Multiple Dogs - Aggression

[Guest marreve22]

I have posted this question to another group, so if you happen to be on that other group, you might have seen this post before. Sorry.

 

I have a 12 year old male german shepherd and a almost 4 year old female grey and 5 weeks ago got a 2nd female grey (she 2 1/2).

I never expected the aggression issues that I have seen from my new grey! I guess looking back that I can understand she is at the bottom of the rung and trying to work her way up the ladder of importance...

Her and the other female sure had their share of fights a couple weeks back and I was really stressed out and wondering if the new dog just wasn't right for our family, but I'm a very stubborn person and was determined that it would work!

They don't fight so much anymore. I can't figure out who is the alpha, but I guess they have figured it out.

The shepherd has been staying out of the fights and letting the girls have their drama, and the new girl seems to understand that he is the old dog and to leave him alone...or so I thought.

I was working in the office this afternoon and heard fighting in the living room and when I got out there, the shepherd was splayed out on the floor screaming in pain (he has bad hips and spine issues and is on steroids) and the new grey was standing on top of him. I don't know exactly what took place, but I can assume that she tried to take a cookie or bone away from him and he defended himself and she got aggressive.

This is the first time she has ever tried anything with the shepherd, so that surprised me.

She has been in the house like 5-6 weeks now and she is letting her true personality out and I guess agression is a part of that.

I am being very clear that I am in charge and not her, but is this normal to try and get 'in front' of all the other dogs in the house..?

I dont really trust her right now. She has never snapped at people since we have had her, only dogs...

 

Sorry for being long winded

[Guest isntitgreyt]

I'm having a bit of an issue myself with a GH and my BT. I would highly recommend you muzzle her when you are not there to watch her. Other than that, I can't be the pot calling the kettle black

[greytluck]

If I read it correctly it sounds like they have bones/food around when your not directly supervising them. I think that would be the first thing I would be changing. Bones and such are often novelties for new pet greyhound and as such they are pretty high in value for them. Especially since your dogs are not an established pack yet and are still working things out between themselves I would make sure nothing is around that any of them are possessive over, like bones, treats or toys. It's just a fight waiting to happen.

 

Good luck.

[Batmom]

If I read it correctly it sounds like they have bones/food around when your not directly supervising them. I think that would be the first thing I would be changing. Bones and such are often novelties for new pet greyhound and as such they are pretty high in value for them. Especially since your dogs are not an established pack yet and are still working things out between themselves I would make sure nothing is around that any of them are possessive over, like bones, treats or toys. It's just a fight waiting to happen.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Ditto.

 

When you can't supervise, muzzles (if you muzzle one, you MUST muzzle ALL) or separation with baby gates will make your life easier. Sometimes with a new/visiting dog, I simply gate them all INto the same room with me (computer room, for example) so they can't get into trouble out of my sight.

 

 

[RobinM]

Ditto ditto above.

 

We learned the very hard way about NEVER leaving any valuable treats out when we are not home. My Beau JUMPED from the bed over the x-pen that was open and used as a large gate into where my Teddy was just about to eat his kong which we gave everyone prior to leaving for work. That GOD my DH was still in the garage getting into his car when he heard the GSOD and it really was a GSOD. Teddy attacked Beau and just missed his jugular. By the time DH ran upstairs, Beau was in shock. DH rushed him to the vet where he had emergency surgery. We never leave ANYTHING that they can't eat on the spot. And we got higher e-pens in which to seperate them.

 

Don't leave anything of value to any of them out when you are not there to supervise.

[JAJ2010]

I agree with the no bones food thing! There were many times i stormed though our apt picking up every little edible toy while cursing up a storm. Always after belting out the VOG! Lol now after i m/onths we have bones back out again and the gils do steal from each other, but it a playful thing that happens after someone walks away from a bone. Muzzle, supervise, stop any bullying! For what its worth Sunshine never had any food bone agression towards humans and Rainy was so sure that i would back her up that she usually laid there and rolled her eyes at the growling puppy. so nice to have a calm established dog that knows the ropes.

[Guest marreve22]

Thank you for all the advice

I used to keep them in the office with me, but it is too confining of an area and they got in several fights in here, so I figured that the whole house was bigger and they wouldn't feel cramped.

I gave them all 3 bones, and they were the same size and kind, and they were in their respective places eating their bones, which usually works. They get 1 bone every day, and this was the first time this happened.

The shepherd might be more than usually grouchy...seems he is more every day, so I kinda give him his space, which the girls also do most of the time...

Anyway, I do have a muzzle for Puzzle, and if she continues this nonsense, she will be wearing it.

I am home all the time with them, so they are supervised most of the time.

 

Thanks and goodnight

Glad to meet you all

[Guest zoolaine]

Older dogs usually get grouchy, especially when they are having some pain. I agree that the muzzle is a good idea. It is not fair for your old german sheperd boy to be hurt by the new grey. The muzzle will help keep everyone safe until they work out boundaries.

[Guest KennelMom]

Whenever I see a dog being blamed for a lot of aggression (esp a greyhound, and esp esp a new greyhound)...and lots of talk about which dog is "alpha" my warning light starts blinking that a dog is getting a bum rap. Not by any intention of the human, but just because humans tend to see things through biased/colored glasses...and we miss the subtle details of most dog behavior and communication. In other words, we don't see the entire conversation that plays out between dogs for sometimes days or hours...we only see the obvious "bite" or "fight"

 

This REALLY caught my attention:

 

I don't know exactly what took place, but I can assume that she tried to take a cookie or bone away from him and he defended himself and she got aggressive.

 

I would wonder why the dogs had cookies/bones without supervision. In an established balanced pack it's not something I would recommend, but in a pack with a new greyhound who's learning all the rules of being a pet, it's downright a BAD decision to leave high value treats out without the human to supervise.

 

Have you read the article by Kathleen Gilley about life from a greyhound's perspective? It is your job to teach the greyhound what proper pet behavior is and what is acceptable/not acceptable in your "pack." She has NO clue. My guess is that she's not aggressive...and not even necessarily "alpha"...she's a young greyhound who hasn't been shown any rules, boundaries or limitations. She hasn't been show what's OK and what's not OK so she's making things up as she goes. Add in the anxiety of a new environment filled with strangers and strange things and many dogs see the best defense is a good offense. The people only see "aggression." NILIF (nothing in life is free) is a good way to start working with a dog with a strong personality...you can search for it on Greytalk or google it.

 

We have 19. There is no alpha dog. Dogs aren't allowed to bully each other. A muzzle can be your friend in the beginning, but remember that it's really more of just a band aid to prevent injury...it will not resolve any behavorial issues or pack tensions.

Edited April 9, 2010 by KennelMom

[Guest PhillyPups]

Good as always Heather. I never give treats without being in the room. My 5 will all eat chicken legs side by side without a grumble, and they know I am right there with them. They were not always that way, but over time and their learning they have gotten that way.

 

She does not know that it was not her bone. They do not see size, all the same, etc., she just saw a bone.

 

Can you babygate her in the office with you?

 

Maybe I am overly cautious, my hounds are always close by me in the house and a slight grumble I allow, if it gets to more than that a stern YO or HEY HEY HEY usually resolves that. I do not have an "alpha" here either, they take turns taking the lead in what they do.

 

I was told I have a stable pack as a result of my behaviors. I am not an expert by any means, but I am overly cautious with their behaviors.

Good luck with it.

[Batmom]

Anyway, I do have a muzzle for Puzzle, and if she continues this nonsense, she will be wearing it.

 

Please don't muzzle just one! That can lead to a serious fight, with her on the receiving end. Doesn't matter if you are home with them.

 

You MUST muzzle ALL or NONE.

[Guest Ohiogreymom]

I give my 4 extra large turkey necks. They eat these head to head, sharing a comforter (that gets washed after),with NO problems, but I'm right there.I would NEVER leave them unattended with one bite of food. Also agree: muzzle one = muzzle all. Good luck! Darlene

[Guest BlackandBrindle]

When you say fights, do you mean snarking and growling and posturing, or do you mean actual contact, dogs mouth/teeth on another dog?

 

No one is allowed to be rude in my house, whether it's a foster, a visitor, or to each other.

 

I've had my dogs for four years and while they are very settled and get along well with each other, I do not give them bones/chews unsupervised. Sadie would more than likely just give it to Spud if he demanded it of her, but 1. It's her chew not his and 2. Why take the chance?

 

With a new dog you really need to work with bonding and structure. I'd be taking the two greys on long walks together. This helps them get to know each other, it reinforces that good things happen when they are together, etc etc etc...

 

With your shepherd, it's a good idea to take them on shorter walks together (because of his health issues).

 

Any time you bring in a new dog there will be adjustment. You need to be more diligent about supervision right now (it's not just you, but YOU in the general sense of the word) because everything is new to your new girl. Her entire world has been turned upside down and she's just trying to figure out what's going on. In the mean time you need to make sure that everyone is safe.

 

Good luck!

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

To comment on your statement that any one of your hounds is "alpha" that in itself is a problem. You did comment later on that you are in charge, but if you refer to one of your hounds as "alpha" that means you are not, by definition there can be only one "alpha". YOU are in charge.

 

As a few others have said here that have large packs of hounds, their pack doesnt have an "alpha" dog, the HUMAN is the "alpha" (if you like to use the term). In my house my hounds (granted I only have 3 of my own and a rotating foster for a total of 4 at any given time) would never DARE to get into a fight in front of me. I allow for grumblings here and there, especially when there is a new foster, but they get about 1 second of grumble, then its "uh-ah" from me or my wife.

 

What I see to correct the situation are two things that will help: First, no bones or high value treats without direct and constant supervision. Second, you need to be sure to take charge. This can be done in various ways from obedience training to hand feeding as well as other ways also, these are just two examples of taking charge.

 

Another thing as someone asked above, what do you consider a "fight"? Growling, teeth showing, air snapping, these I would not consider a fight. Even one rolling the other isnt really a fight, per sey. A fight would be where teeth are actually making contact with intent to harm, usually resulting in wounds and blood. It was also said above that you need to be very aware of the subtle behavioral changes that occur before an actual fight breaks out.

 

This can be worked out, I dont see any reason why you would have to return your new hound, you just need to make some adjustments as well as bonding between the hounds to help the situation. Relax, this is not impossible, it is just going to take a bit of leadership on your part to work out the kinks.

 

Chad

[jamngrey]

Anyway, I do have a muzzle for Puzzle, and if she continues this nonsense, she will be wearing it.

 

Please don't muzzle just one! That can lead to a serious fight, with her on the receiving end. Doesn't matter if you are home with them.

 

You MUST muzzle ALL or NONE.

DITTO!!!!!

[Guest burgerandfrey]

The only time I have seen one of our greys really go after the other was over a treat-stuffed Kong. We give both of them equal treats, but sometimes one finishes before the other (or in the case of the Kongs one of them might even give up on it for awhile). Fortunately it was nothing serious, but it could have been. Our 75 pound male grabbed our 60 pound female's neck in his jaws for a second, but he didn't bite hard enough to break the skin. He just grabbed her and let go to warn her. She let out multiple GSODs and ran over to us. Five minutes later she was fine and standing right next to our other dog who had just done this to her. I'm sure that if he really wanted to he could have seriously hurt her, but I guess it was his intention to just reprimand her for taking his treat. This happened while my wife was in the room... it just happened quickly while she wasn't looking.

 

So now we have a new rule about high value treats like treat-filled-Kongs and anything they can chew for long periods of time: They get equal treats only when supervised, and we take them away after they've both had a good go of it and are getting tired. Other times they just get cookies, which they quickly consume!

 

Fortunately they do not get snarky over beds, balls, or other toys. Zeke will sometimes bully Lola into moving so he can lie down in a particular spot, or so she will give up a ball he wants... but the exchange is always peaceful.