jetcitywoman

Capri was doing that and we took her for a long round of vet evaluations. We ended up putting her on daily Cosaquin and that solved the problem for her. We couldn't find anything wrong with her, so figured it was just osteoarthritis from her long racing career. Seems to have been the right diagnosis because she's better now.

Ah, yes that linky seems to be what she's asking about. She said the toes rub together making a sore spot. Thanks, I'll send her that link.

A friend on Facebook is asking what to do about toe rubs on her dogs. I'm trying to get her to explain what that is because I've never heard of it. Meanwhile, does anybody here know what they are? She's asking what to do about them.

LOL, never mind, I wrote a really ditzy reply!

I can attest that some of the "aloof" greys will grow more affectionate as the years go by. Capri has been with us for about five years now and she still does new heart-melting stuff. Her newest thing is giving sweet little nose/cheek licks to me and DH when she's in the mood and we're at her eye level. The other day we were cuddling on the couch (which really means sitting next to each other, butts touching), and I got up to get ready for walkies. I usually sit on the window seat to put my shoes on, and very often she will jump up there and stand behind me. This time she sphynxed behind me so I started petting her. Then she laid her head on my lap. Walkies were a bit delayed... Oh, and I have noticed a strong difference in the eye contact/getting into your dog's face issue. As we say here all the time, never, EVER do that to a dog you don't know. But when you have a loving, trusting relationship with a dog they seem to welcome it. Mine frequently get up into MY face. Then, of course, I have to smooch them between the eyes. Ajax comes up for a quick look/smooch and then turns his face away, seems too intense. But Capri will get up and almost touch noses with me, both of us looking cross-eyed into each other's eyes and she will stare at me like that for a fairly long time. I can't decide if she's just smelling my breath or doing the greyhound mind-meld thing. .... cookies..... must.... get.... coooookieeesss.....

Oh, I'm sorry too, that I didn't see this post until just now! My two dogs take puzzles differently: Capri is tenacious, so will chase her dizzy ball all over the house until it stops rattling (indicating there are still treats inside). Ajax will nudge his once or twice and if food doesn't immediately come out, he gives up. He far prefers following his sister around hoovering up anything she misses. There are two directions you can go with dog puzzles: supervised and unsupervised. Unsupervised toys are usually the kind that need to be rolled around or chomped on to get food out of. The challenge ranges from Kongs, which are intended for dogs who love to chew, to dizzy ball styles that need to be rolled around. I count the roll around kind as unsupervised although it's good if you're somewhere nearby because they can be rolled under furniture or whatever which may frustrate your dog. Supervised puzzle toys are fantastic but they are totally intended as cooperative games between you and your dog. Nina Ottoson has several really fantastically designed toys that each have a range of difficulty. Typically you break the game down into small steps starting with the easiest. As your dog learns the easy parts, you add difficulty. Ottoson puzzles have challenges that range from simply sliding open compartments to actually pulling pegs to unlock drawers.

Thank you for getting my point even though what I wrote was really, really muddled! LOL, I don't know why other than I was in a hurry and didn't get to edit myself for clarity. Anyway, yes. I wouldn't even call it "over the edge" because that sounds like insanity. But you can call me pedantic for that, I don't mind. I've had a few situations with Ajax where some little unleashed thing comes running under my dog's legs when we're on a leash walk. Because the little ones are inevitabely hyper and yappy and sometimes even jump up on my dog's heads, I have picked them up to try to remove the annoying thing from my dogs. But having the pup in my arms triggers Ajax to try to bite it even more than when it was on the ground being annoying. I honestly don't know the solution; I guess they're marginally safer on the ground even though if he decided to eat one in one bite, he'd do it much faster than I could prevent. He hasn't caused any damage in those situations where I picked them up, but I did see that he was biting at their rear legs/tails, i.e. the parts he could easily reach.

Everybody else has great advice so I just want to address your feelings and trust in JJ now. In reading your first post, I thought he sounded exactly like my Ajax and it was also a situation that I had with Ajax a couple times although the other dogs didn't need stitches. There is something triggerish to a dog's prey drive when you pick up another animal. I think it's natural to think that if you hold the smaller animal, you can protect it more than if it was on the ground, but that's not the case. Especially when your houndies are as tall as you are when they rear up on two legs! The lesson being, while you should work on socializing JJ to other animals and learn to trust him again, just remember to never pick up another small animal.

Sorry to reply to myself, but I was thinking on this and want to elaborate some more. To clarify, I mean you have to have both two-way trust and two-way communication. The dog trusts that you won't purposely hurt him, you trust that he will be more tolerant if you make the occasional accidental mistake, but also you learn to read his body language and he learns to read yours. Dogs are already very good at reading our body language, it's people who are typically really bad at this, which is where the Patricia McConnel (and other) books come into play. The exercise of learning two-way communication builds trust, so they all really mesh together. With respect, I do think you're oversimplifying. I also think you're treating the dog as an untrustworthy machine. By machine, I mean like it's programmed to do things on triggers, and ignoring the fact that they have moods and emotions and a certain level of rational thought. They can learn to communicate and trust, (and learn!) and you're treating the dog like he can't.

I think it's what others have been saying: it's not a matter of how long it takes to trust, it's more a matter of learning to read your dog well. Because the best, most tolerant dog in the world can be a sweet cuddler for years and then gets injured or gets old and achey and may snap at you when you hug him because you've accidentally hurt him. Dogs also have moods like we do, and may simply not be in the mood to be petted. Ideally they will move away or growl before biting, and this is why the GT experts always tell you NOT to scold your dog for growling. You absolutely WANT that early warning. In short, I think it's an equal combination of trust AND communication.

I agree, and I think some dogs go through the entire range of warning signals extremely quickly, which is why many humans miss them. I'm thinking as an example the video of the rescued bull dog (or pittie mix, whatever it was) that bit the tv newscaster in the face a couple years ago. Someone posted on Youtube a nice editted breakdown of that video that showed his warning signals, and it all happened in the span of a couple seconds. Here's the video for the OP: I also have a couch story, but only about miscommunication and warnings without escalating into a bite (luckily). As I've mentioned here before, Capri had sleep startle when we first got her so we didn't let her on the couch for a long time and gave her privacy in her bed. After we started letting her on the couch, it took a few more months to teach her that it was different from her bed: the couch is a privilege for her, it belongs to the humans, not her. So if she's bad, off the couch she comes. We don't do it in anger, we just do it factually like "oh this happened, so now that has to happen too". Anyway, in the middle of that process, once I was sitting on the edge of the couch talking to DH who was in the kitchen. Capri was either feeling snuggly or wanted to push me off the couch (who knows - ha!) so she got up and tucked herself in behind me. It was fine until I got up when she growled and air-snapped at me. I immediately took her off the couch. We both immediately understood what happened: When I got up, I unthinkingly leaned back a little bit and then rose, which made her think I was about to squash her. Nice chain reaction there, huh? I accidentally scared her, she defended herself, I revoked the couch privilege (and she apologized, which is another story), and we learned a little more about each other. My point is that it can be the tiniest movements that you aren't even aware of that can scare a dog who doesn't quite trust you.

As a naive first-time greyhound adopter when we got Capri, I never worried that she'd been abused. It was very evident that this never-met-a-stranger, outgoing and happy hound had never had a hand raised against her. I did wonder if she'd been "forced" to race as some people say. Then I took her to Greyhounds in Gettysburg and went to the speed run where they had it all fenced and were using squawkers. She was almost uncontrollable - pulling TOWARD the activity and putting up a big fuss because I wouldn't unleash her. When it was her turn, if she was a human child, she would have been yelling "that was great, let's do it again!" Similar but different with Ajax. He has a mediocre track record and spent more time in trucks being hauled around than running himself around the oval. He prefers a clownish twisty gallop over a double-suspension ground eating gallop. So I thought in the speed run he would join the ranks of the wander-and-pee crowd. Instead, he blasted down the course like his tail was on fire, and the pics we got of it afterward showed the same joyous doggy grin that Capri had. Closer to the topic of scars and injuries, there are many race videos of dogs falling, getting up and rejoining the race. Some get spooked by shiny floors, but Capri is one of those where she runs in the house, falls on the kitchen floor, regains her feet and keeps going. Some minor injuries from that, but she doesn't let them slow her down.

Ajax appears to be able to hold it for that long also. What I failed to express was that I think it should be the dog's choice whether to pee or not. In other words, it's better to give him more opportunities and it be his choice, than to make him struggle to hold it when he has to go really bad and end up soiling your carpets.

We finally kicked our issue with Capri, and her story is different from others. Everybody was trying to convince me that it was a behavior problem, that she wasn't house trained, which got my back up. (LOL, momma bear: do NOT insult my baby girl!) So we went the full round of vet tests and treatments for UTI, tumors, incontinence, etc. What finally kicked it for us was setting up a web cam in the house, so we could see what she was doing. It was behavioral after all, but not that she wasn't house broken in the normal sense. She's just an independent personality, and if she has to go and nobody is around, she will help herself. The telltale was that she always went in the same spot, same posture: in front of the back sliding glass door, facing out. It was as close to being outside as she could get; logical little pup! After we implemented a potty break immediately before we left the house and before she gets her lunchtime snack, on top of our normal walk and potty break routine, things got better. Then after a few months of frequent required potty breaks, she learned to trust that we will come let her out before she pops, so she holds it longer. So it was behavioral in the sense that it took a little more training for us to teach her to fully trust us to be home in time to let her potty rather than taking matters into her own ... paws. She also learned somewhere along the way to ask to be let out, although we didn't consciously teach that. Part of the problem with her is that she can have a full bladder but ignore it until we were walking out the door and as the door closed she was suddenly like "wait, I have to pee! ARGH!" but we were gone. (Caught that on camera, it was also a big clue, although it looked just like separation anxiety.) So we would tell her when to pee and not let her back in until she at least squeezed out a drop or two. Now she knows the routine and we're all happier. I do recommend not making your dog hold it for 10 hours, though! I sure can't hold my pee for even 5 hours, let alone 10, can you? So I recommend you either get a doggy door or hire a mid-day petsitter to give your pup a mid day potty break.

Agree with everybody and also Bri's comment that fawns show scars more. I've noticed that as well. I've also noticed that brindles are really good at hiding scars. Which is fortunate for me - Capri has a few that are entirely my fault so I'd hate to have to explain them to people! (I don't abuse her, just didn't supervise adequately a few times when she was new to us.)

Especially as the OP said they asked for a quieter hound who wouldn't be bouncing around the house a lot! They gave the op the exact opposite of what he asked for.

Despite my earlier comments, your first report back after speaking to the adoption group put my mind to rest. Others have hinted around this, but I'll be blunt and say I think we may have been played just a little, and not by the adoption group. (Love the reference to three sides to every story (Babylon 5 - Kosh's reference to a "three-edged sword"?): my side, your side and the truth. LOL!)

It's a travesty. After some thought I hope they just told the OP that to make her feel worse. That would be a nasty, horrible thing to do, but just a shade less horrible than actually euthanising the dog. Either way, this is a group to avoid. They should be ashamed.

This is totally armchair quarterbacking and I realize I have no control over the situation, but it really appalls me that the adoption group would jump to this on merely those symptoms - without getting an MRI or CT scan of Ami's brain. I know it costs a lot, but come ON! For the last two years I've been working with galgo rescue and watching Tina from Galgos del Sol get appropriate medical care for dogs in MUCH worse shape than Ami and get them fixed up and homed. She gets the dogs what they need, then posts pictures and asks for donations and people jump to help out. I guess this is another example of how this adoption group is poor. AmisMom, I'm so SO sorry for what you've gone through and that not only did you have to suffer the guilt of returning her, but then to also hear that they're going to destroy her. It makes me want to cry and I'm not even there. When you're ready to try again, do NOT use this adoption group. There are many out there who truly serve the best interest of the dogs and will set you AND THE DOG up to succeed, not fail. :

Just in case Amis_mom comes back to read this after things settle... As I mentioned, I made a few mistakes with my greys. Capri came to us with sleep startle. While most of the time we respected her bed space, once I did try to pet her when she was on her bed and she snapped at me. Got me in the forehead, but fortunately not a bite. She's extremely good at bite inhibition and what she did was just bang her front teeth against my forehead. It got my attention. I felt like a fool and never did that again. However, I did take about 2 calm, casual years to gradually teach her not to be sleep-startled. We still respect her in her night time bed, but now she knows that furniture is shared space. Now we cuddle and nap together on the couch. We also had an anxiety issue with Ajax. When we first got him, we thought he was an undisciplined squirrel-brain on the leash. It took us a couple weeks to realize that he was just anxious and afraid of being in a new place. We backed off to very short walks with him, gradually making them longer over weeks which taught him that our neighborhood is a safe place. Once he gained confidence in the new home and us, he stopped being a freakazoid. And if you do try again with another greyhound, set aside any thoughts of training for the first six months. Do enforce house manners (no jumping on the counter, etc), but don't worry about sit or down or doing anything on command. Use that time instead to get to know and trust each other. When the new dog is ready to learn, he will let you know. He'll become clearly engaged with you, ready to learn. We also tried to give Ajax some training too early and he would avoid looking at us so we assumed he was kind of stupid. We did manage to teach him to down by hand signal and that's it. So we dropped it altogether. But about eight months later, as I reached for a treat box, he downed himself and gazed at me with the most direct, eager, sparkly eyes you'd ever seen. Exactly like an eager student, sitting at my feet, eager to hear a story. Since then, he's learned lots of things, including sit. Greyhounds are just sensitive and don't respond well to being forced to do things they're no comfortable with. I remember one new couple who took their new dog home and tried to use the "tuck and fold" method to teach him to sit the first day. They were telling me a few days later that he would run away from them whenever they got too close. Fortunately they were smart enough to realize that was a problem and stopped and rebuilt their relationship without any pressure to sit.

I agree with this. Going back to Housetraining 101 and Alone Training will also teach him that the new home is a safe place. Be gentle and calm with him because you basically need to teach him that everything is okay and give him new, positive associations with your new home. Any punishment (even NO!) can be associated in his head as evidence that the new place is a scary, bad place. Reward him for doing good, ignore the mistakes, give him lots of happy times.

Just found this thread. Stories like this make me wish that the OP lived near me, because I would totally go over there and check out the situation and help out. I agree with everybody about the trainer who used a completely WRONG approach with a new greyhound. I also agree that the OP isn't a bad owner, but I get the sense they could use some coaching on how to relate to a greyhound. They're a bit different from other dogs in terms of building trust and needing a calm, friendly hand. I wonder if the OP is trying to use alpha training techniques because that's still so pervasive in our society? But anyway, I respect the OP's decision to return the dog. I just think it's a bit premature to consider themselves a failure as doggy owners and never try again. Greyhounds were my first dog too, so I made some mistakes. But once they taught me about themselves, I discovered that they're really the easiest keepers. OP, do try again after some time?

This is my two cents, but since you don't know your hound that well yet, I would wait on the training class. He needs more time to get to know you and feel secure with you, and you need time to evaluate how he is with other dogs. Even if you do start training class now, I would not muzzle him. It just sends a poor message, either that he's a biter or that you can't trust him, and if that's the case why did you bring him there? We greyhound people are used to seeing basket muzzles and knowing they don't mean those things, but other people often don't. An alternative is private in-home training. It doesn't necessarily cost more than a group class. We did that for Capri for her first obedience class, more because we didn't trust other dogs than her, but it turned out very well. She didn't have to wait her turn for things and it was all centered around her. (Which as she will tell you is the correct and proper way of things. LOL )

Capri's favorite trick is catching treats. Lately I've started tossing them over her head to make her jump a bit for them. It's pretty cute, especially when I throw one when she's not expecting it and she still catches it. She's about 50/50 on her unexpected catch rate, closer to 95% when I let her prepare for incoming. And since she's too smart for my own good... yes, now she fixates on my hands, so when I try to teach her new hand signals for different things, she just looks around to find the treat she thinks I threw. So I don't recommend teaching catch if you use hand signals.

We've been working on getting Ajax to back directly into a sit without doing a pushup, and he's almost got it. It was just as tricky for me to figure out how to get him to do what I wanted as it was for him to... well, do what I wanted. But I seem to have stumbled on a method. He's got very low tolerance for frustration, so if he can't figure out what I want in about two seconds, he will start avoiding. So it takes microscopic baby steps with him. I started by getting him to sphinx-sit like he normally does and then gradually using my body to close up the space he's allowed. Basically crowding him so that he can't fully sphinx. That worked because he started to do it without putting his elbows fully down. Once that was somewhat consistent, I put a traffic lead on him and ooooohhhh sooooooo geenntttlyyyy with microscopic decreases in leash length started to use that to prevent him from going into a sphinx. Simply holding his head up with a short leash while asking him to sit sent him into a full on Woody Allen neurotic freakout "sit? okay. wait I can't. argh you want me to sit but you wont let me argh argh argh". I mention this as an example for new greyhound owners who have trouble teaching sit. With some dogs it just takes massive patience and the teensiest of progress. I also started to teach Capri shake hands. Batmom, you said that would be a good way to get her to stay in a sit? LOL Probably eventually, but right now when I pick up her paw, her butt pops off the floor so fast it makes your head spin. Unlike Jaxxy, though, she's a smart cookie with patience and high frustration tolerance and it's already starting to gel in her mind what I'm asking. She started to hold one paw up when she sits... not quite what I wanted, but a reasonable deduction. I need to get her to not fixate on my hands because they give her treats, and also teach her that just because I pick up her paw it doesn't mean she did something wrong. We'll work more and she may master it by later today, but right now she does this: sit, stare at my hand as it reaches for her paw, stand up when I touch her paw, wondering what I'm going to do with it.