More Kidney Questions

[rascalsmom]

I've searched this forum for threads concerning kidney issues, and I am getting a bit confused. I have read that an elevated creatinine level does not necessarily indicate kidney disease, but the vet has suggested Buddy start on k/d food. I have also read that k/d food is not at all that good, and many think NO dog should be on it.

 

Anyway, here are the specifics of his situation.

 

--was going for a dental, so he fasted from 7 pm till the next day, when I took him in at 8:30 am. Does fasting affect the blood values?

--senior blood profile was done

--creatinine was elevated to 2.6

--BUN was up 1 point

--urinalysis was done, "lots of protein" in the urine

--the vet said that he was "concentrating his urine" just fine

--she then checked his blood pressure, it, too was up

--she wouldn't do the dental, felt it was too risky with his bp up

--we brought home k/d kibble and canned, and I've been giving him that for the past six days

 

One thing I asked was if the teeth could be causing the numbers to be "off", she said yes. His teeth aren't "awful", in fact he had a dental last July, but they are looking like they need another dental, his breath is bad, and his little front teeth are horrendous.

 

I have just asked them to fax his bloodwork results to me (actually to dh at work), so I will have all the numbers shortly.

 

It has been suggested that a good senior food, low in phosphorous, would be preferable to k/d. I am OK with doing that, believe me; I already have a cat on prescription food (kidney, coincidentally!) and would appreciate not having the added expense of a dog on prescription food, too.

 

The vet also suggested that maybe Rascal should be on k/d, since her creatinine was up (2.3) and she had protein in the urine, too. Two of them, plus the cat, on prescription food would really be too much on our budget, quite frankly. And Rascal is already picky enough, I cannot imagine that she would eat prescription food willingly or for any length of time.

 

I found Dr. Feeman's article, and I think I'm going to print that out and have her read it. I trust her, but I am pretty sure she doesn't see all that many greyhounds. She is aware of their bloodwork peculiarities, and she was comparing Buddy's numbers to PREVIOUS bloodwork he's had done, and the numbers are up FOR HIM, not just according to the parameters.

 

I don't want her to think I'm questioning her expertise, but I also want to do what is right for my dogs, and what we can realistically AFFORD to do.

 

 

[Guest ss556]

Alan has PLN = protein losing nephropathy. He has hypertension as well. His BUN and creatinine weren't really bad two years ago when he was first diagnosed. His number for protein in the urine is high. Your grey needs to have a Urine Protein Creatinine Ratio test done, if not already. Dr. Feeman has a lot of information.

 

I cook for Alan and have read a lot about phosphorus, kidney diets, etc. Yahoo has a group, K9Kidney that you can join - they have lots of info. Alan doesn't like the k/d food.

 

Good luck with everything.

[Guest SusanP]

Our vet also suspected Wizard's teeth (he does have some problem areas) when they found elevated kidney values, but she also found a heart murmur. Testing revealed heart disease, and the vet who did the testing recommended an ACE inhibitor to reduce strain on kidneys from poor blood flow. Wizard began the meds and after 2 weeks, his kidney levels retested normal. He is also a bit more energetic. He is also scheduled for a dental in a couple of weeks. Not sure any of this is relevant to your pup, but thought I'd put it out there.

[Guest krisandzoo]

I have a girl on KD. She doesn't care much for it. SHe only eats it if I soak it in water, heat it in the microwave and then crumble treats on top. Before I discovered this she would refuse to eat and actually lunged at my plate numerous times. She'd never tried that in 12 years.

I'm so glad to hear about other options and personally am going to look into them for my babies happiness and health. She does get veggies and some fruit now.

I'm sorry to hear your boy is having troubles. I hope a plan that will work for you is devised soon!

[Guest dwolfe711]

When we brought Apollo (now almost 12yo) back from Mass last November (he was returned to our group due to family issues) his mouth was horrible. He had an immediate dental and lost 19 teeth - added to the 15 teeth he had lost in previous dentals, he now has 5!! Bloodwork was done before the dental and he had a borderline high creatinine number but not enough to halt the dental. We've had him on Evo chicken kibble and assorted canned for the six months he's been with us. I just had a complete blood workup done on him to see if there was any improvement in his levels - his creatinine is now within the normal gh range and other levels that were a bit off are now good - so I definitely believe that his nasty mouth was affecting his readings. Our vet was very happy with his test results - from what I've researched, a diseased mouth can have a big affect on the rest of the body! Hope you can get some answers on Buddy's readings and come up with a strategy for his diet and care that works.

 

Donna

[Burpdog]

I have had quite a few with protein up and no illness. I bet if he gets his teeth done he'll be better. Call or email Ohio State.

[rascalsmom]

I have had quite a few with protein up and no illness. I bet if he gets his teeth done he'll be better. Call or email Ohio State.

Do you have their email address, Diane? I think I am going to get in touch with them.

[rascalsmom]

OK, I have been in touch with OSU. I faxed them the bloodwork results, and what I had on the urinalysis (just that it was ++++ and from a free catch sample). They asked me about specific gravity, sedimentation, etc which I didn't have. I haven't heard back since I faxed the latest stuff.

 

Anyway, the more reading I do, the more I doubt that Buddy should be on k/d anything but SHORT term. I am really thinking of going to Canidae Platinum. It isn't as high in protein as a lot of foods, and the phosphorus is a bit lower than some food. I read this, and it's frightening:

dog food analysis of k/d Check out what it says about bloat!!

 

I am also thinking of asking them if maybe they could come out to my van to check his blood pressure on Tuesday. Surely that would be less stressful than going into the clinic. Don't know if they'll do it, but just a thought. Anything to get a truer reading!

 

 

[Batmom]

I read this, and it's frightening:

dog food analysis of k/d Check out what it says about bloat!!

 

Those people are idiots plain and simple.

 

If a dog genuinely does have kidney disease, you're not going to be feeding a lot of meat because meat contains, guess what?, lots of phosphorus. As well as lots of protein. For kidney disease, you need low phos and, as the disease becomes more advanced, low protein as well. So you are going to see things like the dreaded grains, fats, some egg, and other oddments in kidney diets. Isn't going to look wholesome compared to a regular diet. Can you do better, cooking it yourself? Perhaps ... but your homecooked isn't going to look real wholesome compared to a regular diet either.

 

Our first family dog when I was a child developed kidney disease at an early age and lived to a ripe old one eating KD.

 

None of this is to say that your dog has kidney disease at all, or kidney disease that's advanced enough to be considering any diet modifications.

[CaliforniaGreys]

I'm not sure who wrote the review you posted on KD. I've had Greys on it for years with excellent results. I feed both the dry and the canned.

[Trudy]

The high protein in the urine... where did that reading come from?

If it wasn't a protein/creatinine ratio, then you need to bring in a urine sample to have that checked.

 

 

If you don't want to feed KD, then find a food with low phos and lower protein (under 20%) and feed that.

[rascalsmom]

The high protein in the urine... where did that reading come from?If it wasn't a protein/creatinine ratio, then you need to bring in a urine sample to have that checked.

 

 

If you don't want to feed KD, then find a food with low phos and lower protein (under 20%) and feed that.

 

It was from a urinalysis that the vet ran, after his creatinine levels on the bloodwork were up.

 

[Trudy]

If your results were just +++ then I don't think they did a protein/creatinine ratio - it gives you an actual number - and that ratio number is more important to know than just the quick protein reading they can do.

That ratio should be close to 1. You can have high protein and high creatinine, but your ratio could still be ok and that's a good thing (well, better thing).

 

 

[feemandvm]

As others have told you... you need a urine protein creatinine ratio done!!! If the level is <1 then the protein noted in the urine sample was a false positive. If the level is >1 then you have to be concerned for glomerulonephritis.

 

 

[rascalsmom]

As others have told you... you need a urine protein creatinine ratio done!!! If the level is <1 then the protein noted in the urine sample was a false positive. If the level is >1 then you have to be concerned for glomerulonephritis.

Thanks, Dr. Bill....I have to take Buddy in on Tuesday for a blood pressure recheck and possible dental, and I will request that they do the UPCR!