Help, Need Suggestions To Take With Me

[Guest luvdogs]

Hi; I have been on and off here over the past few months trying to figure out what the heck is going on with my boy...

 

Here is our timeline...

 

-After his stay at the kennel (beginning of Aug), watery diaherria - had a stool and urine sample - nothing found, but we panacured him anyways - he was on pasta and ground beef for about a month.

-Slowly started to put him back on dog food - he was sick again within a few days

-Decided to put him back on cooked hamburger and pasta

-Slowly integrated dog food again - sick again within about a week

-Put him back on cooked hamburger and pasta

-Slowly switched him over to Orijen Regional Red - thinking it might be poultry?

He has been on that for a couple of weeks and bad watery poop again - obviously he is pretty sick - he was up 6 times last night to go out - came home today at lunch and he had watery poop in his crate and his bed was completely soaked with urine.

 

We are just about at our wits end, I don't know what else to do for him. This is starting to impact our family's quality of life. We can't go anywhere for more than an hour or so without coming home to a mess in his crate, then I have to wash hhim up, clean his crate etc. I love my boy to death, but this isn't good. If you have any suggestions I would gladly take them along to our appt tonight. I am NOT leaving there tonight without blood work or antibiotics or something!!! Thanks!

[Yamaha_gurl]

My grey had soft poop on pasta, how about trying rice? But make sure it's fully fully cooked...almost mushy. I read somewhere on here that if it's not fully cooked, it will make soft poops.

[turbotaina]

How many courses of panacur did you run and how often? Frequently, parasites won't show up in a fecal, but that doesn't mean that they're not infected. I'd probably do a long course of Panacur to start.

 

Have you tried giving him a home cooked diet or grain free kibble? Some dogs don't do well with grain in their kibble, so I'd look at that, too. Some folks have had really good luck switching to a raw diet.

 

Has he been on a round of flagyl at all?

[Guest luvdogs]

As for the rice - I forgot to mention that the rice was in with the pasta. We did two rounds of Panacur, but we haven't done the flagyl yet - I am definitely going to mention that. I think the Regional Red is grain free, so that is what he is on now and he is still sick. Does anyone thing that blood work is warranted??

 

Thanks.

[greyhead]

It could be an intestinal infection. To find out, they'd have to run a culture-and-sensitivity test on the poop rather than just check it for parasites. Btw, is the poop an orange-ish or yellow color? Does it smell worse than poop usually smells? (Doing a C&S on our Spencer's poop saved his life. Turned out he had a Clostridium infection. We wasted a lot of time changing foods and trying things like beet pulp to firm the poop.) Giving Flagyl may help. But if it has gone on too long already, other antibiotics may be necessary. Only a C&S will tell you for sure.

 

ETA: It's telling that this happened after a kennel stay. They can pick up Clostridium from dirt and from other dogs' or animals' poop, for instance.)

Edited November 2, 2010 by greyhead

[Guest Diablo]

Hi,

one of our foster dogs (Harry) had also a problem with his intestins. His poop was very watery and came out with a lot of presure (sorry if this is a bit too explicite , but don't now how to discribe it otherwise).

After lots of blood, stool and urine test the results where a combination of SIBO (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth) and idioplastic colitis (hope I got the translation right).

He had to go on doxyciclyne and salozopirine (some kind of sulfamide). and had to change his kibble to Eukanuba Intestinal

Harry got a lot better, but in moments of stress f.e. going on a walk with a whole bunch of greys, or in a non familiare area, I had to be aware of the explosive diarrhea.

 

Hope your pooch gets better soon

[Guest luvdogs]

It could be an intestinal infection. To find out, they'd have to run a culture-and-sensitivity test on the poop rather than just check it for parasites. Btw, is the poop an orange-ish or yellow color? Does it smell worse than poop usually smells? (Doing a C&S on our Spencer's poop saved his life. Turned out he had a Clostridium infection. We wasted a lot of time changing foods and trying things like beet pulp to firm the poop.) Giving Flagyl may help. But if it has gone on too long already, other antibiotics may be necessary. Only a C&S will tell you for sure.

 

ETA: It's telling that this happened after a kennel stay. They can pick up Clostridium from dirt and from other dogs' or animals' poop, for instance.)

Thanks for the info. His poop is a dark and more brown than yellow. Very loose stool, more like a puddle than a stool. Yes, it stinks really badly.

[Guest Stripeyfan]

This sounds exactly like what we've gone through with Kelly. His problems started in January when he came down with what we thought was a tummy upset. A month of big D and countless vet visits later he was finally found to have a massive roundworm infestation. Although we cleared that up, EVERY time we tried to get him back on to dog food he went back to square one. I kept asking if he could have sustained gut damage from the worms and they kept saying it was impossible, insisted his problem was allergies and put him on a prescription diet that made him so sick, he lost over 20 pounds and was a walking skeleton with his fur coming out and zero energy. At this point we did what we should have done ages ago and went to a new vet...

 

Our new vet found he did have damage to his small intestine by doing a blood test that showed an absorption problem in that area – I think it's called a cobalamin/folate test. And she said it was quite possible this damage was due to the parasites. Although our old vet only found rounds, our new one says he could have had whips and hooks too which didn't show up on his fecal (they quite often don't). These can cause serious problems. Kelly was put on pred for the inflammation, and oxytetracycline as our vet suspected SIBO as well.

 

Food wise we've kept him on a bland diet with vitamins/minerals added in, and will do this for the rest of his life if necessary. We're not sure what it is in dog food that upsets him but he has a similar reaction to flavoured nylabones and dog toothpaste, which makes me suspect the damage to his intestines has left them so sensitive he just can't handle anything remotely processed any more. Plus after so many bad reactions to so many foods, I'm extremely reluctant to try any more, and having to cook chicken and rice every night is much less hassle than having a dog that needs to go out every half hour all night while I'm worrying myself sick over him!

Anyway sorry about the essay, I'll shut up now!! Will just add that I really hope your pup feels better soon, and don't hesitate to PM me if I can be of any more help. Let us know how the vet visit went.

[Batmom]

How does he do when he is on your homecooked bland diet? If he does well on that, keep him on that for a longer period of time. Might also want to try a course of metronidazole (flagyl) -- antibiotic + anti-inflammatory for the gut.

[greyhead]

I agree with Stripeyfan that a cobalamine/folate test will go a long way toward showing whether your dog has intestinal damage, and you'll need to know that, regardless of whether it has been caused by parasites or by germs. Also, make sure that your vet knows how bad the poop smells. Gee, now that I think about it, you've probably already been to the vet! (I've been gone all day until now.) Please let us know what happened at the vet's. All of us that are replying to you have experience with and care about greyhounds with GI issues.

 

 

[Guest avadogner]

Hi Luvdogs,

I'm sorry your baby is going through all this and am sorry you are having such a stressful time with you hound. I've been dealing with a much less intense version with my new boy Augie. Augie came home from the rescue org with a tapeworm infection. He has had explosive diahrea since he came home. We just did our second round of deworming meds from our vet yesterday. His poo is still just about all green liquid. It's odor isn't too bad (I'm a former ER nurse and can usually tell when CMV or clostidium are in poo from nursing experiences) but his gas is the worse I've ever experienced. We add a gas med to his meals, have him on probiotics and have tried yogurt and found he does better lacto free. I'm starting to worry he may also have a infection in the GI tract too. His meals are 1/3 Petsmart Authority Chicken Brand kibble with 2/3 ground beef, rice and diluted low sodium broth mix. Our senior dog Ava has always had GI issues so she's been on ProPlan Sensitive Skin and Stomach Salmon blend for 8 yrs. We just changed her to Grain Free Blue Buffalo Salmon to increase her calorie intake (she's a poor eater in her senior yrs). I had been really hoping to not have two houndies on food that cost a fortune. Augie is hydrated well, having no blood in his stool, eating well and gaining adequate weight. My vet said to give him another week to let the dewormer work and his gut recover from a week of SA (we went to the beach 2 wks ago and he has moderate SA). I don't mind keeping him on the ground beef/chicken/venison and rice mix but would like to transition in more kibble. I'm starting to think we should try him Ava's pricey food but am afraid I will end up feeding my dogs a $90 of dog food a month. Between the monthly multi worm prevention meds, flea med treatment, probiotics, Rimadyl for our senior dog, and arthritis supplements for our senior hound, it is getting pretty pricey here. I just spent $170 from PetMedsRx with 20% off. I'm awaiting a kidney transplant and am on 12 meds a day myself. I feel like all our money goes to Pharmaceutical companies. Sorry to rant on I really do want to wish you and your pup a get well soon! I hope you pup is okay and gets better really soon. Keep us posted on how you are both doing. I can't imagine having to clean up pooed in crates every day. You get the Mummy of the Year Award! . Hang in there and hopefully your vet will be able to get him well soon. I'll say a little prayer that you get good news at the vet!

-ava and augie's mum

-ava and augie's mum

[Guest Greytluv]

Any up date?

[silverfish]

The only thing I can add is to wonder if he had a course of antibiotics about that time? Sid had an ongoing problem with horrible, persistent diarrhoea after a course of clindamycin. The vet thought he had developed colitis, but in fact after ID diet kibble and a very gradually reintroduction of his normal food plus probiotics from the start, it turns out he just had his gut flora wiped out.

 

Wouldn't hurt to add probiotics to his food whatever the problem is. Ongoing diarrhoea can upset the balance of the bacterial flora over time anyway. Don't rely on yoghurt, buy the sachets of powder. We actually doubled up on Sid's recommended dose - that can't hurt either, because it's bacteria they're supposed to carry, and you need to help overcome the bad guys.

[Guest luvdogs]

Okay here it the update: My dh ended up being the one to take him to the vet last night. I gave him all the history as I had written out above. He came home with a bottle of apo metronidazole 250mg, to be given 3 times a day. He also had to stop and buy some pepto bismal at the local grocery store. We are to give him the full course of the antibiotics and then see how he is. If he is still sick or ends up sick, we are to bring him back for further tests. The vet said he would start with the ab's as that is the cheapest route and go from there (which I am thankful he started with the least expensive tx). Our pooch is good at taking the ab's hidden in a small piece of meat, but the pepto my dh has to give him otherwise I end up wearing it all over myself. Off to costco today to get him a new bed. His old one is so soiled and soaked through I have to get a new one for him. Poor guy. Hope this helps, but I will take all the info above and tuck it away in case this doesn't help, as we will need as many suggestions as we can get if he is still sick!

 

Thanks!

[mychip1]

Thinking of your pup!!

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Fingers crossed for the metronidazole. I'd second Silverfish's suggestion for probiotics too. Kelly's on one at our vet's recommendation and it definitely helps. We give this, it's a proper 'dog' probiotic and not too hideously expensive either, plus a big tub lasts ages.

[silverfish]

Sid was on Protexin probiotics, too, and I agree. Not too hideously expensive.

[greyhead]

It is true that an inference of SIBO is made if cobalamin and/or folate are low. Further testing (a C&S on the poop) is needed to determine which germ(s) are involved in the infection. If the infection persists long enough, there is indeed damage to the intestines from the bacterial toxins, there is an inability to process cobalamin in the gut, and the end result may well be an IBD dog. And that's why I recommend prompt C&S testing at any good local lab, which is relatively inexpensive compared to ending up with a raging intestinal infection and an IBD dog.

 

Not everyone can afford a biopsy, not every dog (due to age, amount of weight lost already, general health) is a good candidate for surgical biopsy (especially if the owner(s) can't be around to hover over them 24/7 after the surgery), and endoscopy can't necessarily reach the affected parts of the intestine for a greyhound. However, it's hard to get an internist to work with you on IBD without a biopsy. In our case an ultrasound persuaded our vet and the radiologist that the dog proabably had moderate-to-severe IBD, and after a bit of searching we did find an internist to work with us without a biopsy. All I can advise is that one wants to do everything possible to avoid getting to the point of needing one.

 

The problem with throwing Flagyl at presumed SIBO is that even if the bacterium is susceptible to it, it may not be given long enough and at a high enough dose to cure it. That's what happened to us. When our dog's problem didn't clear up on first Tylosin and then Flagyl, the vet inferred that he didn't have an infection. I had to keep asking, three times, to get the C&S done. And if I hadn't, I don't think our dog would have survived, since he had two vastly overgrown strains of Clostridium perfringens, one of which produces gangrene, for crying out loud!

 

I hate SIBO the way most of us on this board hate cancer. Fortunately, I guess most SIBO cases are more easily cleared than ours was. But I still think that timely response is the key. I'm going to shut up now and pack for my week-long trip starting tomorrow. Every good wish to you and your dog for a speedy recovery, luvdogs!

[Guest KennelMom]

Fingers crossed with the flagyl. I'd also not give pasta and only give meat/rice.

[Guest luvdogs]

Update on my boy...He seems to be doing great since starting the AB - NO messes, seems happier, etc. I was wondering IF he had worms, does anyone know if we would notice them in his stool? would the ABs take care of this issue? I really have no idea, but thought I would ask. Thanks!

[Batmom]

Some worms are visible in the stool and some aren't. The antibiotic you were given, metronidazole, won't kill worms. But it has anti-inflammatory properties, so it's possible that the dog could have some gut irritation from a worm infestation and the metronidazole would alleviate that. Note "it's possible." If he had a serious worm infestation, I *doubt* you'd see a dramatic difference on the meds but can't swear to that.

 

Glad your pupper is feeling better.