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Raw Feeding Basics


Guest greyhound9797

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Guest cgl0909

We have been thinking about going raw for our pups. I have been doing some reading on feeding raw and came across one source stating feeding raw can give you dog worms and parasites. Does anyone have any trouble with worms or parasites while feeding raw? I don't regularly worm our guys since they have preventive in their heart worm (Iverheart Max)and have not had symptoms of worms. I thought we would start out only feeding one dog raw to see how it went. Any advice and/or suggestions are welcomed. I want to make sure I do this right for our guys. Thanks!

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Guest greyhound9797

I don't mean to sound "smart" but if feeding raw gave dogs worms and parasites nobody would do it. It is an excellent, the best in my opinion, way to feed; it's what nature intended.

 

It's not for everyone - there are those that can't stand the sight, smell or texture of raw meat (but you still have to admit it's what our hounds need) and many other reasons people give not to feed raw. But it is easy and it's not as expensive as you might think (as long as you don't feed the pre-packaged stuff).

 

Piper has been raw fed for 3 years and many others on this forum, as well as others, have been feeding raw for years and years. Truly, there is no reason to "experiment" with it and feed just one dog. When the others see what that one lucky dog is getting and how he reacts to "real" food, the others will be jealous!

 

Sandra in FL

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Guest Swifthounds

What Sandra said. :D

 

Only someone who doesn't feed raw would think that it will lead to parasite infestation. In fact, the opposite is true. Things like intestinal parasites are naturally present in GI tracts. It's when the immune system is compromised or incomplete (hence, why puppies and old/infirm dogs see more parasite infestations) that things get out of control.

 

I've never had worms in adult hounds and I've never used those sill "combo" heartworm & intestinal worm "controllers." It is a mighty popular marketing gimmick, though.

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We've been feeding raw for over 5 years now and we haven't had any issues with worms or parasites during that time. We don't deworm but do run a stool sample at the vets (they seem to like doing this during checkup appointments) and they've all come back clean.

 

I also agree that starting with one dog seems like an odd idea. Especially since different dogs react differently and one may need some adjustments in their diet that others would not. I just don't see what the benefit of that would be. Just keep it simple at first to reduce any digestive upset (single protein, no organ meat, no supplements, no veggies, no grains).

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Guest cgl0909

Thanks for the info. I had gotten books that are for and against raw feedings to get both sides before I started. Only one book mentioned anything about worms. I only wanted to start with one dog for a few reasons. One, to make sure that WE (not the dog) like feeding raw and wanted to continue it. Two, our borzoi (who is 8 years old) currently has not been having firm stools and didn't want to change his diet with an already upset stomach. I have been wondering if raw might would help him, though.

 

I have gotten 10lbs of chicken quarters. I have read these were the best to start with. I understand that most people say feed a ratio of 80/10/5/5 and to feed 2-3% of their ideal weight. Our girl is 67lbs and looks good. So, she would need about 1.5lbs a day to maintain, correct? For starting her out we should be giving her a chicken quarter in the am and pm and continue this for about a week? If she is fine with that try her on another protein? Does that sound about right? After a few weeks start adding in salmon oil and liver/organ meat? Should I worry about her getting constipated while I am only giving her the quarters because of the calcium from the bone? Sorry for all the questions. I just want to make sure that I am going about this the right way.

 

Thanks!

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Two, our borzoi (who is 8 years old) currently has not been having firm stools and didn't want to change his diet with an already upset stomach. I have been wondering if raw might would help him, though.

Raw is the only thing that got my grey to have firm stools, so I would definitely try it.

 

I have gotten 10lbs of chicken quarters. I have read these were the best to start with. I understand that most people say feed a ratio of 80/10/5/5 and to feed 2-3% of their ideal weight. Our girl is 67lbs and looks good. So, she would need about 1.5lbs a day to maintain, correct? For starting her out we should be giving her a chicken quarter in the am and pm and continue this for about a week? If she is fine with that try her on another protein? Does that sound about right? After a few weeks start adding in salmon oil and liver/organ meat? Should I worry about her getting constipated while I am only giving her the quarters because of the calcium from the bone? Sorry for all the questions. I just want to make sure that I am going about this the right way.

Yup, that all sounds like a very good plan - clearly you've been doing your research! :) Normally the higher amount of bone in chicken quarters is just fine and prevents any loose stools that might otherwise appear with the switch to raw. Very few dogs are bothered by that, but if you get very dry, crumbly stools then you may want to add a second protein sooner rather than later or intro the organs sooner.

 

And although you didn't say, I'll mention it just in case - add the salmon and organ meat in very small quantities at first. For a large dog with no tummy issues I'd do a tablespoon of liver at first (like a measuring spoon, not like a soup spoon - those are big!). For a large dog with a sensitive tummy or a small/medium dog I'd do a teaspoon of liver. Salmon start with 1 capsule per day if they haven't had it before (slower for a sensitive tummy). And with these be ready to back off and go a bit slower if you see loose stools.

 

But it sounds like you're well prepared, have fun!

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I have gotten 10lbs of chicken quarters. I have read these were the best to start with. I understand that most people say feed a ratio of 80/10/5/5 and to feed 2-3% of their ideal weight. Our girl is 67lbs and looks good. So, she would need about 1.5lbs a day to maintain, correct? For starting her out we should be giving her a chicken quarter in the am and pm and continue this for about a week? If she is fine with that try her on another protein? Does that sound about right? After a few weeks start adding in salmon oil and liver/organ meat? Should I worry about her getting constipated while I am only giving her the quarters because of the calcium from the bone? Sorry for all the questions. I just want to make sure that I am going about this the right way.

 

Thanks!

 

 

I have to say that I actually checked Monty's appreciation for raw using turkey necks - which are a LOT of bone and didn't cause much digestive upset for him. When I give him chicken leg quarters I have to remove the skin and some of the extra fat because those will cause pudding-poo. Ugh. Some dogs need the skin removed and some handle it just fine, and some can have it later but not at first. Monty's a delicate boy in the digestive department. Turkey necks and beef work for him (or, if we're lucky, venison). Sometimes chicken leg quarters when they're too cheap to pass up (but they still soften things considerably - I think because the cheap ones are really fatty).

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Guest greyhound9797

Thanks for the info. I had gotten books that are for and against raw feedings to get both sides before I started. Only one book mentioned anything about worms. I only wanted to start with one dog for a few reasons. One, to make sure that WE (not the dog) like feeding raw and wanted to continue it. Two, our borzoi (who is 8 years old) currently has not been having firm stools and didn't want to change his diet with an already upset stomach. I have been wondering if raw might would help him, though.

 

I have gotten 10lbs of chicken quarters. I have read these were the best to start with. I understand that most people say feed a ratio of 80/10/5/5 and to feed 2-3% of their ideal weight. Our girl is 67lbs and looks good. So, she would need about 1.5lbs a day to maintain, correct? For starting her out we should be giving her a chicken quarter in the am and pm and continue this for about a week? If she is fine with that try her on another protein? Does that sound about right? After a few weeks start adding in salmon oil and liver/organ meat? Should I worry about her getting constipated while I am only giving her the quarters because of the calcium from the bone? Sorry for all the questions. I just want to make sure that I am going about this the right way.

 

Thanks!

Ohhh, you HAVE been reading up on the topic! Good for you (AND your dogs).

 

I have to be honest and say that there truly aren't any good books on feeding raw. I've read 3 or 4 and I think all of them recommend feeding "veggie glop". That IS one way of feeding raw, commonly known as BARF, but I feed a prey model diet - meat, bones and organ and nothing else (I do add salmon oil though).

 

I would think that if your Borzoi has constant loose stool that a change in diet is exactly what is needed. As Ola mentioned, raw actually cured the problem with her dog.

 

Feeding raw is not as simple as tossing some kibble in a bowl and walking away but it is NOT complicated and extremely time consuming. It DOES take a bit more time and preparation but your dogs are worth it (I hope you feel the same way). There can be some "ick factor" with it - I once fed a pigs head (yuck), I feed brains (yuck again) and the texture of spleen grosses me out but I am doing this for my dog, not my own comfort.

 

Your calculation of 1.5 pounds per day is correct. Of course that may vary in time if you notice him getting thinner or heavier; you can always decrease or increase the amount of food. Some people feed twice per day, some just once (that's me) but for right now I would stick to the feeding schedule he is accustomed to. If he doesn't have loose or hard stools within a week you can add a new protein (pork is good and usually very cheap). As Ola said, when you are ready to add the oil and liver/organs, go very slowly - tiny amounts. In a bit of time you can increase them to the appropriate amount. I would start with liver OR organ, not both at the same time. As with any new food, constipation is possible, as is diarrhea. If he experiences either simply adjust the amount of bone.

 

You are on the right track and doing well. Good luck and let us know your progress.

 

Sandra in FL

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Guest cgl0909

Thanks for the support! Well, both of them were feed raw today. I was surprised at how quickly they both ate their chicken quarters. I was worried that our zoi gobbled his too quickly, but he didn't choke at all. I am assuming as long as they don't choke they are fine. They were both ready for their chicken tonight. I don't think I have ever seen them so excited for food before! Eleanor seems to be doing fine with the raw food. She had a normal poop. Our guys is still loose, but I expect it will take a few days for it to firm up. I am hoping feeding raw will do the trick. I got some probiotics to give him with his food as well.

 

Question: We have a local processing plant who makes what they call "pet food". It has meet, organs, liver, etc in it. They ground everything together and sell it a dollar a pound. Will this be good to get as their liver/organ food. They cannot guarantee exactly what and how much of what is in it every week. The mixture changes according to what animals they have been slaughtering and how much leftover stuff they have.

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I'm not a fan of ground stuff, it has no tooth cleaning benefits so I definitely wouldn't make it a very big part of the diet. Because it varies in composition I'd be concerned about your sensitive tummy dog. Actually neither of my dogs can handle a large amount of organ fed at one time as they're not used to it, and it has resulted in "middle of the night" trips outside before.

 

Also, I'd be concerned about the quality since it's not meant for human consumption. This doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong with it but I'd want to check with other local raw feeders and maybe see how it's handled first.

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Guest cgl0909

I don't like not knowing exactly what is in the mix either. I didn't know if most people used something like this as their liver/organ feed. Do you mostly just chop up everything (when giving liver or organ)and let them go at it? How often is recommended feeding liver/organ?

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I don't chop up anything really. When I get liver I just cut off a chunk the right size for each dog, and feed it. Then the rest I cut into meal size portions and freeze that way (so when I take it out I just do one cut and have a portion for each of my two dogs). Similar with spleen when I have access to it and other organs that are large. Pork kidneys I just freeze so that each is separated.

 

Typically I add organ meat to their meals about 2-3 times per week, but really it depends. I usually will put some in if there's a more boney meal that they're having, just to balance it out.

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Guest greyhound9797

Thanks for the support! Well, both of them were feed raw today. I was surprised at how quickly they both ate their chicken quarters. I was worried that our zoi gobbled his too quickly, but he didn't choke at all. I am assuming as long as they don't choke they are fine. They were both ready for their chicken tonight. I don't think I have ever seen them so excited for food before! Eleanor seems to be doing fine with the raw food. She had a normal poop. Our guys is still loose, but I expect it will take a few days for it to firm up. I am hoping feeding raw will do the trick. I got some probiotics to give him with his food as well.

 

Question: We have a local processing plant who makes what they call "pet food". It has meet, organs, liver, etc in it. They ground everything together and sell it a dollar a pound. Will this be good to get as their liver/organ food. They cannot guarantee exactly what and how much of what is in it every week. The mixture changes according to what animals they have been slaughtering and how much leftover stuff they have.

Piper never got excited for kibble but when she started on raw she danced for dinner every night!

 

If Elton eats too quickly he may still throw it up shortly after he eats. It will come up the same way it went down, with the addition of some slime. Piper will do that every now and then but it's nothing to be concerned about. Just let him eat it again. Also, you can slow him down by feeding him larger food that he has to work on. Maybe a half chicken and then pick up what is left after he eats the approximate amount he should be getting each meal.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Sandra in FL

 

I would pass on the ground mix unless you know for sure exactly what is going into it. As Ola mentioned, it probably isn't human grade food, or once was but it's the stuff that fell on the floor, or is older or any number of things that may affect the quality of the food. Sure, it's a great price but I prefer knowing exactly what I am feeding. Too much organ can cause loose stools so you would never know exactly how much you were feeding.

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Guest Longdog

Cushtie is 3 weeks into a changeover diet from kibble to raw, to aid his ageing kidneys. At the moment he has whole chicken legs, wings and backs, he practically inhales the wings, they barely touch the sides, which really worried me to begin with but as is stools are so much better I am convinced that this diet is going to suit him. I get minced beef and chuck steak which is rather expensive here in the UK but he is worth it! There is no waste now whereas I was throwing away bowls of uneaten kibble.

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Guest greyhound9797

Cushtie is 3 weeks into a changeover diet from kibble to raw, to aid his ageing kidneys. At the moment he has whole chicken legs, wings and backs, he practically inhales the wings, they barely touch the sides, which really worried me to begin with but as is stools are so much better I am convinced that this diet is going to suit him. I get minced beef and chuck steak which is rather expensive here in the UK but he is worth it! There is no waste now whereas I was throwing away bowls of uneaten kibble.

Chicken legs, backs and wings are all very high in bone and low in meat. I hope you are adding some of the beef to those high bone meals? I wouldn't waste money on wings since he inhales them and there is so little meat on them (they are about 50% bone). I would rather put that towards more meat!

 

Sandra in FL

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Guest cgl0909

We have been doing completely raw for about a week now. Everything is going greyt! I love the small poops! They both have good poops now! Thanks everyone for all the help!

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  • 4 weeks later...
Guest caliebsmom

Any suggestions on good place to get the meat or ideas on getting good deals? Trying to make feeding raw as economical as possible. Also, one of my pups is allergic to beef so I'm guessing that would go for the organs as well. Anyone know if that is a safe assumption? If so, recommendation on other sources for organs? She is also allergic to turkey.

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Guest caliebsmom

She has had it cooked and in kibble. She has battled with IBD and they said that her endoscopy showed evidence of a beef allergy. She has also been AK test by a holistic vet which also indicated an allergy to beef and a milder negative response to turkey. The turkey has been feed cooked as well. It used to help when her IBD flared up but most recently it has not had a positive effect.

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For affordable meat try to find a co-op or buying group in your area. Try googling or look on Yahoo groups. Another good source are various ethnic grocery stores, they tend to have good prices and also carry some strange stuff you wouldn't find in a normal store. Depending on your area you may have luck getting leftover stuff from hunters. I'm guessing that won't happen for a couple more months but I'd start asking around now. A separate freezer would be good for that, and for other bulk buys so you can take advantage of good prices.

 

What I would probably do in your place is start feeding meats other than beef and turkey, and then add a small amount of either beef or turkey to a meal and observe the reaction. Surprisingly many people find that the raw version works out ok even though cooked meat did not. But I would not give a whole meal of it to start with.

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What a well written thread, nicely done everyone! It's really great to see a thread on greytalk de-bunking all the myths that are floating around about raw feeding, and also great to see so many people recommending the modified prey model diet (also known as 80-10-10). I've been feeding my pets raw for 18 years, and in that time I tried many different versions of raw, the modified prey model is by far the easiest and also seems to be best for my pets.

CAMP GREYHOUND

Tempo (Keep the Tempo), Nora (Road Noise) & Gabe the babe (Gable Habenero), Cooper (Uncle Bud's Coop), Topper (Red Top), & Galgos Lisette & Manolito. Missing our beloved angels Cody (Kiowa My Dodie), Lou (Cantankerous Lou), Romi (FingerRoll), Connie (Devie's Concord), Millie (Djays Overhaul), Bailey (Hallo Forty nine), Andy (Iza Handy Boy, and Rocco (Ripley Rocco), Gracie (VS Megan), Eragon the Longdog, Joey (WJS Flashfire), Roy (Folly and Glory)

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I currently feed some raw (mostly for teeth cleaning purposes) – I gave Twiggy a pork neck bone last night (not the first time), and today she had quite a few large-ish and sharp (!) fragments in her stool. Is this common with pork neck bones? I’m a bit concerned, and may not give her these any more (I think others here feed them sometimes).

 

I also give turkey/chicken necks, and just bought (and skinned-yech) some chicken leg quarters and drumsticks, as I would like to introduce raw as a larger part of her diet. To that end, I also bought chicken livers, and a package of chicken hearts and gizzards to supplement the clq’s and drumsticks.

 

And now for a stupid question on the hearts/gizzards. As a 25-year veggie, I don’t know how to tell the difference. It should be obvious, as I do know what a heart looks like, but in a 1.25 lb pack, I only found one bit that looked like a heart! Most bits looked like several pieces of some sort of organ connected by ligaments. Are the gizzards joined to the hearts and need to be separated out, or by “mostly gizzards” did they mean 99.9% gizzards?? As for why I care which is which – I want to save the hearts to use as the taurine source in a raw recipe for the kitties.

Wendy with Twiggy, fosterless while Twiggy's fighting the good fight, and Donnie & Aiden the kitties

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Guest Swifthounds

She has had it cooked and in kibble. She has battled with IBD and they said that her endoscopy showed evidence of a beef allergy. She has also been AK test by a holistic vet which also indicated an allergy to beef and a milder negative response to turkey. The turkey has been feed cooked as well. It used to help when her IBD flared up but most recently it has not had a positive effect.

 

 

It may or may not hold true for raw beef. Beyond that, even if your hound can't tolerate beef muscle meat, whether organs would be tolerated depends on what the body is overrreacting to. In either case, you'll only know if raw produces the same overreaction if you try. That's something to do with only a little bit added in to other foods, and much further into raw feeding (like 6+ months).

 

There are plenty of inexpensive items you can feed. Pork is a good, affordable, red meat. Pork shoulders (or picnics) can be had around here for .69 to 1.19 per pound. If you don't have a chest freezer, they're a good investment for buying in bulk or stocking up when foods are on sale at the supermarket. You can also try the "CarnivoreFeed-Supplier" list on Yahoo or search Yahoo groups for co-ops in your area.

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Guest caliebsmom

Thanks for the tips everyone. We do have a chest freezer so we'll start stocking up. We have started with chicken and both dogs are doing great. Our allergy girl is looking better than she has in years. Her fur is growing in thicker than ever even in some spots where she had lost it due to the allergies. After we are six months in or so, we'll try small amounts of beef and turkey and see how she does with it raw.

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