Guest Wish Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 Aysa has blood work and a urinalysis done about a month ago to rule out his marking as a medical problem. The urinalysis was inconclusive because of debris in his urine and the tech said his urine was very concentrated, but also said that could be because he'd held it all day (he didn't like me chasing him around with a container ). The blood work came back with some of his kidney values (she didn't give me specific terms then) slightly elevated, so we schedule a re-check in a month. Today was the re-check and his Creatinine came back 2.2 (normal range for Greyhounds is 0.8 - 1.6. Aysa's level was 1.7 when he came off the track in Dec.). His BUN was 30 from 13 when he came off the track (not sure what the normal # for that in GHs is). His Phosphorus was normal. So she wants to put him on a renal support supplement called Azodyl, and mentioned changing his diet to a k/d (or whatever) prescription. Has anyone has a similar experience or any more knowledge on this subject? My vet tends to be over-cautious, so I don't know if I should be worried or not! Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you! Oh, and Aysa is completely normal on the outside. His marking is sporadic and rare, he eats well, drinks well (maybe a lot? How much is one Grey supposed to drink in a day?), plays, etc. I think his peeing is more normal now than it was when we tested the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahicks51 Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 Dr. Feeman's treatise on the subject may be useful: http://www.animalmedicalcentreofmedina.com...y%20Failure.pdf Specifically: "Diagnosing kidney disease can be difficult because both BUN and creatinine levels can also be elevated with dehydration or urinary obstruction." Was the urine tested for density by refractometry? There should be a number (USG), and it may have been taken by dipstick test or refractrometry; the latter is the desired test as dipstick tests aren't terribly accurate. If it was high, he may have been very dehydrated. Quote Coco (Maze Cocodrillo) Minerva (Kid's Snipper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kipsmom Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 Blue went into renal failure at 7 yrs old. She was on a special diet for it until she passed at 9 with something totally not related. Keep us updated. I'm not to sure what all the numbers mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rememberingSadi Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 I don't know about dogs, but in people an elevated Creatine and BUN levels are sometimes indicative to diabetes or an early sign that the kidneys aren't functioning to the best of their ability. I don't think your vet is being overly cautious on this one...I would keep a close eye on kidney issues. Good luck and I hope everything works out okay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burpdog Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 I can send you the kidney papers. Email me at Burpdog@msn.com Do he need a dental? I would treat him with antibiotics first and see if the numbers come down. I have had many with no obvious infection clear up (one of the greyhound mysteries) Quote Diane & The Senior Gang Burpdog Biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wish Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 Dr. Feeman's treatise on the subject may be useful: http://www.animalmedicalcentreofmedina.com...y%20Failure.pdf Specifically: "Diagnosing kidney disease can be difficult because both BUN and creatinine levels can also be elevated with dehydration or urinary obstruction." Was the urine tested for density by refractometry? There should be a number (USG), and it may have been taken by dipstick test or refractrometry; the latter is the desired test as dipstick tests aren't terribly accurate. If it was high, he may have been very dehydrated. I'm not sure how the urine was tested, to be honest. Thank you for the link and information! I can send you the kidney papers. Email me at Burpdog@msn.com Do he need a dental? I would treat him with antibiotics first and see if the numbers come down. I have had many with no obvious infection clear up (one of the greyhound mysteries) I'll e-mail you. No he doesn't need a dental. He came off the track in December and had one then. His teeth are yellow but he has little to no tartar build-up on them. The vet didn't think it was an infection because his other numbers were normal. I picked up the azodyl this morning and we'll have another chem panel done in a month. Should I switch him to k/d food? The vet recommended Science Diet or Royal Canin--both of which have had recalls and are junk as far as I'm concerned, so I'm a little hesitant to switch him. Also, does anyone know what conditions could cause the BUN to be elevated that much? The creatinine wasn't elevated that much at all, but I'm wondering why the BUN skyrocketed like that? Thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahicks51 Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Also, does anyone know what conditions could cause the BUN to be elevated that much? The creatinine wasn't elevated that much at all, but I'm wondering why the BUN skyrocketed like that? From the Merck Veterinary Manual (emphasis mine): "Evaluation of serum chemistries, including BUN, creatinine, calcium, phosphorus, and serum electrolytes, is useful in many urinary tract disorders and can provide a crude indication of glomerular filtration rate (GFR). Although elevations in BUN and creatinine are supportive of renal dysfunction, these tests are influenced by nonrenal factors as well. For example, dehydration can cause increases in BUN and serum creatinine not associated with renal failure. BUN can also be influenced by diet and GI bleeding and is considered inferior to creatinine for evaluating GFR. Serum creatinine levels can be falsely lowered in patients with severe muscle wasting and falsely elevated in patients with severe muscle damage. Although BUN and serum creatinine increase as GFR declines, this relationship is not linear. Large changes in GFR early in renal disease cause only small increases in BUN and serum creatinine, while small changes in GFR in advanced renal disease may be associated with large changes in BUN and serum creatinine." Wish I could be more help, as I really don't know about kidney issues other than what I've read here and there. Quote Coco (Maze Cocodrillo) Minerva (Kid's Snipper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyTzu Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 We are looking at issues similar with our older shih tzu. The internist Vet put him on phosphorus binder and did not recommend diet changes. Here is a good link with kindey information. Quote Wendy and The Whole Wherd. American by birth, Southern by choice. "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!" ****OxyFresh Vendor ID is 180672239.**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wish Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 (edited) Thank you for all the information!! What I don't get is that the important numbers (BUN, Creatinine and Phosphorus) are all over the chart in Aysa's test results. His BUN is elevated significantly, his Creatinine is elevated slightly (maybe moderately?), and his Phosphorus is dead normal. I'm reading about fasting dogs before having them tested. Aysa ate an hour before we went to the vet and was tested probably 2 hours after eating. Also, dehydration is mentioned. We always wait a long time in the vet's office (our typical time spent there is about 3 hours altogether, I think) and it is dreadfully hot outside right now. So is it possible he's dehydrated by the time they're drawing the sample? I feel really confused by his numbers being all over the place. He also didn't eat breakfast with much enthusiasm yesterday morning or this morning (didn't finish it this morning), but eats dinner with relish both evenings. I'm concerned but I don't have any idea what this could be. Edited May 13, 2007 by Wish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Before I would change foods or start to worry I would repeat the urinalysis. Have the Specific gravitiy re-checked. The Dr just needs a drop a urine and it can be done within 2 mintues. The best sample to submit would be the first pee-pee of the morning. It should be concentrated (something like 1.050 and up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahicks51 Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Before I would change foods or start to worry I would repeat the urinalysis. Have the Specific gravitiy re-checked. The Dr just needs a drop a urine and it can be done within 2 mintues. The best sample to submit would be the first pee-pee of the morning. It should be concentrated (something like 1.050 and up). I think that's the best route, right there; check with the vet, but capturing "first rain" in the morning before feeding and bringing the sample in for analysis might save a lot of heartbreak. Check with your vet, but I think fasting for 12-16 hours is a big must for accurate urinalysis. And if you have a specific gravity test done, it should be by refractometry, rather than dip stick. Quote Coco (Maze Cocodrillo) Minerva (Kid's Snipper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ss556 Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 My grey has GN, a form of kidney disease and is checked often. Just be consistent with the time of day you take the urine, we always get the first morning pee, we make sure he fasted prior to urine and blood tests all the time and I have not changed his kibble to a k/d formula as of yet. He was treated with doxy in January and his "numbers" did decrease mysteriously. My grey has high blood pressure also, so he is not on the same med as your grey, but on three other meds and vitamins twice daily. See what happens after the next urine test and take it from there. You can get a lot of info here on GT as those above directed you to. Good luck and let us know what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytexplorer Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Our webmaster has posted an interesting article from Dr Feeman. Go to bhamgreys.com and look at page 2 and page 14 which references creatinine and BUN. Lots of other good information, too! Best, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burpdog Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Were it me, I'd not do anything and retest in 2-4 weeks. I bet he's got an infection going on, or just a stabilizing effect. He's not been off the track for 6 months yet. I would not mess with drugs. Quote Diane & The Senior Gang Burpdog Biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Energy11 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Goldie went into Acute Renal Failure about four years ago, due to an undiagnosed and untreated UTI (*Before I started working at the vet). Anyway, her Kidney number were "off the chart," even for a Greyhound! We did six weeks, yes six weeks of Clavamox, and put her on a renal diet, and it totally cleared up! I have kept her on the renal diet to this day (*she turned NINE on Sunday), and her numbers have remained very good :-)) Goldie WILL NOT eat KD, so I would suggest, either, Purina NF, or Royal Canin Renal MP, both much more appealing than the KD! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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