Raw Feeding Basics

[Guest kahjul]

They are still getting kibble for breakfast and they got kibble on the nights they didn't get the chicken. I wanted to start out fairly light with the chicken. I did take out 2 leg quarters for dinner tonight.

[Guest greyhound9797]

They are still getting kibble for breakfast and they got kibble on the nights they didn't get the chicken. I wanted to start out fairly light with the chicken. I did take out 2 leg quarters for dinner tonight.

 

No reason to go slow...just jump right in! There may be some tummy upset as they get used to their new diet but after a few days it will subside. A quarter should be the appropriate size and weight for your dogs. Remember, you want to feed 2-3% of their IDEAL ADULT body weight.

 

You will notice fewer and smaller stools, as another member mentioned, because their bodies are utilizing much more of their food than they were on kibble. Also, because raw has a very high water content they will most likely drink less but urinate about the same as on kibble.

 

Good luck and feel free to ask questions.

 

Sandra in FL

[Guest myGreyHeart]

I posted another thread, but I think this was the one to go to orig.

I want to feed my 75 and 55 lb Greyhounds raw. I don't know what the first meal should ideally be. I have organic chicken drumsticks, organic ground beef, sweet potatoes, greens (like romaine) if those should be added. Can I just "go ahead" and give them something raw, or do I need to purchase more things like bone meal and other additives?

[Guest mandm]

I learned about rawfeeding from this very easy to understand site. http://www.rawdogranch.com/Basics.htm

[Guest Ola]

I posted another thread, but I think this was the one to go to orig.

I want to feed my 75 and 55 lb Greyhounds raw. I don't know what the first meal should ideally be. I have organic chicken drumsticks, organic ground beef, sweet potatoes, greens (like romaine) if those should be added. Can I just "go ahead" and give them something raw, or do I need to purchase more things like bone meal and other additives?

Drumsticks are ok but IMO a little small for a greyhound. I'd go for some chicken leg quarters instead. Chicken is a common starting meat so you can definitely go with that - and usually the recommendation is to stick with just chicken for at least a few days to a week and then introduce a second protein (say turkey). After a few days of that you can introduce a third protein (say pork or beef or lamb). And when you've been feeding those things for a few weeks, you'll very very slowly start giving some organ meat as well (it tends to loosen stools so you want to increase slowly to let the dogs' tummies get used to it).

 

I wouldn't be feeding sweet potatoes or greens, and you only need bone meal (or another calcium source) if your dogs can't eat bone for some reason. The only thing other than meat, bone, and organs that you will want to give is fish oil. And of course if your dogs have any health issues then whatever they need for that.

[Guest kahjul]

So-odd question, if you go out of town and have a pet sitter, have you ever had anyone freak out about the raw? If so, do you switch to kibble for those few days or do you just keep searching until you find someone willing to feed your diet? If you do go to kibble for a few days, how badly doeas that upset the apple cart?

[Guest sja5032]

what is the difference between feeding raw & cooked? DBF gets free meat from a local supermarket (stuff after sell by date, emphasis on sell by, therefore still usable, we've eaten it ourselves) but he refused the idea of feeding it raw to humor him I cook it. I understand the dental/mental stimulation but I am wondering about nutritional difference.

 

HUGE difference! Once you cook food you remove a lot of the nutrients. One way you can compare the values is to visit http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Type in raw chicken breast, choose the top selection then 100 grams. In another window type in chicken breast, choose roasted, then 100 grams and you can see the difference. Domestic dogs are only .02% genetically different from wolves and you don't see wolves roasting their chickens over campfires.

 

Sandra in FL

 

There is a .2% MtDNA difference not a .02% total difference. I have been trying to figure out where you got this .02 number and I can not find it anywhere. I did find numbers as high at 2% for total genetic difference between dog and wolf (this is the same as the difference between a human and a chimp). Logic would say that since the MtDNA difference is greater than your .02% then the number that is the total difference is greater than .02% since that is only the mitochondrial difference.

 

Secondly, I followed your directions from the website and I found almost no difference. The roasted chicken actually had 9 grams more protein than the raw, so if I was going from that I would go with the roasted anyway. The vitamin and mineral differences were too minuscule to even acknowledge.

 

I appreciate your willingness to help, but please have better information. There are people in the world that will take things like this and run with them without checking the facts for themselves.

 

I have no problem with feeding raw, as I stated earlier I would like to do it. I just have a problem with people throwing out incorrect numbers and statistics.

[Guest greyhound9797]

There is a .2% MtDNA difference not a .02% total difference. I have been trying to figure out where you got this .02 number and I can not find it anywhere. I did find numbers as high at 2% for total genetic difference between dog and wolf (this is the same as the difference between a human and a chimp). Logic would say that since the MtDNA difference is greater than your .02% then the number that is the total difference is greater than .02% since that is only the mitochondrial difference.

 

Secondly, I followed your directions from the website and I found almost no difference. The roasted chicken actually had 9 grams more protein than the raw, so if I was going from that I would go with the roasted anyway. The vitamin and mineral differences were too minuscule to even acknowledge.

 

I appreciate your willingness to help, but please have better information. There are people in the world that will take things like this and run with them without checking the facts for themselves.

 

I have no problem with feeding raw, as I stated earlier I would like to do it. I just have a problem with people throwing out incorrect numbers and statistics.

You are correct - there is a .2% difference, that was a typo on my part.

 

Mea culpa...you got me on the nutritional differences. However, I still believe that feeding raw is the most natural and beneficial way to feed. If you were able to identify my typo then you have done your research; I urge you to continue that research, not just take my word for it. For every site you find that says raw is best you will find one that says it is unhealthy. Do your research and make up your own mind. The kickers for me were http://dogtorj.tripod.com/id51.html and http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?p=359&more=1.

 

I truly believe that feeding raw has benefited my hound and I haven't heard of one raw feeder who said they would go back to kibble. If you are willing, do an experiment...feed your grey raw for 3 months and you will see the changes, not just in their skin, fur, teeth and stool volume but in their demeanor as well. There is nothing like an excited greyhound prancing and waiting for their meal.

 

Sandra in FL

[Guest Bean_Scotch]

I researched for two years on feeding raw. Read Dr. Ian Billinghurst books, looked up websites...I was still scared I wouldn't give my dogs the proper nutrients...however, one day I got tired of spending ridiculous amounts of $$ on dog food(this was during the time that companies where increasing price and decreasing bag size). One day I just decided...okay today is the day I'm feeding raw...I handed them over a couple chicken breast bones each and never looked back. They are approaching 9 yrs old and the change in them has been AWESOME. Happier, playful, less poop, coat is awesome. Now I give a bit more than just chicken breast bones. lol. Even my vet who doesn't like clients that feed raw commented on how good they look. If you're on the fence just jump!

[Guest myGreyHeart]

I fed raw chicken (I gave leg quarters and drumsticks) twice now, they liked it. No stomach problems in over 24 hours (I hope not)

 

 

[Guest speedoketo]

Dogs are not obligate carnivores, they are omnivores. Cats are obligate carnivores. Dogs need carbohydrates in their diets - not as much as us but certainly not so little that you can eliminate them all together.

 

There is no scientific evidence that raw is better than cooked. I challenge you to find a peer reviewed journal article touting the clear benefits of raw over cooked. The risks are very clear though. It worries me very much that someone suggested feeding raw pork. Have you ever had the option of ordering your porkchops rare? I hope not because raw pork carries trichenella and toxoplasma parasites which can get you very sick so feeding it to your dogs is a similarly poor choice. When cooked though pork is very cheap and a great alternative to beef and chicken.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/parasi...lness/index.asp (you'll have to scroll a lot)

 

I'm pretty relieved that people on here are considering calcium:phosphorus ratios though. If you don't do it right you're risking nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism and pathological fractures from systemic bone demineralization, an easily preventable disease.

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/nutritional-s...dogs/page1.aspx

 

Also, a greyhound and a wolf have different nutritional needs and you can't justify a diet being preferable because that's what a wolf would eat. For example - a racing greyhound on the track, a husky running the Iditerod, a chihuahua, a dog with chronic kidney disease, and a wolf all need drastically different diets since they have different nutritional needs. It worries me that people would think that "one diet fits all;" even different greyhounds have different levels of activity and you shouldn't feed your puppy, adult, senior, and competitive lure courser all the same diet.

 

Now I'm all for a homemade diet if you've done your research and talked to a nutritionist and you're extremely careful with the meat you prepare. Homemade diets can be a fabulous option when done right and the health benefit of a home diet over something like Old Roy are huge. I've heard too many stories of dogs flourishing on these diets do doubt them. I know personally it's not the right choice for me since my dogs thrive on their kibble (beautiful coats, teeth, poops, serum chemistry values and overall health) but that doesn't mean I should tell the whole world that that is what will work for them. It's just we all know that not everything you read on the internet is true and if someone can't back up their claims with hard data you shouldn't assume it's true, especially if they're trying to sell you something. If it sounds too good to be true then it probably is. You're absolutely right that not all kibble is created equal and there's some really horrible food on the shelves but it's not all bad. People who can't afford or don't have the time to make a homemade diet shouldn't be made to feel like they're bad owners for not making the big switch. I expect to see a lot more research on this in the future - a lot of companies are starting to formulate their own non-kibble diets which will of course be beneficial to both us and our dogs.

 

[Guest greyhound9797]

Dogs are not obligate carnivores, they are omnivores. Cats are obligate carnivores. Dogs need carbohydrates in their diets - not as much as us but certainly not so little that you can eliminate them all together.

 

There is no scientific evidence that raw is better than cooked. I challenge you to find a peer reviewed journal article touting the clear benefits of raw over cooked. The risks are very clear though. It worries me very much that someone suggested feeding raw pork. Have you ever had the option of ordering your porkchops rare? I hope not because raw pork carries trichenella and toxoplasma parasites which can get you very sick so feeding it to your dogs is a similarly poor choice. When cooked though pork is very cheap and a great alternative to beef and chicken.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/parasi...lness/index.asp (you'll have to scroll a lot)

 

I'm pretty relieved that people on here are considering calcium:phosphorus ratios though. If you don't do it right you're risking nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism and pathological fractures from systemic bone demineralization, an easily preventable disease.

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/nutritional-s...dogs/page1.aspx

 

Also, a greyhound and a wolf have different nutritional needs and you can't justify a diet being preferable because that's what a wolf would eat. For example - a racing greyhound on the track, a husky running the Iditerod, a chihuahua, a dog with chronic kidney disease, and a wolf all need drastically different diets since they have different nutritional needs. It worries me that people would think that "one diet fits all;" even different greyhounds have different levels of activity and you shouldn't feed your puppy, adult, senior, and competitive lure courser all the same diet.

 

Now I'm all for a homemade diet if you've done your research and talked to a nutritionist and you're extremely careful with the meat you prepare. Homemade diets can be a fabulous option when done right and the health benefit of a home diet over something like Old Roy are huge. I've heard too many stories of dogs flourishing on these diets do doubt them. I know personally it's not the right choice for me since my dogs thrive on their kibble (beautiful coats, teeth, poops, serum chemistry values and overall health) but that doesn't mean I should tell the whole world that that is what will work for them. It's just we all know that not everything you read on the internet is true and if someone can't back up their claims with hard data you shouldn't assume it's true, especially if they're trying to sell you something. If it sounds too good to be true then it probably is. You're absolutely right that not all kibble is created equal and there's some really horrible food on the shelves but it's not all bad. People who can't afford or don't have the time to make a homemade diet shouldn't be made to feel like they're bad owners for not making the big switch. I expect to see a lot more research on this in the future - a lot of companies are starting to formulate their own non-kibble diets which will of course be beneficial to both us and our dogs.

I am not an expert, never claimed to be one, but I did my research and made the decision to feed raw because I don't feel there is a commercial kibble out there that provides what my dog needs without adding tons of fillers and additives they DON'T need. I strongly believe dogs are carnivores based on what I have read.

 

You challenge me to find a peer reviewed journal stating raw is better than cooked. There isn't one and that is because there is nobody to benefit monetarily from researching one. As I mentioned, for every web article or site you find that touts the benefits of raw you will find one that says it is dangerous BUT I looked for and found information from people who have been feeding raw for decades and believe what they say. What do they have to benefit by saying it is better than cooked or kibble? Absolutely nothing, they are sharing their experiences and knowledge, just like I did when I created this thread. I have said "Do your research and make the decision for yourself", I asked someone to do an experiment and feed raw for 3 months to see if they notice they change in their dog. I have NOT said anyone is a bad pet owner if they don't feed raw.

 

You provide information about pork based on HUMAN consumption, not animal consumption. I am sure you realize that a dogs' digestive tract is much different that a humans and the parasites and illnesses that are a risk to humans are not risky for dogs. Wolves have survived for centuries eating raw anything, they have not become extinct because they eat raw chicken, pork or beef. My 12 year old grey is thriving on raw like she never did on kibble and I fed her what I thought was "quality" kibble.

 

A greyhound and a wolf really aren't all that different (remember my typo stating that wolves and domestic dogs are .2% different in genetic make up? That is a fact that you can find on the internet) and a greyhound and a chihuahua aren't all that different. What IS different is the husky racing the Iditerod, a couch potato greyhound, an obese German Shepard and an underweight lab. They do require different amounts of food, possibly different types of food but again I say "Do your research". Just because the kibble manufacturers make a "light" or "senior" formula doesn't mean it is healthy.

 

You say "It's just we all know that not everything you read on the internet is true and if someone can't back up their claims with hard data you shouldn't assume it's true, especially if they're trying to sell you something. If it sounds too good to be true then it probably is." Again I go back to...if you find a site that says raw is good you will find a site that says raw is bad. There isn't any hard data on feeding raw because nobody can benefit from it!! I go by personal experience...isn't that how we find good doctors, lawyers, car mechanics, etc? All by good old word of mouth. Nobody is trying to "sell" the raw diet because, again, nobody benefits monetarily from it. Sure, there are companies like Honest Kitchen, Barfworld, Steve's Real Food, etc that sell a pre-made raw diet but I don't buy it, or recommend it, because I believe all my grey needs is meat, bone and organ, not veggies and fruits. Just because IAMS says their food is the best are we to believe that? Sure, they have data but there is also proof that they abuse their "test dogs". Do I want to support a dog food company that abuses dogs? Hell no!

 

Feeding raw has become more popular as more people are doing it and documenting their experiences. The pet food recall was a decision maker for a LOT of kibble feeders to switch to raw. I belong to several raw feeding groups/forums and have never heard of a dog dying due to eating raw food. Is it a cure all? Absolutely not, even the experienced feeders will tell you that, but does it solve a lot of food allergy problems, skin issues, bowel issues, teeth issues? It sure does. I created this thread to bring another option to grey owners, to educate those that may be interested in feeding raw and are looking for something better than what they currently feed. It is an OPTION, not mandatory. Everyone is free to make a choice just like I did.

[Guest Bean_Scotch]

Dogs are not obligate carnivores, they are omnivores. Cats are obligate carnivores. Dogs need carbohydrates in their diets - not as much as us but certainly not so little that you can eliminate them all together.

 

There is no scientific evidence that raw is better than cooked. I challenge you to find a peer reviewed journal article touting the clear benefits of raw over cooked. The risks are very clear though. It worries me very much that someone suggested feeding raw pork. Have you ever had the option of ordering your porkchops rare? I hope not because raw pork carries trichenella and toxoplasma parasites which can get you very sick so feeding it to your dogs is a similarly poor choice. When cooked though pork is very cheap and a great alternative to beef and chicken.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/parasi...lness/index.asp (you'll have to scroll a lot)

 

I'm pretty relieved that people on here are considering calcium:phosphorus ratios though. If you don't do it right you're risking nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism and pathological fractures from systemic bone demineralization, an easily preventable disease.

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/nutritional-s...dogs/page1.aspx

 

Also, a greyhound and a wolf have different nutritional needs and you can't justify a diet being preferable because that's what a wolf would eat. For example - a racing greyhound on the track, a husky running the Iditerod, a chihuahua, a dog with chronic kidney disease, and a wolf all need drastically different diets since they have different nutritional needs. It worries me that people would think that "one diet fits all;" even different greyhounds have different levels of activity and you shouldn't feed your puppy, adult, senior, and competitive lure courser all the same diet.

 

Now I'm all for a homemade diet if you've done your research and talked to a nutritionist and you're extremely careful with the meat you prepare. Homemade diets can be a fabulous option when done right and the health benefit of a home diet over something like Old Roy are huge. I've heard too many stories of dogs flourishing on these diets do doubt them. I know personally it's not the right choice for me since my dogs thrive on their kibble (beautiful coats, teeth, poops, serum chemistry values and overall health) but that doesn't mean I should tell the whole world that that is what will work for them. It's just we all know that not everything you read on the internet is true and if someone can't back up their claims with hard data you shouldn't assume it's true, especially if they're trying to sell you something. If it sounds too good to be true then it probably is. You're absolutely right that not all kibble is created equal and there's some really horrible food on the shelves but it's not all bad. People who can't afford or don't have the time to make a homemade diet shouldn't be made to feel like they're bad owners for not making the big switch. I expect to see a lot more research on this in the future - a lot of companies are starting to formulate their own non-kibble diets which will of course be beneficial to both us and our dogs.

I am not an expert, never claimed to be one, but I did my research and made the decision to feed raw because I don't feel there is a commercial kibble out there that provides what my dog needs without adding tons of fillers and additives they DON'T need. I strongly believe dogs are carnivores based on what I have read.

 

You challenge me to find a peer reviewed journal stating raw is better than cooked. There isn't one and that is because there is nobody to benefit monetarily from researching one. As I mentioned, for every web article or site you find that touts the benefits of raw you will find one that says it is dangerous BUT I looked for and found information from people who have been feeding raw for decades and believe what they say. What do they have to benefit by saying it is better than cooked or kibble? Absolutely nothing, they are sharing their experiences and knowledge, just like I did when I created this thread. I have said "Do your research and make the decision for yourself", I asked someone to do an experiment and feed raw for 3 months to see if they notice they change in their dog. I have NOT said anyone is a bad pet owner if they don't feed raw.

 

You provide information about pork based on HUMAN consumption, not animal consumption. I am sure you realize that a dogs' digestive tract is much different that a humans and the parasites and illnesses that are a risk to humans are not risky for dogs. Wolves have survived for centuries eating raw anything, they have not become extinct because they eat raw chicken, pork or beef. My 12 year old grey is thriving on raw like she never did on kibble and I fed her what I thought was "quality" kibble.

 

A greyhound and a wolf really aren't all that different (remember my typo stating that wolves and domestic dogs are .2% different in genetic make up? That is a fact that you can find on the internet) and a greyhound and a chihuahua aren't all that different. What IS different is the husky racing the Iditerod, a couch potato greyhound, an obese German Shepard and an underweight lab. They do require different amounts of food, possibly different types of food but again I say "Do your research". Just because the kibble manufacturers make a "light" or "senior" formula doesn't mean it is healthy.

 

You say "It's just we all know that not everything you read on the internet is true and if someone can't back up their claims with hard data you shouldn't assume it's true, especially if they're trying to sell you something. If it sounds too good to be true then it probably is." Again I go back to...if you find a site that says raw is good you will find a site that says raw is bad. There isn't any hard data on feeding raw because nobody can benefit from it!! I go by personal experience...isn't that how we find good doctors, lawyers, car mechanics, etc? All by good old word of mouth. Nobody is trying to "sell" the raw diet because, again, nobody benefits monetarily from it. Sure, there are companies like Honest Kitchen, Barfworld, Steve's Real Food, etc that sell a pre-made raw diet but I don't buy it, or recommend it, because I believe all my grey needs is meat, bone and organ, not veggies and fruits. Just because IAMS says their food is the best are we to believe that? Sure, they have data but there is also proof that they abuse their "test dogs". Do I want to support a dog food company that abuses dogs? Hell no!

 

Feeding raw has become more popular as more people are doing it and documenting their experiences. The pet food recall was a decision maker for a LOT of kibble feeders to switch to raw. I belong to several raw feeding groups/forums and have never heard of a dog dying due to eating raw food. Is it a cure all? Absolutely not, even the experienced feeders will tell you that, but does it solve a lot of food allergy problems, skin issues, bowel issues, teeth issues? It sure does. I created this thread to bring another option to grey owners, to educate those that may be interested in feeding raw and are looking for something better than what they currently feed. It is an OPTION, not mandatory. Everyone is free to make a choice just like I did.

 

Agree totally! nice post!

 

[Guest Ola]

Dogs are not obligate carnivores, they are omnivores. Cats are obligate carnivores. Dogs need carbohydrates in their diets - not as much as us but certainly not so little that you can eliminate them all together.

I think there is a difference between not being an obligate carnivore and needing carbohydrates, don't you think? That's a bit of a leap in logic there. The fact that they are not obligate simply means that they can survive without eating meat.

 

Also, if you look at dogs dentition and digestive tract, you will find that it is not designed to process grains or vegetable matter. They lack flat grinding teeth, their jaw cannot do a side-to-side chewing motion, and their stomachs cannot break down plant cell walls.

 

There is no scientific evidence that raw is better than cooked. I challenge you to find a peer reviewed journal article touting the clear benefits of raw over cooked.

I can tell you (from personal experience only, of course) that raw is easier than cooked. For one, you don't have to cook anything. Also, feeding bone-in raw items provides a built-in calcium source so you don't need to worry about supplementing with eggshells or bone meal which is often of questionable quality. I've also found with my sensitive tummy dog in particular, that he is able to digest raw fat much easier than cooked fat. Now I don't know scientifically why that works, but it does. But as already mentioned there are no peer reviewed studies to show it because who would do one? They are incredibly expensive and thus often sponsored by large companies who are interested in the results.

 

It worries me very much that someone suggested feeding raw pork. Have you ever had the option of ordering your porkchops rare? I hope not because raw pork carries trichenella and toxoplasma parasites which can get you very sick so feeding it to your dogs is a similarly poor choice. When cooked though pork is very cheap and a great alternative to beef and chicken.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/parasi...lness/index.asp (you'll have to scroll a lot)

Taken from your link above:

"The incidence of trichinosis has declined in the United States due to changes in hog feeding practices. Presently, most cases in this country are caused by consumption of raw or undercooked wild game." Really trichinosis is quite rare in the US, Canada, and many European countries when you're feeding farmed and inspected meat.

 

People who can't afford or don't have the time to make a homemade diet shouldn't be made to feel like they're bad owners for not making the big switch.

I don't think anyone is doing that here. We are simply providing information for folks who have indicated the are interested in the raw diet. Sure you can do it badly - you can also feed a cooked or even commercial diet badly and make your dog ill or malnourished. But the folks who seek out info on feeding raw or homemade are not your "average" pet owner, they want to learn and they are putting in effort that the majority of people out there do not. I have to say I also disagree with needing a nutritionist to create a pet diet for you - do I need a nutritionist to feed my family also? I would argue that as long as you know the guidelines you need to follow and you stick to them, you don't need professional help. Perhaps in the case of cooked diets you do, as they seem to be much more complex from what I've seen.

[Guest LunaTygerCat]

I really want to go raw with my grey, but where do I start? I have been mixing raw ground turkey with her kibble and she loves it...so would the next step be just to go with bone in turkey or chicken breasts? Also what woould be recommended for going raw with cats? I would love to just get my babies on raw. Any suggestions?

[Guest myGreyHeart]

Not to change the subject...but a few "basic" raw questions. I've been giving chicken (I did calculate what each needs) for two feedings and for one feeding I add salmon oil or olive oil- should I be adding raw eggs (erm....shell?) I'm a vegan- please excuse my questions on different kinds of meat, (I can say I never tried to force any dog "veg").

>Stupid Question Time!

So chicken now, what kind of beef (er, cut?) is good?-maybe I should ask that of the other meats too. And when the time comes that they can be fed things like organs, kidneys, & hearts...are those just "given"? I know places to purchase, I have never seen them though. I can go to market and say for the first time, "Give me some organs and chicken necks, please."

[Guest Ola]

I really want to go raw with my grey, but where do I start? I have been mixing raw ground turkey with her kibble and she loves it...so would the next step be just to go with bone in turkey or chicken breasts? Also what woould be recommended for going raw with cats? I would love to just get my babies on raw. Any suggestions?

Yup, bone-in chicken breasts are fine, or you can go with chicken leg quarters. I found that turkey bones are a bit harder to digest at first, so I'd start with chicken and then add turkey bone items later. Turkey necks are fairly soft though so you could use those, but they can be tricky to find, whereas chicken quarters or breasts are in every grocery store.

 

Cats are quite similar to how you'd feed dogs, except that they can be resistant to trying new types of food. Try giving them some raw meat (may need to try different types) and see if they'll go for it. Some other differences with cats - you don't want them to go without food for long periods of time because that can be dangerous to them, so if they are refusing raw you have to try to convince them slowly (unlike with a dog, where you could just wait till they get hungry and eat). You'll probably want to stick with 2 meals a day for cats for the same reason. Also, I've heard that many kitties prefer their meat fresh, where with dogs they don't really mind if it's been in your fridge for several days and some even prefer it that way.

[Guest kahjul]

So, I know its only been a few days, but I'm having some issues with the raw thing-any help?? I've been giving my dogs less kibble in the am than normal and 1/4 chicken in the evenings. We're on day 5. The lab has poo that looks like little dry styrofoam balls, ok, less bone for her-that helped. The grey still has the almost liquid poo that she has had from day 1-no matter what she eats. I've been picking it up twice a day to make sure I'm keeping track of it and she has yet to have a normal poo. She is getting the extra bone I cut out of the labs serving. Also the lab goes chew, chew swallow-quick and easy. The grey wants to run around the yard for a few minutes, then eat a bit, then run around some more. It takes her about 10 minutes to eat. This may not seem like long, but I have to seperate them and stand guard. Kind of a hassle. Also, the flies-OMG! Since the grey puts hers down in a million different places before it's gone, I have flies in my backyard like never before. I'm trying really hard to make myself do this until the kibble is gone (probably 3 more weeks), but when will I see positive results in the grey? Oh, and the GAS...worse than ever!

[Guest mcsheltie]

So, I know its only been a few days, but I'm having some issues with the raw thing-any help?? I've been giving my dogs less kibble in the am than normal and 1/4 chicken in the evenings. We're on day 5. The lab has poo that looks like little dry styrofoam balls, ok, less bone for her-that helped. The grey still has the almost liquid poo that she has had from day 1-no matter what she eats. I've been picking it up twice a day to make sure I'm keeping track of it and she has yet to have a normal poo. She is getting the extra bone I cut out of the labs serving. Also the lab goes chew, chew swallow-quick and easy. The grey wants to run around the yard for a few minutes, then eat a bit, then run around some more. It takes her about 10 minutes to eat. This may not seem like long, but I have to seperate them and stand guard. Kind of a hassle. Also, the flies-OMG! Since the grey puts hers down in a million different places before it's gone, I have flies in my backyard like never before. I'm trying really hard to make myself do this until the kibble is gone (probably 3 more weeks), but when will I see positive results in the grey? Oh, and the GAS...worse than ever!

 

If you feed outside (sounds like you do?) let the Lab in when she is done. Then you don't have to stand guard.

 

Do you have a crate the Grey can eat in or a garage? That would take care of the flies.

 

There are a lot of variables to think through on your Grey's loose stools. Here are a few random thoughts.

-Try turkey necks or beef. If she raced she has had beef before. Not all dogs do good with chicken. I have had a fair amount that could eat chicken after we had been feeding raw for a while, but not at first.

-Your Grey might not be able to handle the kibble/raw mix. You could dump the kibble for a week and see if that improves things. You can always feed it to the Lab.

-Was her poo solid on kibble?

-A lot of Greys take longer than five days to tolerate a new kibble, much less raw vs processed.

 

Also what woould be recommended for going raw with cats? I would love to just get my babies on raw. Any suggestions?

 

For cats check out our raw feeding pages - link

[Guest kahjul]

She never raced-we got her as a pup. She is 9 mos old, we have had her for 7 months and in that time she has never had firm stools-not one. She has been to the vet many times-is now perfectly healthy other than this. Her coat, weight and energy are great. She was pretty down nutritionally/healthwise when we got her. The breeder fed Ol' Roy-just poured it into the top of the kennels and the pups fought over it. She had never been out of the 6x6 kennel, with 5 other pups. She was quite ill when we brought her home-wish I could have gotten them all! She only weighed 7 lbs!! Within a month she was up to 19 lbs, and as a smaller female is now tipping the scales at 57. We have tried several different kibbles, she was on Iams puppy at first (because the lab has always done well on Iams). When that wasn't working, we switched to Nutro puppy, avoderm puppy, ca. nat. chicken and rice adult, currently on proplan sensitive stomach. Each of these changes have lasted an entire bag (so about a month) and I've taken 10 days to complete the switch. She gets 1 tblsp yogurt every morning-that helped a bit at first, but now it's just because she likes it so much-she spins her head while she watches me stir it!! I want to do what is best for her, but I'm also so sick of the big D that I'm looking for a miracle.

[Guest mcsheltie]

She never raced-we got her as a pup. She is 9 mos old, we have had her for 7 months and in that time she has never had firm stools-not one. She has been to the vet many times-is now perfectly healthy other than this. Her coat, weight and energy are great. She was pretty down nutritionally/healthwise when we got her. The breeder fed Ol' Roy-just poured it into the top of the kennels and the pups fought over it. She had never been out of the 6x6 kennel, with 5 other pups. She was quite ill when we brought her home-wish I could have gotten them all! She only weighed 7 lbs!! Within a month she was up to 19 lbs, and as a smaller female is now tipping the scales at 57. We have tried several different kibbles, she was on Iams puppy at first (because the lab has always done well on Iams). When that wasn't working, we switched to Nutro puppy, avoderm puppy, ca. nat. chicken and rice adult, currently on proplan sensitive stomach. Each of these changes have lasted an entire bag (so about a month) and I've taken 10 days to complete the switch. She gets 1 tblsp yogurt every morning-that helped a bit at first, but now it's just because she likes it so much-she spins her head while she watches me stir it!! I want to do what is best for her, but I'm also so sick of the big D that I'm looking for a miracle.

That is tough. Once again I'll throw thoughts out as they come to me. So my posts are usually a bit disjointed

 

You may be dealing with a gut that is inflamed from what she went through before you got her and can't digest food properly. That many food changes may be adding to the problem. The inflammation in the gut has never had time to resolve.

 

I've gotten puppies who had a heavy load of Coccidia and even after treating them it took a long time for their stools firm up. I didn't find anything that helped, it resolved itself with time. Sometimes Giardia and Coccidia won't show in stool samples, but they are still there. Have they tested for Clostridium & Campylobacter? If you are absolutely sure none of these four or worms are present you may need to choose a feeding regimen and just stick with it.

 

I have seen dogs that keep getting bacterial overgrowths because their intestines are inflamed for one reason or another. Repeated treatments with Metrodiazole finally got that in check.

 

I would get some good probiotics. Do some research and find a product that guarantees the amount thru the expiration date. Most need to be kept refrigerated, so you might want to start at a local health food store. These have more probiotics than yogurt. Plus you are taking an ingredient (dairy) out of the diet. This won't be a magic bullet, but will help the gut heal itself over time.

 

Are you sure she isn't eating poop? Or have access to deer or other wild animal poop? We have deer in our yard all the time and I have two that get D if they eat it. Dogs love it. They should make a deer poo flavored treat

 

I would still recommend feeding just turkey for a while. I have raw fed countless dogs in ten years and have had a lot that got loose on chicken. But not many on turkey. I can't tell you why! It is an easy food source cause you can find RMBs and organs. You can buy the whole bird and piece meal feed it.

 

That's all I can think of for now.

[Guest kahjul]

Forgot to mention the poop eating. She eats her own and the other dogs. I have had them on the pills for that (can't remember the name) from Pet-co since I noticed it at about 3 months of age. She no longer eats the poop in the yard, but will still snatch at the occasional cat treat if I don't get to it first. Maybe a couple times a month she finds one before me. She won't eat turkey-don't know what thats all about. Not ground, cooked, raw, whole or any form. Her weight and health were so bad at first that the vet had me put her on 'satin balls' a raw ground beef meatball recipe with wheat germ, molasses, cereal, gelatin and I can't remember what else. She had 1 of these daily for 2 months and loved them. She wasn't any better/worse with the D and gas during that time, but they did put weight on.

[Guest greyhound9797]

I really want to go raw with my grey, but where do I start? I have been mixing raw ground turkey with her kibble and she loves it...so would the next step be just to go with bone in turkey or chicken breasts? Also what woould be recommended for going raw with cats? I would love to just get my babies on raw. Any suggestions?

Ooohhh I just replied to your post on the Raw Feeding list. Glad to see you are on GT, too!

 

I suggest reading my original post and going from there. As someone else mentioned, turkey bones can be a bit tough to digest. Piper, minus about 15 teeth, has a difficult time chewing them and will have bony stool after. Bone-in chicken breasts or a leg quarter are a great place to start. And as I mentioned on the Raw Feeding list...don't "wean" just jump right in!

 

Sandra in FL

[Guest greyhound9797]

Not to change the subject...but a few "basic" raw questions. I've been giving chicken (I did calculate what each needs) for two feedings and for one feeding I add salmon oil or olive oil- should I be adding raw eggs (erm....shell?) I'm a vegan- please excuse my questions on different kinds of meat, (I can say I never tried to force any dog "veg").

>Stupid Question Time!

So chicken now, what kind of beef (er, cut?) is good?-maybe I should ask that of the other meats too. And when the time comes that they can be fed things like organs, kidneys, & hearts...are those just "given"? I know places to purchase, I have never seen them though. I can go to market and say for the first time, "Give me some organs and chicken necks, please."

Olive oil, no; salmon oil, yes. It's not necessary to add any egg shell unless they aren't eating bone. The shell provides the needed calcium. If you want to feed a raw egg as part of the meal, go right ahead. Piper gets them every now and then and enjoys them.

 

Any type of beef MEAT is great but don't feed beef bone. It is too dense for dogs' teeth and will only cause dental damage. Beef heart is an excellent choice, if it is available in your area, but too much of it may cause loose stools.

 

Heart, gizzards, tongue and tripe/stomach are all fed as meat, not organ. After maybe a month you will want to start adding a bit of liver but in small amounts. Same for kidney, spleen, brain or any other organ. Remember, liver is only 5% of their diet and "other" organ is another 5% so don't overdo it.

 

Kudos to you for being vegan but knowing the correct way to feed your dog! There are many vegans on the raw feeding lists I belong to but they are confident in feeding meat to their canines.

 

Sandra in FL

[Guest greyhound9797]

Forgot to mention the poop eating. She eats her own and the other dogs. I have had them on the pills for that (can't remember the name) from Pet-co since I noticed it at about 3 months of age. She no longer eats the poop in the yard, but will still snatch at the occasional cat treat if I don't get to it first. Maybe a couple times a month she finds one before me. She won't eat turkey-don't know what thats all about. Not ground, cooked, raw, whole or any form. Her weight and health were so bad at first that the vet had me put her on 'satin balls' a raw ground beef meatball recipe with wheat germ, molasses, cereal, gelatin and I can't remember what else. She had 1 of these daily for 2 months and loved them. She wasn't any better/worse with the D and gas during that time, but they did put weight on.

I strongly recommend nixing the kibble altogether and feeding only raw. If she has had loose stool since you got her, chances are it's the kibble that is the culprit.

 

Sandra in FL