Flagyl

[Guest lauri]

Is anyone's dog on an everyday dose of Flagyl for IBD or other stomach/intestinal disorder?

 

The vet said Miles may need to be on this drug daily...maybe for life. I've read it's got bad side effects if taken for a long time.

 

Once again, three days after the last dose of the Flagyl, the tummy pain, shivering, crying and stomach noises all came back. Today he was a mess and my husband picked up a month's worth and some Tramadol for the pain.

 

Being that it has anti-inflammatory properties, he was improved after the first dose and had an episode a couple of days off the meds pretty much speaks for itself.

 

Our next and only other step is exploratory surgery and biopsies, which I'd like to avoid.

[Batmom]

Make yourself aware of possible side effects, but relax. There are a few dogs who have bad reactions to flagyl. Most don't. It's a drug that's safe for most dogs to take for years. If he's better while he's on it, I'd leave him on it.

 

Hugs and best luck.

[Guest mandm]

If you think he'll be on it long term, you could give him Tylan instead. I've used both. Metronidazole is easier to administer because it already comes in pill form, but as I understand it, Tylan has fewer potential side effects and can be safely given long term. Tylan (Tylosin) is a powder that comes in a tub. It tastes very bitter, so it's best to put the powder in empty gelatin capsules and then pill the dog.

[ahicks51]

Whatcha feeding him?

 

There are anecdotal data to support the notion that too much vegetable matter in the 'ol food bowl (grains and other dog-inappropriate chow) may cause IBD.

[dmswartzfager]

I looked up Flagyl (metronidazole) in the Veterinary Drug Handbook, and it said that there are possible central nervous system effects that are seen in some dogs on chronic therapy. Those side effects can be controlled with diazepam (valium) and the CNS effects disappear over the course of several days after the flagyl is stopped.

 

This is not one of the drugs I would be overly concerned about using on my own dogs. (And it looks like we may have to use it with Blitz when potentially stressful situations arise - just dose him before, during, and after the stressful event - he's on it now, in fact.) As Jey said, be aware of the *possible* side effects but otherwise relax.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Is Miles the one with a possible ulcer? If so, I would try some stronger antibiotics, to see if that takes care of the infection. If not, the Flagyl might be the way to go.

[Guest Greytminds]

As we have seen first hand what FLAGYL can potentialey do to a pet. I would strongly consider alternatives if possible. Consider the side effect even if a pet does not show neurological signs there are other issues with long term use. If your pet is on any other medication flagyl can effect the the level of the dosage as it speeds up the brekdown through the liver .

 

Lucky was a walking drug store and special vet formula dog food mixed with pasta and chop meat as his diet. He was on Flagyl, Pheno, Pottasium Bromide as well as antibiotics for intestinal issues. He was a good 15 lbs over weight.

We put him on a cooked diet and has been free of meds except for PHENO and PBI. These drugs need to be weaned slowly. He is well on his way on the weaning process.

 

I say this because there are consequenses to perscription drugs and should be weighed before given. I strongly believe in the home cooked diet. We researched every aspect of it prior to starting Lucky on it. He has come a long way and I do believe its because of the diet not the meds.

 

Please consider everything when making your decission. I am more then happy in discussing this off line with you if you would like. If you have not done so Already please read EmilyAnnes blog The Healthy Hound. she and I have compared notes and all info regarding the diet as well as meds can be found there.

 

Good Luck

And Hoping for a HEATHY HAPPY HOUND

 

Paul

[Fiona3]

We had a dog with severe IBD. Nothing seemed to help. Eventually he was placed on 250 mg. of Flagyl once a day. We saw a huge improvement, he gained back some of the weight he lost and did very well for another 2 years until he passed away at the age of 15 years from a heart condition. Good luck with Miles -

it is a frustrating disease to treat.

[lovinggreysslp]

Clay was on flagyl (and a combination of other medication) for six months (for IBD and PLE) but started having side effects in the form of head nodding. We cut the dose in half and added Tylan powder. The tylan really helped. We did have to order vegetarian gel caps and put the powder in our selves because Clay was so sensitive to proteins that he could not tolerate regular gel caps. I have read that some dogs have no side effects at all on longterm flagy use.

[Guest EmilyAnne]

I would try home-cooked first.

 

If that doesn't work, and there's no alternative, I'd be sure to head into the Flagyl experience armed with knowledge and awareness of what symptoms to look for.

 

I now research both what the side effects are for humans taking the drug, and what the side effects are for dogs taking the drug. I wish I had done this before I put Henry on Flagyl. I could have spared him of so much.

 

By the way, for a dog with epilepsy, I would NEVER use Flagyl.

[Guest KennelMom]

I've given flagyl lots of times to lots of dogs...never had any side effects and it always works great. EVERY drug has side effects. Like Batmom says, just make yourself aware of them. If flagyl is what he needs to live a normal life, then I'd have no qualms giving it long term and taking things as they come.

[Burpdog]

Some dogs have bad side effects from flagyl, however I've been lucky and anyone I've used it on have been fine. I asked my vet once about the seizure issue and his comment was usually when that happens it's overdosed. All of mine have had 500mg twice a day, or 250mg twice a day. I've heard of way higher doses and I cringe.

 

Tylan is an alternative if you can get them to take it! Stuffing pills is time consuming. Even Burp, who would eat anything, refused his food with it on.

 

How long was he on flagyl? Sometimes they need a 3-4 week dose to cure whatever is ailing them.

[Guest EmilyAnne]

Some dogs have bad side effects from flagyl, however I've been lucky and anyone I've used it on have been fine. I asked my vet once about the seizure issue and his comment was usually when that happens it's overdosed. All of mine have had 500mg twice a day, or 250mg twice a day. I've heard of way higher doses and I cringe.

 

Tylan is an alternative if you can get them to take it! Stuffing pills is time consuming. Even Burp, who would eat anything, refused his food with it on.

 

How long was he on flagyl? Sometimes they need a 3-4 week dose to cure whatever is ailing them.

Because those are the warnings given for dogs by the makers of the drug. It is silent about any increased risk for dogs wth epilepsy, yet, for humans, they warn it has a high likelihood to increase seizures in those who have epilepsy. Henry did not overdose at all, and he had increased seizure activity within a few hours of the first dose. Before this, he only seized on average once every three months. In the next 4 months he seized 13 times. I didn't fgure out the connection to the Flagyl right off, cause my vet told me the same thing that was told to Burpdog.

 

Sorry to hijack the thread, I like to get the word out there in case anyone with dog with epilepsy is reading this thread.

Edited August 16, 2008 by EmilyAnne

[Guest KennelMom]

Metronidizole is not specifically approved for veterinary use, but I found this in the verterinary package insert:

 

The following side/adverse effects have been selected on the basis of

their potential clinical significance (possible signs and, for

humans, symptoms in parentheses where appropriate)—not

necessarily inclusive:

Those indicating need for medical attention

Neurologic disturbances (ataxia, nystagmus, seizures, tremors,

weakness)—usually with high dosage in cats, dogs, and horses,{R-31;

32} although signs have been reported with doses as low as 30

mg/kg.{R-41}

 

Reading that, I would not be surprised it caused seizures in a dog with epilepsy. I'd be curious to ask my vet the next time I see him to see what his opinion is of prescribing flagyl to dogs with epilipsy.

[Guest lauri]

Some dogs have bad side effects from flagyl, however I've been lucky and anyone I've used it on have been fine. I asked my vet once about the seizure issue and his comment was usually when that happens it's overdosed. All of mine have had 500mg twice a day, or 250mg twice a day. I've heard of way higher doses and I cringe.

 

Tylan is an alternative if you can get them to take it! Stuffing pills is time consuming. Even Burp, who would eat anything, refused his food with it on.

 

How long was he on flagyl? Sometimes they need a 3-4 week dose to cure whatever is ailing them.

 

 

Funny you should ask. I was wondering how only a week on the medication would help, but as I said in previous posts, the vet wanted to try it with the ZD to see how he did and if it hadn't have worked, then she'd try prednizone...which I don't like that crap either!

 

Of the two 'evils' I'm not sure I'd be any more comfortable with he steroids!

 

As far as home cooked, we're to keep him on this food for 8 weeks total. Then we'll try something else. Maybe I need to research it more. Could be what we need.

 

 

Thanks!

[Guest heidihvt]

I've been through the wringer with IBD with my little chihuahua. Every food (home made and commercial), every medication (canine and human), and did exploratory with biopsies. The only thing that came from the biopsies was a diagnosis of IBD, which we already knew. Quite frustrating but thankfully I'm a vet tech so it was a little "easier" to treat, meaning I had access to meds/vets at all times. What's the most frustrating is that one day the symptoms just seemed to lift and she's now fine with bouts here and there. We never had a true answer and she's on normal food and no meds. Weird. Anyway....as for the flagyl...any medication has possible side effects. In my opinion you have to decide what's the less of two evils oftentimes. Diarrhea or no diarrhea. Or also a medication with more side effects vs a medication with less side effects. No matter what way you look at it it's a catch 22. I've seen IBD patients on Pred long term. Everyone knows that steroids long term are never a good thing, however if this is what keeps the pet comfortable and happy and a possible shorter life it's better than a longer, horrible life, right? In my experience I've never seen any ill side effects from metronidazole and if that's what works then I'd stick to it. Just my 2 cents. If you're interested I'd be glad to send you a history on my Lily. I know no two dogs are the same but it may give you some insight.

[Guest MZH]

For those who want to stuff tylan powder into gel caps, it's pretty easy. One eighth of a tsp seemed to be a standard dose for Cullen, who averaged 78 pounds. The bottom half of our gel caps took about 1/8 tsp. (Gel cap sizes vary, so you'd have to check to see how much fits into your gel caps.)

 

1. Pour some powder into the jar cap or a small dish.

2. Open a bunch of gel caps.

3. Fill the larger half of the cap with the powder; hold your breath and keep your mouth closed or you will be tasting it a while!

4. Put top of gel cap back on and repeat for as many as you want to fill.

 

I used to do a weeks worth in about 5 minutes. Very easy!

 

PS The reason I started stuffing the powder into gel caps is because Cullen wouldn't eat with that bitter powder on his food. I can't say that I blamed him. It's terrible-tasting! Cullen needed to take 1 cap every 3 days to keep his bowels normal. We did start with one cap twice a day and reduced it as he got better.

 

My vets over the years thought I was being too careful when I refused Flagyl for any dog that's had even one seizure, but we're the ones living with them when they got more seizures, not the vets. Thankfully, they've humored me and used something other than Flagyl.

 

Marcia in SC

 

 

 

[ahicks51]

1. Pour some powder into the jar cap or a small dish.

2. Open a bunch of gel caps.

3. Fill the larger half of the cap with the powder; hold your breath and keep your mouth closed or you will be tasting it a while!

4. Put top of gel cap back on and repeat for as many as you want to fill.

 

There are also capsule fillers:

 

http://www.vitaminbungalow.com/pd_now_food...sule_filler.cfm

 

They consist of a tray with holes in it; you put the longer side of the capsule in the hole, then sweep the powder to be encapsulated over the top, filling the capsules. Then put the small ends on, closing the capsule.

 

That's just one; Google for "capsule filler" and there are many makers.

[Guest EmilyAnne]

Metronidizole is not specifically approved for veterinary use, but I found this in the verterinary package insert:

 

OK, now I think this might explain part of it. I would love to know the reason it is not approved for veterinary use. Metronidazole is what Henry was on. Is it not approved for veterinary use due to lack of research on it for canine use? Except Flagyl, which Metronidazole is generic for is approved for veterinary use right?

Edited August 16, 2008 by EmilyAnne

[Guest MZH]

Correct, Emily. I tend to type Flagyl b/c it's MUCH easier to spell than metronidizole. Don't know why it's not approved for vet use. Likely it's not been tested on animals.

 

Thanks for the tip on capsule fillers, AHicks51. I priced them a long time ago and they were kinda pricey, IIRC. $8.54 is a great price! I'll buy one the next time I need one.

 

Marcia in SC

[Guest MZH]

I've been through the wringer with IBD with my little chihuahua. Every food (home made and commercial), every medication (canine and human), and did exploratory with biopsies. The only thing that came from the biopsies was a diagnosis of IBD, which we already knew. Quite frustrating but thankfully I'm a vet tech so it was a little "easier" to treat, meaning I had access to meds/vets at all times. What's the most frustrating is that one day the symptoms just seemed to lift and she's now fine with bouts here and there. We never had a true answer and she's on normal food and no meds. Weird. Anyway....as for the flagyl...any medication has possible side effects. In my opinion you have to decide what's the less of two evils oftentimes. Diarrhea or no diarrhea. Or also a medication with more side effects vs a medication with less side effects. No matter what way you look at it it's a catch 22. I've seen IBD patients on Pred long term. Everyone knows that steroids long term are never a good thing, however if this is what keeps the pet comfortable and happy and a possible shorter life it's better than a longer, horrible life, right? In my experience I've never seen any ill side effects from metronidazole and if that's what works then I'd stick to it. Just my 2 cents. If you're interested I'd be glad to send you a history on my Lily. I know no two dogs are the same but it may give you some insight.

 

When all else fails with bowel issues like your chi has, you might want to ask your vet about Entocort. It's like magic -- at least it was for me. I had intractable diarrhea for years and finally took Entocort. It stopped my diarrhea in 3 days. Even when I had a cecal volvulus requiring emergency surgery last February I had no diarrhea! Flagyl never helped me; I tried lots of other stuff to no avail.

 

After the surgery the big D came back but now that I've recovered from the surgery, it's gone. I don't miss my cecum and part of my colon at all.

 

I have to wonder how many people and pets have a problem with their cecum, which was the cause of my problem basically all my life. It doesn't appear to be diagnosable until the thing twists and causes really big problems. (I don't know; do pets have cecums? That's the part of the bowel that the appendix is attached to.)

 

The Entocort really gave me my life back. I know of a cat who was on it and it worked. Something to consider when all else fails.

 

Marcia in SC

[ahicks51]

Is metronidazole really not licensed for veterinary use? The Merck Veterinary Manual references it 50 times. Here's one interesting reference:

 

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.js...d=metronidazole

 

Note that they suggest the following:

 

"Corticosteroids, azathioprine, sulfasalazine, tylosin, and metronidazole are among the drugs most often used in the management of IBD."

 

All of which are used in humans- along with immunomodulation for us bipeds (too pricey for pets)- for diseases that are frequently rooted in a diet too rich in grains and other vegetable matter.

[Guest EmilyAnne]

I know Potassium Bromide is not approved by the FDA, but is still very widely used.

 

They really should approve Potassium Bromide.

[Guest MZH]

Another great one is Sodium bromide for those who can't tolerate potassium.

 

Don't know who approves these things but they've been in use for decades, so I guess they'll continue to be available. Let's hope.

 

Marcia in SC

Edited August 17, 2008 by MZH

[Guest mandm]

All of which are used in humans- along with immunomodulation for us bipeds (too pricey for pets)- for diseases that are frequently rooted in a diet too rich in grains and other vegetable matter.

 

I tried Flagyl, Tylan, prescription dog foods, home cooked. The only thing that really relieved my greyhound's IBD symptoms was eliminating all carbs/veggies from his diet.