Bioflow Magnetic Collar From Uk

[Guest gryhnd3]

If you have tried this (or know someone that has), how long did it take before you saw results - assuming it appeared to help your dog/cat? I am not too optimistic, but have read the testimonials and figured it was worth a try. I just ordered it today.

[CaliforniaGreys]

I've tried magnets(not a collar though) for arthritis but saw no possitive results what-so-ever

[silverfish]

I had one for Jim, and tried it on Jack too. No noticeable difference here, either.

[ahicks51]

If you want, I offer a similar collar; it does exactly the same thing, but the rate at which money leaves your wallet is slightly slower...!

[Guest gryhnd3]

Well, I didn't really have my hopes up, but figured I would try anyway. I thought I had read one thread where someone said that collar did help their dog. I'll definitely post if it seems to help. I am also waiting for the only accupuncture vet in the area to look at his records and let me know if she thinks she can help. I'm sure he does have arthritis since he's 13, but the problem we are dealing with is diskospondylosis (vertebrae fusing together), seen in an xray in June. His back end is going, has never been strong, but has gotten significantly worse recently.

[brandimom]

If you want, I offer a similar collar; it does exactly the same thing, but the rate at which money leaves your wallet is slightly slower...!

 

Oh you are too funny

 

[scullysmum]

I bought one of these for my bridgekid Scully before I found out that his lameness was caused by nerve damage and not arthritis as I had thought, so it didn't have much affect on him....however, an aquaintance of mine swears by hers on her elderly GSD.

[ahicks51]

I'm sure he does have arthritis since he's 13, but the problem we are dealing with is diskospondylosis (vertebrae fusing together), seen in an xray in June. His back end is going, has never been strong, but has gotten significantly worse recently.

 

I've gone around and around through the literature, and I'm not at all sure if spondylosis deformans in the dog (probably related to diskospondylosis- I'd have to check) is related to ankylosing spondylosis in humans. There's been a lot of discussion, and I think they're different diseases. BUT- if they're not, the leading theory (these days) as to the cause and origin of ankylosing spondylosis (AS) is that it's a form of molecular mimicry; the body confuses the proteins of another organism with its own. When it tries to purge the organism, it ends up attacking its own tissues, i.e.: autoimmune disease. The candidate proposed by a (now retired) rheumatologist in the UK is Klebsiella pneumoniae, and the proposed protein is pullulanase. Pullulanase is produced when the organism breaks down amylopectin starch.

 

So, the theory goes, take the starch out of the diet, and the klebsiella doesn't produce the enzyme that starts the autoimmune assault. I don't think there have been any studies on the efficacy of a diet without starch in folks with AS.

 

Anyway- net upshot, there's about three "ifs" and a "then" in there, but if it's the same disease (or a similar mechanism), then dogs with spondylosis deformans probably shouldn't be fed starch. The biggest source of starch in the diets of dogs is the grains they are fed.

 

But all this is purely hypothetical. There's no money or interest in studying this sort of thing.

[Guest gryhnd3]

That is interesting, though I wonder if stopping starches at this point would be able to help something that has progressed to the point of major symptoms (assuming it would help at all of course) - I suppose it might stop it from further progression though ... What I have read about spondylosis, it sounds like many times it's found on an xray even though the dog has no symptoms. In Derby's case though, he is suddenly having trouble walking. I do think a lot of health problems are related to autoimmune issues. I have been leery of grain-free foods in general due to the higher level of protein (and I had no reason to switch). However, he does not have any kidney problems that we know of. I see Fromm has a grain-free food that is 30% protein, which is a lot lower than some, though still higher than what we normally feed. I'd need to find grain-free canned also, since mostly he is only eating his kibble with a lot of canned mixed in. Thanks for the information!

[ahicks51]

That is interesting, though I wonder if stopping starches at this point would be able to help something that has progressed to the point of major symptoms (assuming it would help at all of course) - I suppose it might stop it from further progression though ... What I have read about spondylosis, it sounds like many times it's found on an xray even though the dog has no symptoms. In Derby's case though, he is suddenly having trouble walking. I do think a lot of health problems are related to autoimmune issues. I have been leery of grain-free foods in general due to the higher level of protein (and I had no reason to switch). However, he does not have any kidney problems that we know of. I see Fromm has a grain-free food that is 30% protein, which is a lot lower than some, though still higher than what we normally feed. I'd need to find grain-free canned also, since mostly he is only eating his kibble with a lot of canned mixed in. Thanks for the information!

 

The going theory is that cutting out the starch may slow or halt the progression of the disease; damage that has already occurred would not be repaired.

 

Spondylosis deformans is common to dogs, often without signs of debilitation, yes. Some breeds (boxers come to mind) suffer from it more frequently than other breeds.

 

Don't sweat the protein levels in grain-free food. Once you take out the carbohydrates from the starches, the other caloric sources must balance. Carbs down, protein and fats up. Simply put, grains are not a natural component of the canine diet; they are added to ease processing and storage, and decrease the per-pound cost. They afford little benefit that is intrinsic to canine health, while causing debilitation- starting with the teeth.

[Guest gryhnd3]

The going theory is that cutting out the starch may slow or halt the progression of the disease; damage that has already occurred would not be repaired.

 

Spondylosis deformans is common to dogs, often without signs of debilitation, yes. Some breeds (boxers come to mind) suffer from it more frequently than other breeds.

 

Don't sweat the protein levels in grain-free food. Once you take out the carbohydrates from the starches, the other caloric sources must balance. Carbs down, protein and fats up. Simply put, grains are not a natural component of the canine diet; they are added to ease processing and storage, and decrease the per-pound cost. They afford little benefit that is intrinsic to canine health, while causing debilitation- starting with the teeth.

 

Thanks again. I guess there is really no reason not to try it then. He is not eating well at all though, so we go through kibble rather slowly as I have to mix a hamburger or canned into it, but if it would at least slow or halt progression, that would be good.

Seems like you have done a lot of research on this. Not to change the subject (suppose this should be separate thread...) but do you have any knowledge of best treatment? My regular vet just moved away last week Of course there are other vets in the practice I will have to talk to, but we saw her 99% of the time. He had already been on Deramaxx for a short time, so she said try that first, but she had suggested Prednisone as alternative. Don't want to switch to Pred if I don't have to, but from what I've read, some people do use it as treatment for spondylosis.

[ahicks51]

This site claims it's due to infection, and that antibiotic therapy is called for. I know nothing more about it.

[Guest gryhnd3]

That's a different illness, from what I understand - "itis" instead of "osis".

[ahicks51]

D'OH! OK. This site says diskospondylosis is the same as spondylosis deformans:

 

http://www.familyvet.com/Dogs/Nervous.html

 

And it's managed pretty much how you think it'd be managed: NSAIDs and cortisol.

 

I would say that- if the disease is the same as ankylosing spondylitis in humans (which it probably isn't)- you might be able to play with a few nutritional variables on top of taking away the grains. Specifically: fish oil can lower the response of tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-alpha). One of the "heavy hitter" class of drugs for AS includes TNF-alpha drugs, all of which are toxic and very dangerous- and only for use in humans. They cost several thousand dollars per shot, at one per month. But TNF-alpha can be "toyed" with using fish oil, vitamin D, zinc, and selenium- in humans. No idea what this means in the canine. I'd have to really hit the books to guess the best levels for immunomodulation.

 

Other pure stab in the dark: controlled hookworm colonization, preferably Uncinaria stenocephala. But that would be tricky and very involved on your part. Plus, no sane vet would ever go for it. But hooks cleverly modulate Th1/Th2 response in favor of anti-inflammatory activity. A couple of folks on here have wondered aloud (or at least typed) that the advent of GI and autoimmune disease seems to be once dogs are in homes- by which point they have been carefully wormed, of course. If SD is autoimmune in this sense, it is conceivable the absence of helminths could be a mitigating factor.