely within normal limits. Granted, the actual number may be higher. But then we get into the area of "individual differences." Not all critters, including humans, function well near the very top or the very bottom of a range since not all critters are identical. There are differences in each individual that may mean they need more or less than most others of their species. If I were you, I'd try Nellie on the medicine and see if there's improvement; that will tell you a lot. But I'm not you, of course, so I'd advise that you take your thoughts and concerns back to the vet and talk it out until you feel persuaded one way or the other.

 

Whatever the problem is, I hope you get to the bottom of it. It sounds like Miss Nellie needs something!

.

Edited December 9, 2010 by greyhead

[Batmom]

One last thing you might try. Bit of trouble but it's cheap.

 

If you currently feed commercial food, take her off that and give her homecooked or raw for 2-3 weeks; no salt, no vitamins, no supplements of any type. I would start with just one protein/fat source; I like beef, because it has enough fat to have some calories. Small - medium girl will probably eat 1.2 - 1.5 lbs/day raw/precooked weight assuming no bone. If you want to add a carb source, then 1 cup cooked crumbled beef and scant cup cooked rice twice a day (total 2 cups each per day).

 

 

Other than that, I would keep track of how much water she drinks -- over a certain amount, you do start looking at diabetes insipidus. Would also be sure to check her blood pressure.

 

Hugs and best luck.

[duncan41]

If it's not related to food, I would go back and explore the throid issue. I heard Dr. Couto address the thyroid - to-treat-or-not-to-treat controversy in Greyhounds. The bottom line? Dr. Couto stated: "I treat dogs, not test results."