Another Lp Question

[Saffron]

I'm puzzling about what Laryngeal Paralysis really sounds like in the early stages, how it is diagnosed, and how urgently we need another vet visit? I just did a GT search and googled it (oh dear), but I thought someone with personal experience could expand a little on early symptoms.

 

Murphy has a really odd husky bark and quite frequently coughs or gags while eating. We have already ruled out Bortadella. No sign of breathlessness, he can chase a squirrel out of the yard with the best and keeps up on walks. Last vet visit (2 weeks ago) I mentioned the cough again. Of course, he does not cough or bark at the vet's office so she has never heard it. She did not mention the possibility of LP, but is always open to input from me.

 

A bit more info: Murphy is 9. He came here last November as a foster -- one of Michael McCann's Craigslist foster dogs -- and yes, we are proud to have failed fostering resoundingly with this sweetheart! He had very little vet care with his previous adopters per his vet records (they refilled his pheno scrip, but he had not seen a vet in 4 years) so we can't tell whether his bark has changed.

 

In the last few months the poor boy has been brought UTD on everything and checks out very well other than a heart murmur. According to his ultrasound, this is minor mitral valve leakage. He is on pheno for mild seizures, but has never seized here. He came with a horrible mouth and found it hard to eat. I initially thought that this caused the gagging and coughing, but the teeth have been taken care of. He lost 5 teeth at his dental, but I wouldn't think that loosing a few teeth would cause him to continue to gag while eating.

 

Murphy wants to say, "I doesn't need no more stinking vet visits thankyouverymuch!" I'm thinking that I'll switch him to a harness pronto, and check again with the vet ASAP.

 

Or am I totally over-anxious? Perhaps I have "Hypochondria by Proxy," if that is a clinical term.

 

Gillian

Catwalk, Pilgrim and Murphy

 

 

[MP_the4pack]

My Onyx had the tieback surgery last year when she was 11.

 

It started out with hoarseness in her bark. That was the first symptom. Then within 6 months I noticed a little heaving in her breathing after running. It was winter at this time.

 

We saw the vet. He suggested LP. But the only way to really diagnose it was to put the dog under and scope the throat. Since they have a higher risk of aspirate pneumonia, they weren't going to scope unless I planned on the surgery. Of course if it wasn't LP, they weren't doing the tieback.

 

They did tell me she was an excellent candidate. She did have LP, they tied back the left side (they perform the surgery thru the neck, not down the throat) and she's been great since. It's been a smidge over a year now, she's 12 and other than having lost her voice, I can't see any difference.

 

But for care, there are a few minor changes. If she has any surgery, she needs to be kept intubated as long as possible before waking up. Most of the vets that I use already know about that.

She also cannot have hard crunchy, crumbly foods that she could aspirate. Her kibble must be soaked. She doesn't get milkbones, but she does get people cookies that I run under the water and make soggy.

What pretty much swayed me to go with the surgery is that the surgeon stated that even without the surgery she is at higher risk for aspirate pneumonia.

 

But I think with your boy, you could probably wait until he shows a little bit of labor with breathing.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest lotsagreys4me]

I had a foster dog with LP and he had no coughing at all. He was very exercise intolerant which gave me my first clue. He had the tie back surgery and did very very well............

[ZoomDoggy]

The hoarse voice was Chancy's first symptom. She also couldn't roo. She would try, but only choked air would come out, and her tongue would start to go blue. Obviously I discouraged her rooing.

 

Chancy wasn't a cougher, but as the LP progressed, she lost her stamina and tolerance for any temperature above 70 degrees. I did go ahead with the tieback surgery for her, and I only wish I'd done it sooner. I lost her due to other health complications about a month later.

Edited April 16, 2008 by ZoomDoggy

[Guest CyndiW]

I complained to my vet for 2 years that Stevie was getting out of breath even to walk down the hallway. He panted a lot and got tired easily during this time. She x-rayed his heart/lungs, checked his pulse, and breaths per minute. All checked out fine but I knew there was something wrong. Then last November when he turned 11, he started making a rough sound when he panted and that is when I consulted with a surgeon. Even the surgeon thought he didn't have it but after scoping him found out he had it on both sides. They tied back the left side (going through the neck). He was ready to come home the next day and never seemed to have any pain or discomfort from the surgery.

 

He has no bark now (just a whisper). He barks at anything that moves outside so I really wasn't too upset about this but one day I was messing with one of his nails (he also has SLO) and he kept jerking his head up at me. Then, I realized he also can't yip when something hurts so I really have to watch closer for signs of any discomfort or pain. He also can't whine to let me know he needs to go out so he had a few accidents in the beginning but now he knows he needs to get in my face and do his whisper bark.

 

Food has not been a big deal. I soak his kibble right before I feed him to soak up all the powder/crumbs and he gets no hard, crunchy treats. I did do the meatballs that they suggest for the first 2 weeks.

 

He is a completely new dog now even at 11 years old. He plays and runs at every opportunity. He has not acted like this in years. I always blamed his quiet, depressed nature on his SLO (toenail disease) but apparently it was the LP coming on slowly.

[Saffron]

As always, thanks to GTers for great responses.

 

Having read thus far I'm feeling a lot less anxious, mostly due to the fact that you all are focusing on breathing issues. So far he is breathing fine. Mr Murphy also thanks you. He says that he has been a canine pincushion recently and, nice as the vet is, he wants me to quit taking him there for poking, prodding, dentals, ultrasounds and way too many shots!

 

Little does he know that we are scheduled for another corn hulling next month. I'll talk to the vet again then about possible LP, and I'm willing to bet that she will advise me to keep a very close eye on his breathing as it gets warmer here in MA before going much further. As I said, that really odd bark (he honestly sounds like me with laryngitis) may or may not be a new development. We have no way of telling because his previous adopters left no forwarding address along with minimal vet records. Phone in pheno scrip renewal for 4 years? Wow! IMO that vet was skirting the law. The previous adopters did love him though. He is a complete confident snuggle bug.

 

I am still concerned about the coughing and gagging and will try moistening his food at his next meal. I've avoided doing that so far because of his nasty teeth, but if it lessens the possibility of aspiration it is worth a try.

 

Murphy is a happy loving squirrel chasing hound who roos brilliantly and has taught the girls to roo as well! He also recently passed his TD test. What a sweet senior dog.

 

And a very special thank you to MP_the4Pack who seemed to read my mind and addressed all my concerns. Especially the how it is diagnosed part. I'll be talking to the vet!

 

Gillian (who needs to change her GT name. It should be 2whitegreys and Murphy the brindle grey!)

 

[Guest Naty]

Congratulations on adopting Murphy! I met him at the courthouse and he's a real sweetheart.

 

My bridge angel Troy was diagnosed with LP at 11. We noticed that he was panting a lot even for easy walks and it was December at that time. In his case, we didn't notice any hoarseness in his bark until a couple of months later. His labored breathing seemed to have progressed quickly and the energy level was visibly low. A walk to the end of the block in the middle of February kicked off a near breathing episode that we rushed him to the vet. His temperature was high normal and valium provided him relief then. We decided to have him scoped at Tufts in preparation for LP because we figured that if he had a near episode in the middle of winter, it was too much of a risk for him during the warmer months. I didn't notice any gagging when he ate. His kibbles were well moistened.

 

If you suspect LP, please switch over from collar to harness if you haven't done so. You need to keep his airways from being constricted.

[galgrey]

The symptoms you describe (coughing, gagging when eating and the husky bark) could be symptoms of LP. When my Keno started with those symptoms early on, I knew nothing about LP. I thought the coughing and hoaresness was due to allergies and my vet initially concurred because he'd never seen LP in a greyhound. Most vets will tell you they can't make a definitive diagnosis without a laryngeoscope. I hope that's not what is causing this in your case, but it does sometimes start that way.

[Saffron]

Congratulations on adopting Murphy! I met him at the courthouse and he's a real sweetheart.

 

Naty, I think you may have met Michael's other "Murphy" brindle foster grey, not us! Michael has many, many fosters. I was certainly at the courthouse, but with my white and black girl, Catwalk, not brindle Mr Murphy. Catwalk and I worked the back of the crowd because we got there late due to traffic.

 

My Mr Murphy is also a mellow sweetie. As a "Michael" foster he had another name. I don't want to outright specify it because no way in H double hockey sticks do I want his previous adopters to be able to track him down through the internet. Call me paranoid. Here is a clue to the previous adopters' name for him: R (cough) O (cough) double S. We changed his name to the first part of his racing name according to his tats. Heck, he already seemed to know the name Murphy but did not really respond to the other. Go figure!

 

Yes, I am temporarily using his car seat-belt harness instead of a collar to relieve stress on his throat, but it is not perfect. I'm currently researching permanent harnesses. Any recommendations from your experience?

 

Thanks!

 

Gillian

 

 

Edited April 17, 2008 by 2whitegreys

[Guest Naty]

Congratulations on adopting Murphy! I met him at the courthouse and he's a real sweetheart.

 

Naty, I think you may have met Michael's other "Murphy" brindle foster grey, not us! Michael has many, many fosters. I was certainly at the courthouse, but with my white and black girl, Catwalk, not brindle Mr Murphy. Catwalk and I worked the back of the crowd because we got there late due to traffic.

 

My Mr Murphy is also a mellow sweetie. As a "Michael" foster he had another name. I don't want to outright specify it because no way in H double hockey sticks do I want his previous adopters to be able to track him down through the internet. Call me paranoid. Here is a clue to the previous adopters' name for him: R (cough) O (cough) double S. We changed his name to the first part of his racing name according to his tats. Heck, he already seemed to know the name Murphy but did not really respond to the other. Go figure!

 

Yes, I am temporarily using his car seat-belt harness instead of a collar to relieve stress on his throat, but it is not perfect. I'm currently researching permanent harnesses. Any recommendations from your experience?

 

Thanks!

 

Gillian

 

Oops. Sorry for the mix-up. Maybe I'll meet you next time in court. I have one of the McCann fosters too. He has a pretty large extended family.

 

I got a harness from Majestic Collars. 2Hounds also has a nice harness. Good luck.

 

[dmswartzfager]

I have a video of my LP boy Frazzle from probably six months, maybe eight months before we did his tie-back surgery, so his raspy breathing is really quite mild yet, but by turning up the volume, you can hear the raspiness of his breathing. Nothing was wrong with his bark, though!

 

The noisy breathing is what I (IMHO) consider to be a classic sign - I've run across a few other LP dogs and knew they were LP before the owner confirmed it, just based on how they sounded. Frazzle did also have some regurgitation/gastroesophageal reflux issues, which were generally controlled with Zantac, I believe... can't remember. I think we tried famotidine also, but it all runs together at this point....

 

 

I used a Wiggles, Wags, and Whiskers no-pull harness for Frazzle because, well, he liked to pull. He knew where he wanted to be, and goshdarnit, that was where he was going!

 

 

[Guest Ladyluther]

Gillian,

 

I too have an LP grey. His name is Luther and he will be 15 in September. He had the tie back AND a splenectomy (on an emergency basis) in August of 2006. I'll be glad to give you more info if you want to pm me.

 

The surgery isn't for every dog. The vet you choose should be board certified and have lots of experience doing these. In addition, it is critical that Mr Murphy be evaluated re: his overall health and tolerance to the surgery. It is not an easy decision to make, as any surgery has it's own risks too. Some of the very best surgeons are right in the area at Angell and at Tufts.

 

Don't let Murphy's age be a big deciding factor - it's an "old dog" condition - but there are some breeds that are more prone to it at any age.

 

Yahoo has an excellent LP group, and I do suggest you join it just to browse the postings and get some info. from both sides of the experience.

 

Take care and smooches to all!

 

Martha and Luther in MA

[Guest CyndiW]

Frazzle is so adorable!! That video is such a wonderful resource for anyone who is suspecting LP. The breathing is classic and the sound on the camera really picked up on it. My Stevie plays like that now but not before tie-back.

[Saffron]

Thanks, everyone!

 

The video of Frazzle was excellent, thank you so much, and I'm very glad to say that Murphy sounds nothing like that! Yet. I am still concerned about the gagging on food, although moistening it seems to be helping. I have a permanent harness on order.

 

Rest assured, I will be keeping a close eye on him and have already emailed his vet about my concerns. I may have mentioned before that I love my vet! She truly goes above and beyond for my greys. She thinks I'm being a little over-anxious, but is taking it seriously.

 

Martha, I'll PM you. Don't worry. I think Murphy is 9 years young and want to keep him happy for years yet. I hope to see some of the MA/New England folk at upcoming grey events this summer too. Anyone else going to the GAS Reunion?

 

Again, thank you all!

 

Gillian