krissy

Well it's good that someone has looked into some of the resources. Personally my head is full of diagnoses, treatments, and preventions of bovine diseases. Honestly, I would love if they didn't include prevention because it would be a couple hundred less pages to read and know for the rest of my life. Contrary to what appears to be popular belief, we do learn a lot about prevention where etiology is actually known so that we can prevent. But that isn't the case for a lot of diseases, especially ones that are multi-factorial, or largely genetic. For example, we can't say much more than "Don't breed dogs with clinically or radiographically poor hips" because we don't have a test for genotype yet, all we can rely on is phenotype. And yes, we do realize that breeding based on phenotype is not perfect, but we don't know all the genetic factors yet, and we can't test for most of them yet. Which means unfortunately we can't prevent hip dysplasia yet. Doesn't mean the texts don't talk about it or we don't want to prevent it, we just can't. Medicine is an imperfect and constantly evolving science. Whoever discovers a way to prevent osteo (or any other cancer for that matter) is going to be very rich and very well known. Unfortunately, I don't think that day is coming in any of our life times. I will ask Dr. Couto about the quote in July when I see him and post what he says for anyone who is interested.

The textbook is not intended soley for students. It is pretty much THE textbook of small animal internal medicine used in the profession right now. That means students, interns, residents, veteran vets. While there is no in-text citation there is a list of about 10 references for the osteosarcoma section. I'm currently studying from 7 AM to 2 AM every day for the last 3 weeks for final exams so I don't really have the time to find all those resources and look them up and read them all, but I will post them all here if anyone is actually interested. I also said I'd be more than happy to ask Dr. Couto to elaborate on that statement when I saw him, but I guess no one is interested in that. I simply stated something that I've read from a very highly reputable text from a very well regarded vet. Yes, that's a short statement and there's probably more to it. I simply threw it out there for interest sake. What you choose to do with it is up to you.

Well, first, AKC is a registry and there are a number of dogs registered both AKC and NGA. So, you can't really label it that way. However, the majority of AKC registered greyhounds come from a very small gene pool. Please quote the source of this info about osteo. From what I have read/learned, AKC greys not only have an equal chance of osteo, but also have a MUCH higher chance of heart problems and some other really nasty inherited issues. There are some AKC lines with truly awful health issues. The AKC gene pool is teensy, if you discard all dogs with any NGA lines. That's why some of us have fought HARD to keep the AKC greyhound studbook open to NGA greyhounds. I did quote in in my next post. The quote was written by Dr. Couto himself in Mosby's Small Animal Internal Medicine, 4th Ed. Just so no one has to go looking for the post with the quote, here it is: Well, apparently Dr.Couto knows that. That was a quote right out of one of the Oncology chapters in Small Animal Internal Medicine. Well, I paraphrased but here is the exact quote: "There is a distinct genetic predisposition to OSA in dogs; for example, in former racing Greyhounds OSA is the most common cause of death (i.e.; 25%), whereas OSAs are extremely rare in show Greyhounds in the U.S." The chapter was written by Dr.Couto. I took special note because Greyhounds were mentioned. I can ask him to elaborate when I visit him in July and let you know what he says. However, I doubt he would publish a sentence like that without some sort of significant proof. EDIT: Spelling

Someone forgot to give mine that memo. He's such a little hussy. You got loving to give, he's there.

I think there's being "disinterested" and then there is fear. And I think if this dog is truly afraid of other dogs that makes it an issue that needs to be worked on. If she just has no interest in interacting with them then I can agree to just leave well enough alone. A fearful dog is liable to bolt suddenly and rip a leash out of its owner's hand. A fearful dog is less confident in its surroundings. A fearful dog could turn into a potential biter. Whenever Summit is afraid of something I take the opportunity to expand his horizons. I have a helium balloon that has been slowly dying. My BF took it off it's string so that it could "wander", but it's so out of helium that it wanders at just about dog eye level. Freaked Summit right out. He's afraid of a balloon. Whatever. When else is he going to have to interact with a balloon? Well, how about one day we run into a child, or we have a baby (ha, that'll never happen, but just for the sake of argument let's say that I was planning on children in the future), and the kid has a balloon. If Summit is afraid of a helium balloon he could easily freak out and potentially bite the kid. I doubt he would. He'd just try to run away. But what if? Anything is possible. If I take the opportunity now in a controlled environment to desensitize him to the balloon then I have one less variable out in the world to worry about and he will be that much happier and safer. If another dog can walk up to this greyhound and she just turns her head or wanders off then yeah, she just doesn't want to interact and that's not a big deal. But it sounds like she freaks out as soon as she sees another dog at a distance. To me that's not okay and I feel sorry for her, because when is she going to go out and NOT see another dog? That seems like a sad way to live life to me. JMHO.

Yay! Second class was awesome! Posted some videos and a run down on my blog.

When does she get nervous? Is it as soon as she even sees another dog or is there a distance that if they get within she becomes nervous? If it's the latter and she will take treats on walks I would start feeding her treats as soon as you spot another dog. Hopefully soon she will realize that other dogs = treats and she will be comfortable letting them get closer and closer. At first she will stop taking treats and get into her fearful state once they get within her threshold distance which will probably still be quite far. That's okay, but the idea is to make her realize that a dog showing up that far away is a good thing. Summit used to freeze up when this particular noise happened in our neighbourhood. Still no idea what it is. He no longer really cares about it. He would statue and totally ignore me and treats. When something loud or potentially scary happens I always say "What was that!?" in a really happy, excited voice, and then give treats. If he statues and won't take treats I tuck them into his cheek and once they're there he usually eats them. It's important to not coddle her when she's fearful because that makes her think it's okay to be afraid. For this reason I never use the phrase "It's okay". They're just words, they mean nothing to the dog, but it's completely counterintuitive for a human to say "It's okay!" in a happy, excited, confident way. You automatically say it in a soothing, comforting tone. Hence the reason I use "What was that?", you can also use another word or phrase that is suitable.

How long have you had Molly? I'm assuming she's a fairly recent addition to your family. It can take the dogs a little while off the track to really settle in and for their personality to come out. Some are social butterflies right off the track, some are really reserved and even fearful of people or other dogs. I think she probably just needs some time. If you want encourage her to socialize with other people you could try asking them to give her a treat if she's interested in treats on walks. If she freezes up when other people are around but will generally eat on walks I'd start giving her treats as soon as a person shows up (i.e. when they're far away). She should make the connection that the arrival of strangers means good things. A lot of greyhounds have no interest in non-greys to be honest. Some are great with them, others ignore them, and others can have some other behaviour (see my thread "Here's a theory" to read about what my boy and other greys can do). He goes nuts if he sees another sighthound... whippet, greyhound, afghan... doesn't matter. I think she just needs more time to settle in. I wouldn't worry about it too much yet. If you find it embarassing, just explain to the people you meet that she's fresh off the track and everything is new and unfamiliar. As she becomes more comfortable she should get more sociable. She may never be a social butterfly though. ETA: This all sort of assumes you haven't had her for that long. But I just looked and see you have 109 posts so maybe she's not as new as I assumed.

Well, to play some more devil's advocate... 12-18 weeks isn't the full development of a dog. They aren't socially mature until at least 6 months, some longer. In a real pack situation they would continue to be corrected by other dogs until that point (and even beyond if they're the type of individual who "doesn't get it"). Also, consider this... if a mother gives birth to a litter of puppies and they stay with her for 12 weeks, 6 months, or longer, but she herself is the product of lack of correction as a puppy and has no dog manners, how will she raise puppies with good dog manners that she herself is unaware of?

Well, apparently Dr.Couto knows that. That was a quote right out of one of the Oncology chapters in Small Animal Internal Medicine. Well, I paraphrased but here is the exact quote: "There is a distinct genetic predisposition to OSA in dogs; for example, in former racing Greyhounds OSA is the most common cause of death (i.e.; 25%), whereas OSAs are extremely rare in show Greyhounds in the U.S." The chapter was written by Dr.Couto. I took special note because Greyhounds were mentioned. I can ask him to elaborate when I visit him in July and let you know what he says. However, I doubt he would publish a sentence like that without some sort of significant proof. I think I remember hearing/reading that AKC greys are much more predisposed to GDV. I know bloat is a hot topic here every now and again and there are those of us that point out that bloat isn't very common in greyhounds compared to the bloat breeds (Danes and G.Sheps), but I seem to remember that AKC greys have a higher rate. I cannot remember where I read or heard that though... so take it for face value as it didn't come out of my textbooks.

I think there was a thread about calming signals not too long back, so hopefully some of those people will chime in with a repeat. Summit will stand there cool as can be while Cujo charges him... [cough] crazy Golden Retriever down the street from us [cough] with the whole "How's it going?" attitude. I just wish he could do that to ALL rude dogs.

Hi Chad, I don't mind if he corrects "innocent" rude behaviour such as puppies, or dogs that are too exuberant. I have allowed him to correct my friend's puppy (well, he is no longer a puppy really... 13 month old 90 lb Black G.Shep). And he never takes that too far... it's literally growl and air snap and he's done. A few minutes later if the puppy didn't get the message, growl, air snap. The problem is that he corrects large, male dogs that are persistently (and I almost think knowingly, but maybe that's anthropomorphizing a little too much) rude and it's not just a little correction like he does with a puppy. It also concerns me because these dogs that he chooses to correct in this way are dogs that I think would have no problem getting into a fight, and we all know who would lose that battle. He doesn't just growl and then air snap them. His posture gets stiff and tense, he growls but not the way he growls at a puppy, and he doesn't just air snap he full out lunges and gets up on his back legs. And he doesn't back off if I "correct" him (I don't leash jerk or tell him off, but I'll ask for a "watch me" or a "come" and try to walk off), whereas when correcting a puppy he doesn't get focused. He'll growl and snap, and if I ask for something he'll do it immediately after. He's not fixated on the puppy. Anyway, I don't know how much of that is his "issues" and how much of it is exactly as the theory suggests. I just kind of was analyzing his behaviour from the last 6 months, and it definitely seems like he has a problem with dogs that lack manners. Especially the boys.

Although interesting to note that AKC greys have significantly lower rates of osteo. Not exactly sure what they have increased rates of compared to NGA greys.

I was going to say that I was kind of confused because it sounded EXACTLY like what Summit does... except Summit is sometimes a little overzealous in his corrections. Although, to be fair, I sometimes think that he's NOT over correcting. For example. Young puppies that jump up at him and paw at his face and act obnoxious, he generally ignores. Slightly older puppies he walks away from. Older and he might give them one air snap. Adult dogs that should know better? Cujo emerges. I feel like he knows exactly what is acceptable from what age group. I would like him to learn that it's not acceptable to ME for him to over correct like this. However, it's also exasperating when people give me dirty looks like my dog is aggressive and attacking their dog. Though, those are better than the ones that just keep walking while their rude dog harrasses us. Would be interesting to know if greyhounds placed in homes as puppies at a similar age to other breeds (6-12 weeks) are prone to displaying the same sort of "rude" behaviour, or are more tolerant of rude behaviour.

Oh, I know it's probably not a new theory, but I sort of never really gave it too much thought until recently. I needed to get to know my dog better to really start seeing it. The loose dogs are really the issue. Seeing a dog he is known to have issues with while they are far away, or on lead is not a problem. He's great with the "watch me". It starts to get problematic when the dog is off leash with an oblivious owner. I can't really put myself between the dogs because the loose dog just keeps circling around. I usually try to ask Summit to walk on with me and if the other dog has SOME manners or some training they'll often run off to someone else or to their owner once we start moving. However, many of these rude dogs just keep following us. At that point Summit will stop following me and start to make a big deal out of the dog following us. What makes me REALLY annoyed is when people are oblivious to their dog's poor behaviour... but what makes me absolutely LIVID is when my dog starts reacting, their dog is still pestering us and they do NOTHING. Some of these dogs have poor training and owners call them and it does nothing. At least they're trying to pretending like they care. Some owners can see that I am physically trying to get between dogs, mine is snarling and snapping at theirs (who is clearly not getting the message) and the owner doesn't seem to care. Personally I'd be concerned about my dog getting bit and would call him off. Some people don't seem to care one bit. I don't understand it.

So in the last 6 months (happy 6 month gotcha day, Summit!) that we have had Summit I have been working on his "issues" with other dogs. Non-greyhounds, usually large and male, but not exclusively. And here is what I have noticed and the theory I have formulated. Summit only seems to react to dogs with bad manners. There's a Golden down the street from us and when she sees us walking by her house (on the opposite side of the street) she charges us, hackles up, snarling, devil/Cujo thing. She's going to get hit by a car one of these days. Owner runs after her because she doesn't listen. This evokes ZERO response from Summit who often looks the other way. She's all bark and no bite... gets about a metre from us and then turns tail. I guess she's territorial. The point is, in the face of this overt aggression, Summit is perfect. But you take a dog that everyone says "oh, but he's such a quiet dog"... you know the one. He's not teeth-gnashing aggressive, doesn't growl, everyone thinks he's a really nice dog but what they don't realize is that he's RUDE. He comes up behind your dog and follows you (because of course he's off leash) and sniffs at your dog, postures, doesn't wag his tail or want to play, doesn't want your dog to sniff HIM, etc etc. He has a history of starting a couple of dog fights... you know the one I'm talking about. Summit does NOT appreciate these dogs. Dealing with these dogs is a work in progress for us. He has a good "watch me" but these dogs are often off leash and we can't get away from them, the owner is oblivious, and I can't stay at a distance under Summit's threshold to get the "watch me". Anyway, the theory.... This theory depends on other Greyhounds having similar "aggression" issues as my dog... i.e. they're not overtly aggressive but they feel the need to put rude dogs in their place. Most dogs are removed from their mothers and siblings at 6-8 weeks of age and become only dogs. If they're lucky the family already has an older dog to continue it's discipline. If not, canine discipline basically ends. These dogs don't always learn proper dog behaviour and manners. Our greyhounds on the other hand are raised with their mother and siblings, and then continue to run with their siblings until they are about full grown, and after that they continue to have regular turn out with other dogs. They learn proper dog manners, and the "aggression" that we end up seeing in some of our dogs is merely a lower threshold for poor behaviour that they see exhibited by non-greyhounds. Thoughts?

Mix kibble with water, turn it into semi mush, stuff Kong, freeze Kong. That's all I've got. lol. Simple, quick, cheap... can you tell I'm a student?

Well, Summit can't jump into the car or onto the bed either. He didn't know how to jump until we started working on bar jumps. We encountered a fence on a walk once. There was an intentional hole in the fence for people to walk through. It was reinforced with bars and perfectly rectangular, so it wasn't like someone just took wire cutters to the fence, but the bottom bar was about half a foot or so off the ground (about the height of the jumps Summit does in class). I went through and Summit stood on the other side with this look of "Oh my god, what do I do, don't leave me!" and kept making a move toward it then backing up. He literally didn't know how to jump over this bar. He's not spooky though and he wanted to... he just didn't know how. With some encouragement he finally jumped his front feet over with no problem and then didn't know what to do with his back legs. He finally sort of bunny hopped over it, hit it with his feet, but he awkwardly got over it. Now he can get over that height in agility just fine... but it's not high enough for him to really jump... it's more of a hop. Well, in the backyard he can jump. I think I can work him up to full height in the backyard, but I have no idea how that's going to happen in class.

So the little bugger CAN jump. Just not at agility class apparently. I took him out in the backyard and set up a makeshift jump with buckets and a hockey stick. Well wouldn't you know it, he was actually jumping high and clear over this thing even though it was set low enough that he could just about step over (similar height to what he'll do in class). Anyway, so I used the bench that's out there with one of the buckets to make the jump a little higher. About the height he was refusing in class. Well, no problem. So now I'm considering two problems with the jumps in class. He's either refusing because he can't get enough momentum going to clear them and he knows that so he doesn't try. Or alternately he doesn't like the stands the bar is set on. In the backyard with the makeshift jump there are no uprights on either side like there are with a real jump, so I wonder if he feels restricted or whatever going between the uprights. Anyway, the boy can jump. Gotta find taller buckets to raise the height some more. And I kept him on lead with his harness this time to prevent the zoomies. Once he's got his mind on work I can let him off lead and he'll stay focused. Just gotta avoid those darn zoomies!

We had our first class today! It was lots of fun. I don't think Summit is an indoor agility kind of dog though. I hope he picks up the pace when I get him outside. I can't blame him though, he's so long and there's not a whole lot of space. There are 6 dogs total including Summit, and the room isn't very big. A couple of the dogs have multiple handlers, plus 3 trainers... plus equipment. Anyway, his jumps are set super low... like he barely has to jump it's more of a step. But when I try to raise the bar to the next height he balks and refuses. I think part of the problem is he needs more of a run up. Greyhounds aren't really the kind of dog that is good at jumping from a stand still. But there's no space to get him running. I'm going to work with him at home this week on low jumps (just going to use buckets and a mop for a bar) so that he's reliably going over those with me a distance away. That way I can hopefully bump the height up in class next week and give him a longer run up. But anyway, he generally just trots from obstacle to obstacle. The other dogs look like they're really motoring, he looks a little more laid back. But then, with his longer legs I think he's almost as fast. Hoping that in the summer when he's out on grass he'll be motivated to pick up the pace a little. And hopefully not end up doing zoomies.

I would highly recommend if you ever decide to get a head halter that you attach to the martingale as well. Head halters come off way too easily for me to ever feel safe about them on a greyhound with no backup. They're easy to push off the nose for most dogs, and even though greys have long noses I still wouldn't put it past them. Has happened to me walking way too many dogs before. You take your eyes off them for a second and stop walking (to pick up poo, to throw poo in the garbage, to talk to someone) and that loop will be off the nose. Namely because no one tightens these head halters as much as they were intended to be tightened ("poor pup, I want him to be able to pick up his tennis ball" or "oh, it seems mean to put it on that tight"... why they are using a head halter then is beyond me).

Yay Flower! In other news... SO FREAKING EXCITED FOR TOMORROW!!! Aside from the fact that I have an exam that is going to kick my ass, we have our first agility class! Whoot! Way too excited. In preparation I am going to spend some time tonight and tomorrow cutting up some left over pork tenderloin and some hot dogs. I took Summit out in the backyard this afternoon now that the snow is finally gone and things are semi dry. I wanted to work on his obedience. We really need to work on focus when we're outside. He's great in almost all indoor settings, but outside has so many noises and smells and things to look at! Didn't help that someone was putting up a new fence next door. Between the hammering and the sound of cars from the major street nearby it was near impossible to get anything done. To top it off, I had taken him for a jog with me immediately before hand. I purposely wanted him a little tired because every time I've taken him out in the yard he's decided to do zoomies. Now zoomies are cute and all, but it's work time, and the ground is still not firmed up yet and he just destroys it. After all the trouble we went through to convince our landlord to let us have a dog I don't need to get in trouble for Summit destroying the backyard (not that he has much grass to begin with). So then he was so tired he just kept trying to lie down. I got a couple of exercises out of him and then decided to call it quits. I don't expect him to be perfect with the new environment after all. Well, all of a sudden, Mr. I'm-too-tired-to-sit decides he's going to - you guessed it - DO ZOOMIES! GAAAAHHHH! It was cute. But seriously? You don't have the energy to front and finish, but you have the energy to tear around the backyard 10 times? Greyhounds.

Not sure what the laws are about liability if someone's loose dog or cat gets into your yard and is attacked by your hound. I'd like to think that wouldn't be your fault since you've got your dog contained and they don't. However, I'm not sure that's true. Consider that if someone breaks into your house with the intention to steal something or even hurt you, and they are attacked and injured by your dog... THEY can sue you! It's ridiculous. You just broke into MY house to steal my things or potentially do bodily harm to me. My dog does his job and protects the property and me and *I* get in trouble for it? Not that my dog would ever protect the house or me... he's a social butterfly... all theoretical. Actually, someone tried to break into a house and successfully sued the owner of the house because he was injured due to poor maintenance of the house. I can't remember exactly what the deal was... the windows were shoddy or something and he got injured climbing into the house.

Distracting isn't necessarily bad as the biggest problem for most people is getting their dog to listen to them with distractions. We are still working up to distractions now that the weather is getting warmer and there are more people and dogs outside. Of course, trying to teach a dog that knows NOTHING in a distracting environment can sometimes be an exercise in frustration and futility!. I wouldn't go to a trainer who thinks greyhounds are dumb. Not unless I knew my dog and I had already taught him to learn. I'd take Summit to a trainer who thought greyhounds are dumb because I KNOW he'll show him/her up. He loves to learn and has previously been the best dog in class. When he knows it's time to work he is all business. But teaching him to learn (i.e. teaching him his first command) took a lot longer than any subsequent command. Once you get the idea through to them the lightbulb goes on. At least for the ones that take to learning. We actually had a "supply teacher" for one of our obedience classes, and she made a couple off-hand, innocent sounding comments that basically implied greyhounds were dumb dogs. Summit had been to the vet the previous day for a long series of x-rays, and then the day of class he was donating blood at 4 PM (class was at 7) so he was a little off... but his a little off was still better than any other dog in class. Anyway, she was borrowing dogs to demonstrate each exercise. She asked to borrow Summit for one. It was a front (sit directly in front of handler) and then around finish (walk around your right side, behind you and sit on your left side ready to heel). Summit pretty much already knew how to do this. We'd learned it for the first time the previous week. He wasn't perfect but he got the idea. Anyway, she had him standing in front of her and asked for a sit... and he just stared at her. So she asks him again, and he keeps staring at her. So she hands him back with a little commend about how "he's not very good at sit is he?" so I took the leash back from her and said "Summit, sit", and his bum dropped like a rock. It was awesome. Maybe I shouldn't be proud that my dog only responds to commands from me, but if I were him, I wouldn't listen to her either.

We just quit crating Summit. We now gate him into the bedroom. No more problems. If you don't have to crate him, the solution might be to just not.