Cat Attacked Our Greys!

[greyhead]

I don't even know what forum to post this question in, but... How do you train the new cat to not attack the greyhounds?!

 

The vet talked us into taking a stray tom that had been brought to her. They guestimate that he's at least 10, they altered him two weeks ago, and he's FIV-positive but otherwise healthy. His name is Mosby. Our greys, age 7 and 9, have been perfect gentlemen with him, and Mosby has been pretty respectful of them but has been getting braver every day about passing close by them, standing directly underneath, etc. They've all touched noses.

 

Well, an hour ago Spencer jumped on my foot, in his enthusiasm to go for a walk. It was a hard contact and I said ow-ow-ow-ow. Mosby suddenly flies at the dogs, there was yelping and hissing and scrambling... I herded Mosby onto the couch, where I attempted to pick him up, calmly, but he gave me a 4-inch scratch on the arm and hiss to boot. We put him in a time out in the bathroom for 10 minutes, then merely confined him to the upstairs. DH took the boys for their walk.

 

I don't know how to handle this going forward! This cat fearlessly attacked two huge greyhound boys! (I guess he thought he was defending me, and I guess I'm already valuable as She Who Provides Home and Food! He's also very affectionate with people in general.) Though the dogs are very gentle with most small things, I don't think they're going to take a lot of guff from this guy and never respond. And if they respond, the cat's going to lose. Bigtime.

 

How does one train a cat like this, who doesn't even have much obvious experience with a litter box, to act less like a terrier toward the greyhounds?

Edited May 25, 2010 by greyhead

[LuvAPuppy]

He's in a new situation and yes, resource guarding may play a part - you being the resource. Try some Rescue Remedy in the drinking water (he may not drink with it in there...my cat will, my Mom's will not) and try a Felaway diffuser. It's like a Comfort Zone DAP diffuser only for cats. it releases cat pheromones instead of dog ones.

 

Eons ago when we took in a stray it upset our cat-balance and began a cascading displaced aggression amongst the cats. two of them had to be "sedated" with chlorphenaramine maleate (AKA, 2mg of chlor trimaton) twice a day until they all settled back in. It was months of walking on egg shells and kitty downers until all was more right.

[nyGreys]

Cats won't listen to you, they'll do what they want. I would be afraid for the cat & your greys

safety.

If it was me, I would let my vet know it wasn't working out, maybe she could find Mosby a home with no dogs?

Edited May 25, 2010 by nyGreys

[greyhead]

The main problem is that Mosby needs to be an indoor cat in a home with no cats because of his FIV-positive status. The woman who found him couldn't keep him because she has four cats. The Human Society turned him down because of his health status. It's really hard to find a competent cat home where there are no cats already.

thanks for the suggestions. I'll call the vet tomorrow and get her ideas too. Tonight I'll just keep everybody separated. (Thank doG for the pocket door at the top of the stairs!)

 

I have had many cats over the years and never, ever have seen such a ferocious display! At least no blood was drawn.

 

 

[PrairieProf]

For what it's worth, I recently read this Best Friends article that makes the case that it is in fact very hard for FIV to be passed between cats and there's a lot of prejudice against having them adopted. http://www.bestfriends.org/theanimals/petcare/cats_fiv.cfm But I confess I probably wouldn't want my cats exposed. I guess as the cat is brand new and you don't sound really attached yet, I'd also be tempted to decide he's not "dog safe" and back out of the deal.

[Guest LindsaySF]

I pet-sat a vicious cat for a few months. It didn't take much for him to fly into a rage.... I was glad when he went home!

 

If you haven't already, trim his nails as far back as you can without quicking him. You'll be glad you did.

 

Have you tried a squirt bottle to correct him when he acts aggressive? I would also feed him treats when he is being calm with the dogs, and ignore him if he pesters you for attention. Try to avoid loud noises and/or shouting, he might be sensitive to that and attack first and ask questions later if he gets stressed.

 

If you think your dogs might go after him, I would muzzle them. The muzzle also ends up protecting most of their face from cat claws.

 

If you can acclimate the cat to a harness, that will make controlling him a lot easier. It will give you a handle to grab if you need to remove him from a situation. Even better if you can get a leash attached, but he might protest that. If he won't wear a harness wrapping him in a towel or blanket is a good way to handle him and not get scratched. Stash some towels around the house for when they are needed.

 

 

How does he act around the dogs at other times?

 

 

[Trihounds]

If the cat reacted immedately upon hearing you scream, it sounds to me like he was already really nervous and your scream set him off. Fight or flight and most cats swing first and ask questions later. It doesn't mean there will always be a problem but it shows you he was really on pins and needles around the dogs. He probably just needs more time. No different than introducing a new grey - be patient and supportive, but vigilant. I bet things calm down. Good luck!

[Guest LindsaySF]

If he didn't draw blood on the dogs that's a good sign. He could have if he wanted to.

 

 

If the cat reacted immedately upon hearing you scream, it sounds to me like he was already really nervous and your scream set him off. Fight or flight and most cats swing first and ask questions later.

You said this much better than I did.

[greyhead]

If you haven't already, trim his nails as far back as you can without quicking him. You'll be glad you did.

 

Have you tried a squirt bottle to correct him when he acts aggressive? I would also feed him treats when he is being calm with the dogs, and ignore him if he pesters you for attention. Try to avoid loud noises and/or shouting, he might be sensitive to that and attack first and ask questions later if he gets stressed.

 

How does he act around the dogs at other times?

I trimmed your post to just these parts. He came with vet-trimmed nails, so they're short and perfect. That's probably why there were yelps but no blood.

 

He has never been aggressive before! We've used the squirt bottle to train him off the kitchen counters. (He came with a food obsession resulting from having apparently little to eat in recent weeks. The vet said he was really, really thin when they got him. He's up to 10 lbs now.) Anyhow, he has been pushy and insistent about food, but never aggressive.

 

He has acted very well toward the dogs for the most part. We were pleased that he wasn't totally afraid of them, just appropriately respectful until he realized they weren't going to hurt him. But the last few days he seems to have no fear of them at all, seeing as how they avoid going anywhere that he's in the path. He was startled the other day by my merely arising from the couch when he was sniffing something intently. He was so startled that he exploded across the room, right across the length of Spencer's recumbent body and off his head! Spencer squealed and jumped up like, What the h*ll?! But the cat had kept going and nothing came of it.

[greyhead]

If the cat reacted immedately upon hearing you scream, it sounds to me like he was already really nervous and your scream set him off. Fight or flight and most cats swing first and ask questions later. It doesn't mean there will always be a problem but it shows you he was really on pins and needles around the dogs. He probably just needs more time. No different than introducing a new grey - be patient and supportive, but vigilant. I bet things calm down. Good luck!

Okay, just for the record, I did *not* scream! So don't be startin' any rumors. For the pins-and-needles aspect, as I just wrote above, I don't think so. But I think you're right that he has some underlying tension or wariness that was just awaiting a trigger. And given the overall context of everything, I think he's really scared of losing me/us/this home. He probably doesn't want to find himself out in the woods again with the coyotes and whatnot. I've been expecting him to make a run for the door one of the umpteen times it opens for the dogs' outs, but he never yet has. Guess I understand why that is now too. Though I'm sure the day will come, if it ever stops raining and becomes summer here in Seattle!

 

For what it's worth, I recently read this Best Friends article that makes the case that it is in fact very hard for FIV to be passed between cats and there's a lot of prejudice against having them adopted. http://www.bestfrien...re/cats_fiv.cfm But I confess I probably wouldn't want my cats exposed. I guess as the cat is brand new and you don't sound really attached yet, I'd also be tempted to decide he's not "dog safe" and back out of the deal.

Yeah, it's tempting to try to return him. But I don't want him to be PTS because nobody else will take him either. And we really like him. He's just kind of a handful, and we don't want anybody getting hurt.

ETA: Very interesting link, and the couple featured in it live nearby and like to email people about FIV cats. So I will! Thanks so much.

Edited May 25, 2010 by greyhead

[Guest zoolaine]

My mother decided to adopt a feral kitten and it was soooo mean. When I introduced my older dogs to it, I acted like it was going to attack - luckily it was little though and my dogs ran scared to death of a little kitten. I don't know if you can really train a cat or not. I agree that it maybe needs a home without dogs - for everyone's safety. I know Sunny got attacked by a cat about a year ago and because of the medication he was on for his Protein Losing Enteropathy had to go on heavy duty antibiotics due to the risk of serious infection from the cat bite and scratches.

Edited May 25, 2010 by zoolaine

[Guest LindsaySF]

He was startled the other day by my merely arising from the couch when he was sniffing something intently. He was so startled that he exploded across the room, right across the length of Spencer's recumbent body and off his head! Spencer squealed and jumped up like, What the h*ll?! But the cat had kept going and nothing came of it.

Poor Spencer. Kitty does seem pretty easily spooked. That will definitely calm down with time. If there is too much stimulation downstairs in the main living area, where all the people and the dogs are, you can confine him to a bedroom or even the upstairs for a while. He will slowly acclimate to being in your home, and then you can introduce him to more of the house, one room at a time. Interacting with the dogs and all the activity on the main level might be too much for him if he's never been in a house before.

 

The psycho cat I watched for a friend had a safe zone in a spare bedroom. He did wander around the upstairs occasionally, but that's as far as he felt comfortable going. His owners lived in a small apartment, so he was used to a small living space anyway. He stayed where he was the more comfortable and it worked for him. If he had been here longer I probably would have encouraged him to explore more of the house.

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

[Guest Adrianne]

 

How does one train a cat like this

 

 

I'm sorry, I have no advice, but....if you find out how to train a cat period, please do share. My Riley is the only cat in the house, and he seems to have all of US trained.

[greysmom]

If you have an unused crate for the dogs you might try setting it up in a quiet part of the house and use that spot as the cat's "safe zone" away from the dogs. You can confine the cat while still allowing him to be a part of he house so he gets more used to the new dynamics he's living under now. A squirt bottle is very useful, though if he was a stray he might not be water-averse like most indoor cats.

 

I know I'll catch heck for suggesting this, so go easy on me people!

 

In our house we allow more dog-cat contact than many here on the board. We have three very (very very) dog-savvy cats. They were all raised from kittens around and by our three Great Danes, so they are used to big dogs and not scared of them at all. All three of them are quite capable of swatting a dog if they feel threatened or uncomfortable and we've used them to cat-test with our group because they're pretty fearless.

 

The cats will occasionally get a wild hair up one of their collective kitty butts and start playing with (as in harassing) one or more of the greyhounds. The dogs are allowed to tell them to "knock it off" when this happens, as they are much more effective than we are. The dogs don't chase the cats (who are totally indoor all the time) and would be stopped if they ever started, but my philospophy is that the dogs can say what is OK with them - up to a point which all of my dogs know. Most of the time the dogs just get up and move to another room out of the line of fire. They can also growl and bark at them which is usually enough for the cats. Very rarely will one of the dogs actually make any sort of physical contact, and it's most often to nose them away. I've never had one of my dogs - current or former - ever hurt one of "their" cats. (Outdoor cats are a completely separate issue.)

 

I'm just saying... Please don't flame me!

[jetcitywoman]

Buy some Feliway and use it as directed. The same thing comes in off-brands also, look for things that say they are for soothing anxiety. Keep in mind for cats, this stuff needs to be merely smelled, not injested or applied to the cat's body. Spray it in the air not near any pets, or spray it on furniture.

 

Our cat isn't feral or mean, but when we got Capri, she was NOT happy. We used Feliway to help calm her down for a few months until she could adjust to having a dog in the house. (Capri, unfortunately elongated the process by making play overtures, which Pixie interpreted as threats. Oy! )

Edited May 25, 2010 by jetcitywoman

[Guest PhillyPups]

Wondering what the reactions would be if the dog was new and attacked the kitty. Just sayin

[Guest jettcricket]

If the cat reacted immedately upon hearing you scream, it sounds to me like he was already really nervous and your scream set him off. Fight or flight and most cats swing first and ask questions later. It doesn't mean there will always be a problem but it shows you he was really on pins and needles around the dogs. He probably just needs more time. No different than introducing a new grey - be patient and supportive, but vigilant. I bet things calm down. Good luck!

 

Yes, I agree....there was a reason my DH dubbed my cat Pudd'n "The Monster". The boy feared nothing...DH used to say, "He's got more balls than brains".

 

Never full blown attacks, but anytime I brought a new dog (foster) or adopted he wasn't thrilled intially. He would still at times sit on my kitchen table and as the dogs walked by swat them.

 

We use to use Pudd'n for cat testing the dogs...one time he actually grabbed the dog's muzzle and wouldn't let go. Poor pupper was backing up, eyes all bug eyed!!!!!

 

We then resorted to a less threatening kitteh.

Edited May 25, 2010 by jettcricket

[Guest Liz_in_PA]

 

Poor Spencer. Kitty does seem pretty easily spooked. That will definitely calm down with time. If there is too much stimulation downstairs in the main living area, where all the people and the dogs are, you can confine him to a bedroom or even the upstairs for a while. He will slowly acclimate to being in your home, and then you can introduce him to more of the house, one room at a time. Interacting with the dogs and all the activity on the main level might be too much for him if he's never been in a house before.

<snip>

~Lindsay~

 

When I've introduced new cats in my house, I've always started by confining it to the bathroom, then the bedroom, and gradually adding more space. Someone said to me, with the whole house, you give the cat too much responsibility. Mosby sounds stressed but content. I agree with giving him less space for a while. You probably won't hear any complaints from him if you lock him in a bedroom.

 

One of my cats likes to hang out on the chairs under the table and tablecloth. When Bonnie walks past, a foot will reach out and swipe at her. Bonnie, for her part, likes to play tag with Mango. When Mango gets fluffy, Bonnie turns around in triumph, "ha, made you fluff! I'm done now."

[greyhead]

What effect does Feliway in a diffuser have on the dogs?

 

I'll start using it upstairs where the kitty is now confined. But I'm just curious if the dogs will feel...unwelcome in some way if the air is perfused with cat pheromones! I mean, we all know greys are sensitive and can take a hint! Seriously, the dogs were here first and this cat will either get with the program or else.

 

We really did begin with the one-room and then one-floor cat restriction at the beginning. But he's a very smart and intrepid kitteh who graduated comfortably to whole house within 3-4 days. Now he seems to be making a bid for Mucho Macho Alpha Animal, probably because of underlying insecurity about his and the dogs' relative places in the scheme of things. And he'd still have some macho hormones left since he was only neutered two weeks ago, yes?

 

Btw, Shane came upstairs to look for me early last evening -- musta left the door open -- and Mosby started to get in his face. You could see it in his body positioning, but I didn't let it get any further than that. Several firm "no's" from me were enough to get him to walk away and chill. My theory and experience with prior cats is that they *can* be trained insofar as they are smart enough to perceive your expectations/desires and comply with them if they value you. But I've never dealt with a feral before. Eesh.

 

So we're back to upstairs confinement for Mosby. DH works up there in the daytime and we sleep there, so he won't lack for company. And we'll just start over, this time with Feliway. We'll see about the harness-and-leash possibilities or maybe reintroducing him to the downstairs in his carrier. (I like the crate idea but don't have the space available right now.)

 

Spencer is having a dental tomorrow. (Who me, nervous?! ) There will be a tree-trimming-and-cutting crew here all day. So Spencer and Mosby are going to spend the day at the vet, where Mosby will see his old friends, and Shane is going to board with a dog-sitter two blocks over. I wish someone would board me , but I'll have to stay and listen to it. Meanwhile, Mosby's going to stay upstairs cuz I don't want anything to upset Spencer right now. So thank you all *so* much for your perspectives and suggestions. If it's not pushing my luck to ask for more, please hold a good thought for Spencer's dental.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Greysmom, I have the same situation at my house. I recently had to put down my girlie Dexter, but Slate is still around (the cats) and my hounds are never muzzled around the cats, they are never isolated from each other. The one thing that I do have is a baby gate up in the room that contains the dry kitty food (the dogs love the stuff). Once the group gets established, I dont really see a huge need for worrying about things. We recently adopted #3 greyhound (JJ's Jessica Lee - see Jesse) and she has fit in so much so that after about 2 weeks of crating, then two weeks of muzzling when unsupervised around the house, she no longer wears her muzzle either. I believe that greyhounds do see cats in their house as part of their pack.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Greysmom, I also allow my dogs to growl at the cats. Grady will take the hint, Finny not so much. It's all about communication. I do not allow snapping, chasing, or any physical contact.

 

Mosby will still have some hormones left over, yes. He sounds fear reactive, and still unsure of things, but once he settles in he might also try to push the envelope and pick on and bully the dogs. I'm glad that your verbal corrections kept Mosby on his best behavior.

 

Btw, I would not consider him feral. A truly feral cat could not be living in your house relatively peacefully and interacting with you yet. You would need a catch pole or a trap to capture him, and probably leather gloves to handle him. If the dogs got close enough they would be covered in bites and scratches. At the vet where I used to work we would get in a lot of feral cats for spay/neuter and release. Oh boy, I'll take an aggressive dog any day..... Mosby is just a stray that isn't used to home living just yet.

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

[Guest TBSFlame]

The main problem is that Mosby needs to be an indoor cat in a home with no cats because of his FIV-positive status. The woman who found him couldn't keep him because she has four cats. The Human Society turned him down because of his health status. It's really hard to find a competent cat home where there are no cats already.

thanks for the suggestions. I'll call the vet tomorrow and get her ideas too. Tonight I'll just keep everybody separated. (Thank doG for the pocket door at the top of the stairs!)

 

I have had many cats over the years and never, ever have seen such a ferocious display! At least no blood was drawn.

 

 

 

I know a greyhound that lost an eye to a cat scratch. Be careful.

[greyhead]

Thanks for the eye warning, Linda. Truly, I hadn't thought about that exact injury!

 

Yeah, Lindsay, I know he's not really feral, although that's what the vet's office called him. And now that I'm a little ticked off at him, I'm using the term as a perjorative, I guess. This is me blowing off a little steam! But it's also a reminder to me that whatever his total fund of experience is, and however in command he can appear to be, there's some basic stuff that he justs does not know!

 

For instance, he's using the litter box, but he doesn't know how to stay in the box to cover his stuff with the litter. He gets out of the box and scratches on the mat in front of it, and he works really hard at it! But the vet was pleased/surprised to hear that he was even using the box. So now we need a longer box -- probably cardboard --so he can learn to cover with litter.

 

We do care for the little guy. But now I remember why I'd decided not to have more cats!

Edited May 25, 2010 by greyhead

[Guest LindsaySF]

You know my Manx Finny never learned to cover his litter. He always scratches the box itself and the mat outside the box.

[turbotaina]

You know my Manx Finny never learned to cover his litter. He always scratches the box itself and the mat outside the box.

 

Both of my cats (now 12) do the same thing. And I've had them forever.