Rear End Twisting At The Hips

[Guest Bebe]

Hi everyone,

 

I have something to run across people who may have experienced this before. Bebe just turned 12 yo and about 2 months ago I noticed she favored a right hind leg. As this got worse, she started twisting her tail to the right every time she would get up. Then her whole rear end would twist at the hips to the right when she would get up. Once, I saw her right hind paw knuckle under. She has been maintenance free for the 10 years I have had her.

 

X-rays showed that her 5th and 6th intervertebrate area has larger bone structuring in the disc area than normal vertebrate structuring. I was told this could be causing spinal pressure which may be causing the rear end to twist. Since she just turned 12 yo, one neurologist my vet knows won't look into it. I was told I could go to University of Florida for further examination, since they handle these types of things. They have specialized areas of all kinds for small animals, including neurology and MRI.

 

Has anyone experienced twisting at the hips before? I don't know if the intervertebrate problem is causing this. She is 12 yo and is also getting very weak in the hind legs. Maybe related to the vertebrate and maybe old age. I have read about LSS and don't have a clue about it. She is on methacarbomol and prednisone which seem to help but I don't know how long she can stay on these. She has also been excessively panting for the last 3 months in a house that is always 72 degrees. Her breathing is becoming labored at times. Her temperature seems to be stable around 101.5 degrees.

 

Any input would be helpful, as I am wondering what to do with my 12 yo. I would be willing to spend the money if I thought it would be helpful at her age. I know she is near that time and that she is not a super-dog possibly out-living any other, but this seems to be her only problem.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Scott and Bebe

[Xan]

No advice, but sending healthy thoughts, and hugs. (Also bumping your thread in hopes someone with more knowledge may see it!)

Good luck to you both!!

[Guest argolola]

I will pray for your sweet girl.

 

We took Lola to U of F for her eye surgery and they are fantastic.

[Cynthia]

The twisting is probably an accomodation to the pain in her spine when she moves. The knuckling under is neurological. You may want to get a booty to protect that foot or it will be scraped on top and she'll have more problems and more pain. The meds she's on should keep her comfy, and you may want to look into ramps for any stairs (or carry her) as any up and down movements could make it worse. At 12, consider staying on medications for comfort (vs surgery) and take things a day at a time, but do find a doctor who can help you to find supportive therapys, like laser, TENS, non-aggressive PT. Acupuncture isn't an option unless you know for sure that she doesn't have any tumors on her spine. I also wouldn't advise chiro unless your neuro or primary vet supports that. You can get information on LS at Dr. Stack's site: Greythealth.org.

[DaisyDoodle]

My CoCo had degenerative myelopathy--it's thought to be doggie MS. MS/DM is characterized by the neuro issues, coupled with intolerance to heat, and weird warty-looking growths. I understand that DM is much less prevalent than LS, but if it is DM, the best expert in canine DM is on the vet school faculty at UF--Dr. Roger Clemmons. A definitive diagnosis is expensive, but you might want to find out if it is likely DM that your pup has, then ask to get a script from your vet for Dr. Clemmons specially-compounded supplement mixture. I don't know how much it costs, but it might be worth a try, before having all the scans/tests done.

 

I'd go to UF if I was nearby. I did a phone consult with some folks there when CoCo was first diagnosed with lymphoma (she had it and DM at the same time). In addition to Dr. Clemmons, I think they have faculty there that specialize in race animals--GHs and horses--who might also be able to help you.

 

Good Luck,

DD

[Guest suzq]

You might want to look at this link. I don't know if the symptoms are the same... http://greythealth.com/lumbosacral.htm

I'll be sending good thoughts and prayers to you and Bebe.

[Guest sheila]

I am no expert on anything. My vet sees a few of the same issues with my 13.5 yr old boy and believes it is a heart related issue. He sees the issue that not enough blood is being pumped to the dogs hind quarters to allow the dog full range of movement. My hound is on Enalapril and Lasix for his heart.

There is no reason a senior hound can't be made more comfortable in their older days so I appreciate you looking for those answers.

[Guest Bebe]

I'm only about 4 hours away from UF, so I am going to set up an appointment there. I imagined UF as only being an experimental outlet, which I didn't want to go down. But it seems that others have used it as a resource and they have a great amount of experience. Therapy was another option I have thought about but have no clue where to look. I guess I'll go that route if nothing comes out of the UF visit. The meds are helping her now but the problem still exists. I now have a better outlook than I did before and there's always hope.

 

Thanks a bunch for the help and the good wishes.

[Guest HersheysMom]

I haven't read all of the replies but have you asked any of the vets if an animal chiropractor may help? My boy has an extremely uneven pelvis which causes the hips to twist - he is 12 and tolerates the treatments well. Not the same cause of the problem but from what you posted of your girls x-rays seems like adjustments could help?

[Burpdog]

I'd try an alternative vet. Here is one certified in both chiropractic and acupuncture:

 

NANCY KELLER , DVM

HEALING HEART, INC.

208 N.E. 3RD STREET

BOYNTON BEACH , FL 33435

Phone: 561-547-8277

Fax: 561-740-0819

Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference)

AC AC(IVAS) AK CH CR CR(AVCA) CM H HC HMTX NAET NU WH CERTIFIED BODY TALK PRACTITIONER

Practice Preferences:

SMALL ANIMAL

 

 

 

It would be helpfull to take the xrays with you.

 

Sending prayers!

 

[GreyTzu]

I'd try an alternative vet. Here is one certified in both chiropractic and acupuncture:

 

NANCY KELLER , DVM

HEALING HEART, INC.

208 N.E. 3RD STREET

BOYNTON BEACH , FL 33435

Phone: 561-547-8277

Fax: 561-740-0819

Modalities Practiced: (Modality Quick Reference)

AC AC(IVAS) AK CH CR CR(AVCA) CM H HC HMTX NAET NU WH CERTIFIED BODY TALK PRACTITIONER

Practice Preferences:

SMALL ANIMAL

 

 

 

It would be helpfull to take the xrays with you.

 

Sending prayers!

 

Dr. Keller rocks!! I was there in Tuesday. I would definately look for an Acupuncture/Chiro. Vet. You can go here and search to find one near you.

 

[Guest Bebe]

We went to UF this week and saw a neurologist, Dr. Shubert. Even though her L3 and L4 verts are abnormally shaped, it appears it might be LS. He rec'd that she get an MRI and I am setting that up for next week.

 

Since going under is risky, I have second thoughts about it. But, I know that it is needed to diagnose the problem. She also is getting worse with urinary incontinence, I'm assuming from her nerves becoming numb in the hind quarters.

 

If it is LS, I have read that surgery for a geriatric is too risky. I have read a few threads on here about LS and what is used to treat it, like depo-medrol shots. I guess I should stay the course until a definitive diagnosis is given. Then I will have to weigh the options beyond that point. I'll try acu/chiro when conventional methods are nearly exhausted.

 

Any advice from anyone who has gone down this path would be greatly appreciated.

[DaisyDoodle]

A diagnosis is only a necessity if it will make a difference in your treatment decision. If X and Y are treated differently, and you intend to pursue treatment, then it's important to get a diagnosis to differentiate. If the treatment of the likely diagnosis (and there's no X or Y, just X) is not harmful (and not expensive), it is sometimes better to try a treatment first, rather than doing an expensive and/or invasive test (or one that requires risks like anesthesia). Also, if you don't intend to treat if it is disease X, then it may not be worth the danger/expense of doing the test to confirm that it is X that the dog has.

 

Before having any more tests done, I would talk all the alternatives through with the vet(s) you trust. You might be able to find an effective treatment without more tests, or determine that you don't want to pursue the treatments that are available. So having a definitive diagnosis only amounts to an academic exercise, which you may or may not want or need to put your dog through if the dog couldn't tolerate the treatment anyway.

[GreyTzu]

A diagnosis is only a necessity if it will make a difference in your treatment decision. If X and Y are treated differently, and you intend to pursue treatment, then it's important to get a diagnosis to differentiate. If the treatment of the likely diagnosis (and there's no X or Y, just X) is not harmful (and not expensive), it is sometimes better to try a treatment first, rather than doing an expensive and/or invasive test (or one that requires risks like anesthesia). Also, if you don't intend to treat if it is disease X, then it may not be worth the danger/expense of doing the test to confirm that it is X that the dog has.

 

Before having any more tests done, I would talk all the alternatives through with the vet(s) you trust. You might be able to find an effective treatment without more tests, or determine that you don't want to pursue the treatments that are available. So having a definitive diagnosis only amounts to an academic exercise, which you may or may not want or need to put your dog through if the dog couldn't tolerate the treatment anyway.

 

Yup. We took JD, a 'Tzu, to a holistic Vet when he injured his neck. The traditional Vet recommended an MRI and prepared us for a sad ending, saying surgery was expensive and it probably would not help JD. He had not walked in well over a week when Kevin carried him into Dr. Keller's office. She did acupuncture and a chiro. treatment on him and JD walked out of the office.

 

I would not wait until traditional Vet methods are no longer working before seeking alternative methods. I would, and we did, use both methods combined for treatment with several of our dogs. I feel that a good traditional Vet should be supportive of alternative care. A traditional Vet may not be "rah rah go get 'em", but they should at least respect your decision to seek alternative care and listen to you and the alternative Vet. And the same should work in reverse. My holistic Vet listens to what we do and will explain why she doesn't recommend certain things or what we should to expect from her treatments and remedies. She will also be the first to say it's time to seek a traditional Vet.

 

Good luck. It's my understanding that there is no cure for LS. You just keep them loved, comfortable and happy for as long as you can. :grouphug

[Guest Bebe]

Well, the MRI definitively showed that it is not LS, as that area has plenty of room in the cavity. My mind was dead set on LS as it appears to be common in Greys and she exhibited every single symptom. Bebe has a slight dip in her spinal structure which is causing pressure. I was totally amazed at the level of detail an MRI can provide.

 

I was actually thinking about getting her depo-medrol shots to see if she improved and now I am glad that I did not bypass the MRI. While very expensive, it proved to be worth every penny. She was on prednisone and we took her off of that at taper down since it only made her seem better. Now she's on antibiotics for possible spinal infection of the area that has shows little or no fluid. The only other option for traditional is to grind away her spine to relieve the pressure on the chord.

 

She's doing fine on methacarbomal and I am waiting for the effects of the pred to wear off. If she shows signs of paralesis again, I will probably look into alternative options before I go the surgery route.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input.

[Guest MZH]

We had a dog years ago with calicification on a couple of discs in his lower back. He couldn't get up without help. This doesn't sound like the same problem but the treatment may be the same. (I don't remember if his hips twisted;we just wanted him to be able to get up on his own.)

 

He had three acupuncture treatments for it once a week and became mobile again. It lasted 3 more years until he died of cancer, totally unrelated to the back. It was unbelievable how quickly it worked. He never needed more acupuncture either!

 

Marcia in SC