Leash Reactivity

[christinepi]

Tracker, whom we've had for 9 months now, goes to organized day care for off leash play time twice a week with a variety of breeds and has never had shown signs of aggression there. We do this because we live in a relatively remote area and want him to get his fill on socialization and off leash running. We also walk him 1.5 to 2h a day on the non day care days. We mostly walk him right around where we live; there are some rural off leash dogs around, with whom he gets along, but he'll never encounter other people walking their dogs. What disturbs me, is what he always does when he sees a new dog, on leash or off, when we drive to the nearest beach or into town; he does this with dogs, horses, alpacas, cats, and goats also, btw, if not as intensely: he goes onto a different planet, and completely focusses on the other dog/animal, and so badly wants to get to them that he'll try to hurl himself at them and into the air when he feels the leash holding him back (the goats, behind their fence, find this a rather fascinating behavior). Sometimes he'll initiate this with play bowing. To other dog owners all of this looks rather frightening, and some of their dogs have, understandably, been very put off or even been scared by such rude behavior. There never have been incidents of actual biting or snapping. To me, who's a novice dog owner, this seems overall more frustration rather than actual aggression (even though he has growled, once, for 1/2 a second), because he does the same thing with other species, too.

 

Obviously I've learned to stay clear of any strange dogs and warn oncoming owners. But it's unsettling and inappropriate. And far from ideal. What can I do to help him with this? It doesn't seem undersocialization is the issue. Is it just training? I'm in the process of finding a trainer to help me with this, but I'm always trying to get different peoples' inputs. The first thing, it seems to me, would be finding a way to get his attention, and work from there, but that, I find almost impossible to do in general. What is it like for other Grey owners? Are your dogs equally often "spaced out" (not just in a situation as described above--all it takes for Tracker is a buzzing insect or something other tiny little thing that's distracting and he's GONE mentally. It's so hard to train anything if I can't get him to listen (I do all sorts of training with him, clicker, obedience, look at me, leave it etc, and he's attentive while treats are around, but otherwise...)

 

I guess ultimately I'd like to know whether this is all totally normal for a Grey, and that with time, he'll let me more into his world and head... and btw, otherwise he's a fabulous dog who's extremely mellow and polite in the house.

[Guest borzoix4]

What type of leash are you using on these walks, and what type of collar?

[Guest Giselle]

Welcome to the world of reactive dogs It's a fun fun world

 

Several things:

- If you're relying on treats to maintain your dogs attention in very normal settings and things like a buzzing insect are distracting him, you may need to practice more diligently until he has generalized the behaviors and don't require as many treats. You want to get him on an intermittent, "gambler's" ratio of treats, where the frequency of treats as rewards is totally random - meaning, you don't need treats on you 24/7.

- Teach focused, relaxation behaviors. A few: 1) Long down-stay 2) extended eye contact ("Focus") 3) Relax on a mat 4) slow blinking/relaxation of the facial muscles (this is a little harder, but I can write steps down if you're interested). The key with these behaviors is that you will slowly phase out treats so that the dog is intrinsically rewarded by calmness and relaxation, even in very distracting environments.

- Teach impulse control behaviors. A small sample: 1) Wait 2) Give 3) Leave It 4) Back up. These, as with all other behaviors, must be practiced often and in every situation, slowly increasing difficulty with time. These behaviors, too, must eventually have the treats phased out so that the reward is whatever the dog wanted in the first place and the behavior is automatic. For example, with "Wait", you'd practice at the front door before you leave for your walk. The end behavior is a dog who automatically waits before being released to walk through the door.

--> Make sure the relaxation and impulse control behaviors are automatic and don't require constant treating!

- Teach Look at That!. It's a game that turns your dog's natural desire to stare into a focusing game. It's simple. Click/treat your dog for quick looks at the other dog. Eventually, the dog chooses to focus on you rather than the other dog, but he still acknowledges and is aware that the other dog is there. It just isn't a big deal anymore. A video of two dogs doing LAT to each other:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v474/LSophie/Videos/?action=view&current=MVI_3850.mp4

 

Above all, practice and patience. Don't feel overwhelmed. Take each behavior at a time. If you're pushed for time, I recommend one SOLID relaxation behavior (relax on a mat, perhaps), a few SOLID impulse control behaviors that you can use anywhere (wait and give, for example), and start teaching LAT. It's a crucial tool that you can use throughout your life to get your dog's focus back on you. Once you have it, you can then control your dog and have him meet the other animal with relaxation and calmness.

[christinepi]

To Borzoix: I use a 2" wide martingale and a 6 foot leather leash.

 

To Giselle: this all makes sense. One thing I didn't mention, however, is that LAT runs into a problem with him right off the bat, because it doesn't even take the distraction of another dog to make him "leave": it could be absolutely "nothing" (to me, of course), like just staring off into the middle distance, and I could wrap a 2lb slab of grass fed Sirloin around his muzzle and he wouldn't notice. He's spat out or completely ignored many treats in such situations, no matter what they are: hot dogs, liver, you name it. He's seems unreachable. But, that said, I'll probably just have to start with teeny tiny steps in situations where I know he'll love a treat and build from there in the direction you suggest (I finally got behind teaching him Wait, Give and Leave it much more consistently since he growled when I tried to take away a bone he found on the street last week, something he's only done two o three times before, and he's taken well to the training).

 

Re: "Teach focused, relaxation behaviors. A few: 1) Long down-stay 2) extended eye contact ("Focus") 3) Relax on a mat 4) slow blinking/relaxation of the facial muscles (this is a little harder, but I can write steps down if you're interested).":

 

Does 4) refer to my face or his? Or both? And yes, if you don't mind and have the time, I'm curious how that works.

 

Should I avoid getting in the vicinity of other dogs when he's on leash altogether for the time being as to avoid triggers? Or is that depriving him of something (on the other hand, none of the involved seem to be getting anything out of it other than frustration or being scared)?

 

He's also not interested in toys, balls or tug games, unfortunately.

 

And lastly, out of curiosity, is this just the typical leash bound frustration that people talk about?

 

What is so weird, too, is that he's otherwise such a relaxed dog, being a greyhound and all. But leash reactivity knows no bounds, I guess...

[cleptogrey]

i personally find the 2" collars are beautiful but decorative- i use them for meet and greets. 1" is a good size where a dog will feel something at the end of a leash, and that's for your sake. try a thinner collar,make sure it fits properly- when it is under his chin-top of the neck-behind the ears there should be a 1-2" section of collar between the 2 rings. the rings should NOT meet. i find if the collar is snug when you slip it over his head and when you remove it- go gently sometimes one ear at a time. glad to hear you are using a leather leash- the best!

 

lots of good positive training can be done to correct the situation. i find working in a class w/ a couple of experience teachers around works well for me and my dogs. the experience of trainers who know people and can read their personalities as well as dogs and thier needs is always productive. akc and apdt are two organizations who have info about schools and trainers.

 

be patient and positive. oh, i used to have a saluki who barked and growled at cows and horses when he was in the car! yes, they are sighthounds!

[Remolacha]

One thing I did with Fletcher is switch from a collar to a harness. I was concerned that he would hurt his neck twisting, lunging, I wouldn't be surprised to see him do a back flip . This also seemed to calm him a bit.

 

He does well with 'wait', 'leave it', pretty good with 'nevermind' (i.e., pay no attention to the man behind the curtain )

 

I've had no luck at all with LAT. As you said, he goes to another planet.

[Guest Giselle]

Your description of Tracker tuning you out is not at all uncommon. In fact, it's TOO common, especially in dogs who (like you mentioned in your first post) tend to live in less populated areas. Because where you live is less populated and less trafficked by dogs and people alike, small things to an urban-raised dog can be quite distracting to another. This is also why Tracker's leash reactivity isn't very surprising. In fact, a large number of reactive dogs I've dealt with (including ones who've inflicted serious injuries) grew up in more remote, less densely populated areas, including my Ivy. It's just a lack of access to distracting environments in which to practice.

 

Indeed, that's most likely why Tracker is tuning you out: he just hasn't had enough practice. And you're absolutely right! The solution is to take small steps and stay within his comfort zone, or below his threshold. A dog's threshold, in this case, would be defined as the distance he can approach a trigger before he loses focus on you. Once that focus is lost, you're past the threshold and all you need to do is move back a couple steps and work on whatever behavior you need. As long as you're working consistently below threshold, you can gradually increase difficulty by going closer to the trigger or asking for more relaxed/impulse control behaviors. Eventually, if you do this briskly and efficiently, it shouldn't take you too long before Tracker is able to focus on you right up against a strange dog or goat or horse. And I honestly attribute much of the success I've experienced with Ivy and other dogs to LAT. When it's taught and applied correctly, it's an invaluable tool because it turns the dog's natural desire to stare into a cue to focus on you. Rather than physically forcing your dog's head towards your face and battling your way through a "watch me", you use LAT to free shape a relaxed "watch me" that the dog generates by himself. So, he chooses to focus on you rather than the other dog.

 

Relaxed facial muscles is basically an extension of prolonged eye contact. If you can get your dog sitting/down, ask for a long "watch me". Reward in slow, graduated intervals (so, his "watch me" should be pretty solid prior to this exercise). Eventually, his facial muscles will relax and he'll blink much more slowly or his eyes will droop. I forego a clicker for this and use a soft "Yes!". Mark the behavior/treat. Repeat. Eventually, you can put a cue to it. It all begins with strong eye contact behavior, so just start from there

 

And, yep, you're right again! For now, avoid triggers. If you run into them and your dog can't focus on you, he isn't learning anything good. If you run into triggers, block his view with your body and just walk away or wait behind a corner for the trigger to past. And yes, you're correct again. This sounds very much like normal leash frustration. It's a big problem amongst frequent dog park goers. Good luck!

[Guest Giselle]

Also forgot to add: Teach LAT indoors with a neutral object, like a pillow you tossed into the air. As soon as Tracker whips his head to look at it, click!/treat. Again and again and again until he voluntarily whips his head to the side just to get a click/treat from you. Then, you can put a cue to it and take it to the streets. Otherwise, it's very difficult to train from the ground up in distracting environments.

[christinepi]

Giselle,

 

I'll try the pillow toss.

 

I bought Jane Killion's book "The impossible dog" exactly for the attention deficit problem and to help teach him that offering behaviors will get him stuff and therefore convince him that paying attention pays off. However, I quickly ran into issues with even that: he's figured out the c/t connection as such, and I've even tought him to Go Settle, but I KNOW he hasn't made the connection to the overall picture, meaning he's not generalizing, which becomes apparent when I click anything else he does randomly. Go Settle was easy for him because he lies down relatively easy anyway, and it was easy to have him step on the pad. But beyond that, no dice. He'll touch things with his muzzle on command or voluntarily, but nothing else. I realize Greys are less likely to do offer things than, say, a Lab or Border Collie, since Greys are supposed to think independently and rely much less on cooperation with their handlers. But even Greys can be taught to offer behaviors, I have no doubt, but I don't have the experience yet. I'm sure our connection would improve very quickly if the light bulb went on.

 

The reason I wrote the above paragraph is that I can see this coming that he'll look at the pillow or whatever else I throw/do to get him to look ONCE and then lose interest exactly because he doesn't get the connection between his behavior at the very moment he heard the click. But I'll definitely try it. It's amazing how one's creativity is challenged with dogs, at least for somebody as inexperienced as me. It often feels like I'm just blundering about...

[Guest Giselle]

You're right; greys, as a whole, are not very operant by nature. However, we can build them up to a certain point. I was not a picture-perfect trainer when I got Giselle, and Giselle was not operant by nature, either. For years, we didn't do much training. But when I finally honed my skills and got my timing/criteria accurate, I was able to free-shape this:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v474/LSophie/Videos/?action=view&current=GiselleJump.mp4

What made this even MORE difficult was the fact that Giselle did not even know *how* to jump. If you lay a broom across the floor, Giselle won't step over it Yet, free shaping is a powerful tool and, when you learn how to use it, you can teach anything!

 

I bring up the Giselle demo because it illustrates a truth that we all acknowledge but don't quite know how to deal with: It's almost always the human, not the dog. What may help with Tracker is spending some time free shaping behaviors that he already knows how to do. For example, if Tracker already knows "down", you can spend some time free shaping it so that the emphasis is on offering behaviors vs. learning a new, unknown behavior. One of the issues with free shaping is that you need to teach the dog a "default" behavior if he doesn't offer one already. This way, the dog always has a behavior he can 'default' upon when he doesn't know what else to offer you; it makes free shaping more accessible and less frustrating. Giselle's default is "Sit". For now, work on Tracker's default and make sure it's a behavior he already knows. Shaping should come much more easily!

[krissy]

I'm sorry, I don't want to hijack the thread or anything, but since you mention shaping behaviours (and I can't PM yet), maybe you can give me a tip or two. I'm used to the much more operant type breeds, and also puppies which tend to be more enthusiastic and shape easier (for me anyway). We've only had Summit about 6 weeks, and he's learned come, wait (I'm bad and use this both to mean stay and leave this treat on the floor until I say it's okay), and we're working on "watch me". Sit and down are a completely different story. Summit doesn't lure into positions. He'll follow the treat right until the point he needs to sit to keep his eyes on it and then he'll just walk away. It's like he loses interest. Luring for a down has also been problematic. If I just lure to the floor he just drops that beautiful long neck of his to the ground and refuses to even bend his elbows a little bit. With other dogs I've used my leg bent at a 45 degree angle or so and lured them UNDER my leg which forces them to get down on their belly and army crawl under to get to the treat. Summit won't do this. Once again he loses interest. And he loses interest very early on. I thought at first I could give him the treat if he just bent his elbows and then later only if he put his front legs down (play bow like) and so on, but he barely bends his elbows he gives up that early on. Any tips for sit or down would be awesome.

[Guest june]

To get Summit to lay down, sit, etc. try catching him in the act. Watch him and when you observe him start to do the action (sit, down, etc) "click" to mark (or, I prefer to use a word not often used such as "sweet" to mark the action)attach the command and reward when he finishes the action. I often call this the lazy way to train and I have found it (along with lots of patience) works well with my greys.

Good luck,

june

[Guest cwholsin]

I'm sorry, I don't want to hijack the thread or anything, but since you mention shaping behaviours (and I can't PM yet), maybe you can give me a tip or two. I'm used to the much more operant type breeds, and also puppies which tend to be more enthusiastic and shape easier (for me anyway). We've only had Summit about 6 weeks, and he's learned come, wait (I'm bad and use this both to mean stay and leave this treat on the floor until I say it's okay), and we're working on "watch me". Sit and down are a completely different story. Summit doesn't lure into positions. He'll follow the treat right until the point he needs to sit to keep his eyes on it and then he'll just walk away. It's like he loses interest. Luring for a down has also been problematic. If I just lure to the floor he just drops that beautiful long neck of his to the ground and refuses to even bend his elbows a little bit. With other dogs I've used my leg bent at a 45 degree angle or so and lured them UNDER my leg which forces them to get down on their belly and army crawl under to get to the treat. Summit won't do this. Once again he loses interest. And he loses interest very early on. I thought at first I could give him the treat if he just bent his elbows and then later only if he put his front legs down (play bow like) and so on, but he barely bends his elbows he gives up that early on. Any tips for sit or down would be awesome.

 

When we tried teaching Hermes to 'sit' and 'down' he didn't lure either. What we ended up doing was putting his body in position and rewarding with the word and a treat. For sit, that meant gently scooping up behind his back legs which causes his butt to lower to the floor (very gently, you don't want to frighten him). To do this easily is really a two person job (very hard to be at his back end and deliver the words at the right time) where one does the scooping and the other does the verbal commands. To teach down, you can use the 'sit' once he's doing it pretty well. Get him to a sit and if he won't lure down, you can move his front legs out until he lies down. It took him maybe 3 days to learn both sit and down this way. Those were his first 'formal' commands other than 'wait' and 'up' for getting into the car.

 

We combined this way of teaching down with using the word in situations where he lays down on his own (going to bed, etc.). For the sit, he never did it on his own until we taught him so there was no way to catch him in the act with that one! IMO shaping doesn't need to be used with every command. Sometimes when the training relationship is new it can be easier for the dog to understand if you just put them in the position they're asking for! Shaping and clicker training was completely lost on Hermes when we first started training (he may do better with it now that he's got the hang of what training means 'oh, she wants me to do things now').

 

Hope this helps!

Edited December 7, 2010 by cwholsin

[krissy]

Thanks! I think this is the route we may have to go. I had avoided it until this point because some folks had warned against it (how forcing them into a position doesn't gain trust, etc.) but luring isn't working and we don't really catch him in the act often enough for him to have caught on. I'm a student so I sit down to study for a couple hours at a time. So he lies down when I start studying and he doesn't get up again until I do. I guess I could continually call him to get him up and then catch him when he lies down again, but he always looks so comfy and I know how much my boyfriend hates being dragged out of bed, so I can only imagine Summit doesn't appreciate it either!

[Guest Duke]

I went through the same thing recently and I am still working through it. I am not an expert but message me if you want my take on it.

[Guest Giselle]

Just wondering, since he's losing interest so quickly, what kind of treats are you using and do you train on a full stomach? You might want to train during the mornings or evenings when you know he's hungry and use *REALLY* great treats like real, plain-boiled chicken breast or pork or beef or lamb, etc. Nothing beats real meat! I can't recall if you use a clicker or not, but do you know what "loading" the clicker means? Even if you don't use a clicker, I would recommend "loading" Summit before you try teaching Down. It's a way to pique interest because then he knows that he can earn the treat. He just has to perform some type of behavior to do so, and he should make that connection fairly quickly if you've built a pretty solid foundation with him. Otherwise, I recommend 1) loading him 2) holding the treat on the ground, making sure your dog can smell it but can't eat it 3) waiting for any inclination to move into a Down. Summit holding his head down is a good first step. Putting his weight on his haunches is a good step. Anything you can get from him is a good step! Keep rewarding those tiny good steps and he'll put it together very quickly. At the beginning stage, almost anything mildly close to the end behavior should be rewarded.

 

As for "Sit", Giselle is a natural non-sitter - has never naturally sat in her life. I could not "fold" her because she was also fairly sensitive and balked when I tried it. Many dogs do, I've found. I would recommend starting from a Down --> Sit by luring upwards (yes, I know, I lure for this!). It works to create a sloppy sit, at first, but your dog will eventually generalize and offer a "sit" from a stand. S/he just has to get used to the awkward position, first.

[krissy]

Thought about clicker training him and I do have a clicker for my rabbits, but was hoping to do it without the clicker if possible since I haven't trained other behaviours with the clicker and don't want to have to do it for future ones (don't know if I would have to or not... using two training techniques seems like it migt be confusing). I have noticed that I often use "good!" when I get what I'm asking for, so I could potentially just turn that into my "click".

 

I've tried using very tempting rewards. I've used left overs from dinner (chicken, turkey, beef, pork, whatever), I've even tried luring with a little piece of raw meat which he just goes CRAZY for... but as soon as I use it to try to lure him he just loses interest and walks away. I guess he doesn't understand the concept. But I think he does get the concept of "try to do what I want, you get a treat" because I've taught him other behaviours (come, stay, watch me). I guess we'll see if he'll let us position him, if not we'll just do little baby steps for shaping.

[cleptogrey]

haven't met a dog who didn't go bonkers for HOT DOGS!!!!

[Guest jaws4evr]

It's hard to understand these things without seeing them, but does he seem like he's going into prey mode, or is he just ultra excited?

 

One thing I liked to do with the excited ones is take them to an ultra busy place in the city, with bikers, joggers, runners, etc, dog walkers, busy urban bike paths work well. Take yoruself on a brisk walk on this path, and do not stop for anyone. don't let the dog greet, sniff, be pet by, etc anyone. Just march him right on past no matter how he fusses.

 

There's only so many times he can have that reaction when nothing ever happens and he never gets to interact with what he's directing his behavior to. He should learn that most of the people/dogs/goats/whatever he sees out in the world, nothing happens with them anywyas so there's nothing to get all wound up about. A kid can only get excited about an icecream truck so many times, especially if he's in a huge parking lot FULL of icecream trucks.

 

Flooding can have some uses IMO!

[Guest Giselle]

Hmm, what you described is a coping mechanism for when you don't want to deal with the growlies, so you just move faster and farther away from the trigger. It's not quite flooding.

 

Flooding involves presenting the trigger to the dog at full force so that you *will* be initiating the barking/growling/hurling-himself-around/fiasco. Flooding involves doing this full-force-presentation until the trigger at full force loses its significance and it no longer solicits any reaction. Flooding for reactive dogs, IMO, would look something more like the CAT program (Constructional Aggression Treatment). Flooding, in my opinion, wouldn't work with an aggressive or reactive dog unless that reactivity is based off fear, and, even then, flooding is a very contentious method that should only be used as a last resort by someone who is ridiculously familiar with all its subtleties (which is why, I admit, I'm not a huge fan of CAT). And, even then, flooding puts the animal under significant stress, which is not conducive to learning - especially for fearful animals. Just my two cents.

 

Marching past triggers is something I use, too, when I don't have enough time or space to work on "Focus" with my dogs, but it doesn't teach the animal anything about how to deal with triggers. It's a good emergency tool, but it should be used in tandem with behavioral modification that breaks the maladaptive emotional response, too.

[Guest cleo570]

I have to agree 100% with Giselle (Hi Giselle! Long time no talk!) We both have very reactive Dobies... I had a "professional trainer" attempt the flooding bit with Bogart, which made situations much, much worse. After 2 years of consistent focus work, Bogey is acceptable on a leash - not great, and we still give other dogs a wide berth, but it is no longer a battle on every walk.

[Guest Giselle]

It can be done It may take awhile, but it can be done and the results are long-lasting. Ivy is *phenomenal* around other dogs now. I have a hard time convincing people that the dog who's staring at my face and ignoring other passerbys is actually extremely dog aggressive ;] Christinepi, how is it going? I imagine you've run into some road bumps as it's all part of the learning process, but I don't want you to give up; any news to share?

[christinepi]

It can be done It may take awhile, but it can be done and the results are long-lasting. Ivy is *phenomenal* around other dogs now. I have a hard time convincing people that the dog who's staring at my face and ignoring other passerbys is actually extremely dog aggressive ;] Christinepi, how is it going? I imagine you've run into some road bumps as it's all part of the learning process, but I don't want you to give up; any news to share?

 

Well, I got myself "Feisty Fido" and "Control Unleashed" and a private trainer whom I like. We've had one session (to get to know each other a bit) so far. She, the trainer, fortunately shares the same wavelength about the books/approach to how to handle a leash reactive dog. So far, I've been working on "watch", and "Doggie Zen" (the latter indoors); outdoors, I've started using only high value treats instead of the usual boring biscuits, and man, does that make a difference. I've noticed that he'll now quickly reorient towards me when distracted, by calling his name softly, or clucking, or just giving him a short gentle leash tug while saying his name (meaning I'll release right away so that it's still his choice to respond by turning--he's not being tugged towards me at all) to get his attention. As soon as I see his attention move away from the interesting object/sight, I c/t. This all works really nicely BELOW when it's below threshold (no UNKNOWN dog sightings) AND when he is in his familiar environment, whereas before he ignored me no matter what, so that's good news. In the long run, I want to incorporate Look At That.

 

On the other hand, he can still get in a head space even on familiar ground, like today, where there's no canine or other critter involved, just some smell or whatever, and he'll tune out the click and the hot dog reward--I can touch his nose with the hot dog, it will elicit no interest, he's not even looking, whereas normally his head will whip around when he hears the click and he'll devour the treat. That's still quite a concern, this total tune out and lack of interest in food, but maybe with LAT and just lots of repetitions of default behaviors this will fade.

 

I also started to work on deepening his understanding on his default behaviors (down, wait, and one day, watch...). AND I finally figured out how I can get him to play with me, which is so exciting since he has no interest in toys, fetch or tug games, and I never knew how I could get him to engage with me in a playful way (other than playing with him on the sofa when he'll play mouth me and we just goof around a bit): I bought this real coyote tail online, tied a string to it and together we go bonkers in the back yard. He'll turn into a crazy dog and really seems to be playing with ME while he's doing zoomies, always coming back to me (at 30mph), stopping and then I run away from him again with the tail and he starts chasing me all over. It's hilarious.

 

So it's clear that being below threshold is all important. I know I'm on the right path will all this, but it's going to take awhile. But I've already seen little light bulbs go off here and there, which is adorable and satisfying. He's my first dog, so any little progress feels like a big step forward not only in training but at the same time in communication!

 

We'll see the trainer again next week and we'll start working outside with him.

[Guest Giselle]

Great steps forward

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. Effective training is not so much about teaching cool tricks or rock solid behaviors but deepening and strengthening human-dog communication. After that, everything else follows. After all, that's where a lot of the controversy stems from, right? How best to establish a deep-rooted type of communication with your dog (and, wow, are there a lot of opinions on that )

 

Don't worry about tuning you out for now. In distracting environments (and yes, just stepping outdoors is distracting!), you have to dial down your criteria and up your rate of reinforcement. Indoors, your pup may be able to give you a 5-minute-long focus without a treat, but, outdoors, a 30-second-long focus deserves two treats. Also, how long have you been doing "Doggie Zen"/watch me?

 

Even with Ivy, a naturally operant dog, her prolonged focus didn't really start kicking in until a few months of rigorous practice in every environment possible with all kinds of stresses. It takes time for a dog to familiarize itself with an environment and to develop the mental capacity to "bounce back" from stresses, like strange dogs, strange people, cars, and smells. Over time, all of that becomes much more efficient and streamlined and the dog "bounces back" much more quickly, but it's a lot of repetition and incremental successes You'll get there! Keep it up!

[christinepi]

Great steps forward

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. Effective training is not so much about teaching cool tricks or rock solid behaviors but deepening and strengthening human-dog communication. After that, everything else follows. After all, that's where a lot of the controversy stems from, right? How best to establish a deep-rooted type of communication with your dog (and, wow, are there a lot of opinions on that )

 

Don't worry about tuning you out for now. In distracting environments (and yes, just stepping outdoors is distracting!), you have to dial down your criteria and up your rate of reinforcement. Indoors, your pup may be able to give you a 5-minute-long focus without a treat, but, outdoors, a 30-second-long focus deserves two treats. Also, how long have you been doing "Doggie Zen"/watch me?

 

"Doggie Zen" I've only done once so far, and I also did the exercise you've recommended with prolonged eye contact/feeding treats until his eyes soften once (we did the latter exercise for ca 2-3 minutes--I stopped before his attention started wandering). So we're pure beginners. "Watch" we've been doing for a while, more so outdoors than indoors. He'll offer it frequently on walks, particularly when he's gotten rid off the first burst of energy and has more attention to spare, so I treat that often (about every third time); and I'll ask him for it, too. As far as the "Watch" goes, I've only been doing that for 3-4 seconds at a time; now I'm realizing, that, too, can be extended (duh). What's still operating with me is the concern that has been floating around dog behavior theory that direct, prolonged eye contact can be considered provocative for dogs--I'm slowly beginning to let go of that idea (in the right context, of course).