Pain Medication

[Guest ss556]

Alan was taking Traumeel for almost 2 months. I think there was an improvement between that and acupuncture, although he still stumbles/staggers at times. He's seemed to be a little out of it - similar to his reaction to tramadol (not as bad though) so I stopped it a few days ago. I think he is a little different - a little livlier. Again, he has k/d and is shouldn't take NSAIDs. Zeel was suggested by the holistic vet as well. Has anyone had success with these homeopathic meds or any other holistic/homeopathic medications/supplements for hip pain and rear leg weakness? I'm taking Alan tonight for his 6th acupuncture treatment and could use some responses here!

[Burpdog]

Do you have him on Fresh Factors or Joint Health?

[Newgreymom]

Zeel is a great multiple remedy. We use it on Daisy and Dylan if they run to hard and become lame in one leg. You have to use is consistantly. I crush the tablet and give 3 times a day. No food or water for at least 1/2 hour before or after giving remedy. a lot of people don't believe in homeopathy, but it has worked on the dogs and on ME! I use conventional medication when needed but always try holistic when I can. Hope it works for Alan....

[fritofeet]

I know BooMooandDoo carries this product...

DGP

 

I'm waiting on samples for Diesel, but it got raves in the Whole Dog Journal.

 

Hugs for your baby.

 

 

[CaliforniaGreys]

Zeel has great reviews. I've never tried it but have used Arnica and Traumeel for pain which made a big difference. The vet who did Tanner's acupuncture suggested to rub in the Traumeel gel which has arnica in it. Hoping your boy feels better

[Guest ss556]

He takes cosequin ds - 3 tabs daily as per the holistic vet - since he's been on that for sometime now.

The problem I find w/ traumeel and possibly zeel is that you are supposed to take it sublinguilly, but crushing it might just work. I think I'll give that a try.

[Guest HornGreys]

Here is my question to those that are using zeel. Why do you give it 1/2 hour before food or water, and how do they take it without food?

 

Thanks for the information

[CaliforniaGreys]

He takes cosequin ds - 3 tabs daily as per the holistic vet - since he's been on that for sometime now.

The problem I find w/ traumeel and possibly zeel is that you are supposed to take it sublinguilly, but crushing it might just work. I think I'll give that a try.

Get the Traumeel Gel. I rub it on the infected area and it really helps.But if you do decide to try it, be sure not to get the cream. The gel is really easy to massage in.

[Guest taylorsmom]

Actually, a good way to dose a dog (and human too) homeopathically is to melt two of the little pills in some water, then give him a dropper full. My homeopathic vet used to also have me melt it then take two teaspoons out and put that into some plain water, to dilute it even more, and then give it to the dog. It is totally counterintuitive and I could not even begin to explain why, but apparently less is more in homeopathy (think energy rather than substance of drug).

[Guest ss556]

I had bought the traumeel gel and used it a few times and then told the holistic vet and she told me not to use it. I forgot why. I was thinking of using it anyway and then today we realized that Alan injured the ligament in his left knee. I might rub some in tomorrow. I was home today and noticed something even more different in his walking. Oh boy! So we have rear leg weakness, stumbling, hip problems, cervical, mid and lower back issues, left knee ligament, high blood pressure, kidney disease, pannus and a mild heart murmur. He's making me crazy!!!!

 

But I love him sooooo much.

 

Makes sense about the traumeel and zeel products - adding to water - b/c you are supposed to take it under your tongue and let it dissolve.

[Newgreymom]

With homeopathy, water and food can interfere with the remedy. Crushing the pills and giving it that way is the easiest. I've tried the water bit and found crushing is easier for me to administer. Good luck...Prayers for Alan!

[CaliforniaGreys]

I had bought the traumeel gel and used it a few times and then told the holistic vet and she told me not to use it. I forgot why. I was thinking of using it anyway and then today we realized that Alan injured the ligament in his left knee. I might rub some in tomorrow. I was home today and noticed something even more different in his walking. Oh boy! So we have rear leg weakness, stumbling, hip problems, cervical, mid and lower back issues, left knee ligament, high blood pressure, kidney disease, pannus and a mild heart murmur. He's making me crazy!!!!

 

But I love him sooooo much.

 

Makes sense about the traumeel and zeel products - adding to water - b/c you are supposed to take it under your tongue and let it dissolve.

My God, this poor guy. Hoping you can help him to be comfortable. That's a lot to deal with, both Alan and you!! You've got some special prayers coming your way.

[Guest ss556]

Thank you - with all of his "ailments" he is doing pretty good. He loves to eat, still greets me at the door when I come home, looks forward to his rides and likes being with us. He doesn't play with his stuffies anymore and he cannot tolerate a long walk - just a short one around the block. He's being well taken care of:)

[Guest longdogs]

I'm not going to be popular by saying this, but all the evidence suggests homeopathic remedies make the pet's owner feel better while doing little or nothing for the recipient. I for one would never use a homeopathic remedy on a pet in pain.

[CaliforniaGreys]

I'm not going to be popular by saying this, but all the evidence suggests homeopathic remedies make the pet's owner feel better while doing little or nothing for the recipient. I for one would never use a homeopathic remedy on a pet in pain.

I felt exactly as you do, and also felt that way about acupuncture.But if my vet suggests something, I trust him enough to try it. I don't think Homeopathic remedies alone are sufficient for severe pain, but along with traditional meds, they do help. And even if it's just a little, that is that much more comfort I can offer, and that's good enough for me.

[RobinM]

I'm not going to be popular by saying this, but all the evidence suggests homeopathic remedies make the pet's owner feel better while doing little or nothing for the recipient. I for one would never use a homeopathic remedy on a pet in pain.

I felt exactly as you do, and also felt that way about acupuncture.But if my vet suggests something, I trust him enough to try it. I don't think Homeopathic remedies alone are sufficient for severe pain, but along with traditional meds, they do help. And even if it's just a little, that is that much more comfort I can offer, and that's good enough for me.

 

Yup, me too. I can't knock it if it's working!

[Guest longdogs]

The first question has to be, how do you know it's working? In the tests that I've seen, people believed their animals were helped even when they had been given a dummy treatment and a veterinary assessment found no improvement with either dummy or homeopathic treatment. This is really in the realm of psychology rather than veterinary medicine. Homeopathy really might help people with a strong belief in the treatment but just can't work for animals with no concept of such beliefs. As you say, if the pet is also receiving an effective drug, the homeopathic treatment does no harm (I would also maintain it does no actual good either). The problem comes with people replacing the drug with a 'remedy' that will not relieve the pain. Not challenging the use of these remedies leads people to assume that they are reasonable treatment alternatives. They are not.

Edited June 18, 2008 by longdogs

[RobinM]

The first question has to be, how do you know it's working? In the tests that I've seen, people believed their animals were helped even when they had been given a dummy treatment and a veterinary assessment found no improvement with either dummy or homeopathic treatment. This is really in the realm of psychology rather than veterinary medicine. Homeopathy really might help people with a strong belief in the treatment but just can't work for animals with no concept of such beliefs. As you say, if the pet is also receiving an effective drug, the homeopathic treatment does no harm (I would also maintain it does no actual good either). The problem comes with people replacing the drug with a 'remedy' that will not relieve the pain. Not challenging the use of these remedies leads people to assume that they are reasonable treatment alternatives. They are not.

 

Then you should definitely not waste your money on any homeopathic remedys

[Guest taylorsmom]

The first question has to be, how do you know it's working? In the tests that I've seen, people believed their animals were helped even when they had been given a dummy treatment and a veterinary assessment found no improvement with either dummy or homeopathic treatment. This is really in the realm of psychology rather than veterinary medicine. Homeopathy really might help people with a strong belief in the treatment but just can't work for animals with no concept of such beliefs. As you say, if the pet is also receiving an effective drug, the homeopathic treatment does no harm (I would also maintain it does no actual good either). The problem comes with people replacing the drug with a 'remedy' that will not relieve the pain. Not challenging the use of these remedies leads people to assume that they are reasonable treatment alternatives. They are not.

This is interesting--do you have a reference for the tests and research you refer to?

As a psychologist, I would maintain that these treatments can go either way--either in the direction of the belief and placebo effect, as you assert, but also in the direction of "no preconceived notion" on the part of the animal--it is one of the reasons why I believe that acupuncture treatment, for example, seems to be so much more effective for animals than for humans. In the many humans I have referred for acupuncture treatment, only one has had a positive effect (for pain, that is). I think a skeptical attitude iinterferes. However, I have seen many more dogs respond beautifully to acupuncture treatment. I would also assert that the "placebo" effect is a very real treatment result, for humans as well as dogs--if all homeopathy does, as you say, is make the owner feel better, is not a calm owner better for the dog than a tense and anxious one? Perhaps not in the case of severe intractable pain, such as cancer pain, I would agree, however.

Okay, I am going to take my psychologist hat off now!!

Edited June 18, 2008 by taylorsmom

[Guest taylorsmom]

With homeopathy, water and food can interfere with the remedy. Crushing the pills and giving it that way is the easiest. I've tried the water bit and found crushing is easier for me to administer. Good luck...Prayers for Alan!

According to my homeopathic vet, this is only partially true. Many things can interfere with remedies, and so we need to look for the mildest interference. There is a difference in terms of result in "dry" (i.e. crushed) versus wet dosing. Again, you need to think non-intuitively, not in terms of medication but in terms of energy--food interferes because of the production of saliva, which is energy-destroying. Water, less so. Many higher potency remedies are stored in a tincture of water and alcohol, again because there are no enzymes it tends to be more energy-preserving. By the way, also according to my classical homeopath, drugs of any sort can also interfere with remedies. Hypothetically, a strict homeopathic approach involves the use of remedies only. My experience has been very mixed with regards to homeopathy. I have found several remedies to be extremely effective--arnica, for example, will reduce bruising signicantly, an observable reaction and not one that has to be guessed at. Others that my homeopath recommended, especially for behavioral and emotional issues in my dogs, have been much less effective.

Good luck with sweet Alan--if you find that the traumeel or zeel helps, definitely continue using it!!

[CaliforniaGreys]

The first question has to be, how do you know it's working? In the tests that I've seen, people believed their animals were helped even when they had been given a dummy treatment and a veterinary assessment found no improvement with either dummy or homeopathic treatment. This is really in the realm of psychology rather than veterinary medicine. Homeopathy really might help people with a strong belief in the treatment but just can't work for animals with no concept of such beliefs. As you say, if the pet is also receiving an effective drug, the homeopathic treatment does no harm (I would also maintain it does no actual good either). The problem comes with people replacing the drug with a 'remedy' that will not relieve the pain. Not challenging the use of these remedies leads people to assume that they are reasonable treatment alternatives. They are not.

If I'm hearing you correctly, you feel that a remedy works because we believe in it. When I used acupuncture for one of my boys, and the Traumeel, I did not believe in either but had the attitude what if...and because of my closed mind, I didn't help my boy. I was driving to the vet for acupuncture asking myself, why am I doing this? How did I know it helped? Prior to acupuncture and the Traumeel, Tanner could not get up on his own. After treatment he could. He was also on Tramadol. He couldn't take any of the traditional meds because he had Von Willebrands.He also could not pick up a treat if it was on the floor and he would cry trying. After acupuncture and the massages with Traumeel, he was able to do that. So was it my belief that made this work? Not...because I didn't believe it would help until after I actually saw it help. And as much as I respect everyone's feelings, I would never want my own closed mind to be the cause of not helping one of my pups

Edited June 18, 2008 by cbudshome