Time4ANap
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5 hours ago, macoduck said:
My podenco boy Howie was on galliprant for a couple of months to see if it helped the severe arthritis in his bowed front legs. There was no improvement. Tried Fresh Factors supplements for months and they did nothing. He's now on gabapentin and it has helped somewhat. It hurts to see him get up and tried to walk after he's been laying down for a while. Vet did not want him on carprofen because he's on clomicalm.
My next consideration is the Get Up & Go products from the Greyhound Gang. Have you tried that yet, Don?
Hi Ducky,
We have not tried those. Our dogs since Rocket have been on the Frsh Factors and Springtime Joint Helth product. We saw a big difference in Rocket's activity level after we started using those years ago, and have just kept all of the dogs on those as a daily supplement.
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6 hours ago, ramonaghan said:
Galliprant is supposed to be safer for kidneys/liver than other NSAIDs. We tried it with Sweep and she did fine with it, but we didn't feel it was as effective as Previcox for her (also old racing injury and arthritis). She was on that off and on from age 5 til she passed at 12.5. Her kidneys were only starting to decline a bit at the end, but that very well could have been chemo too. Still, I'd probably try Galliprant first for my current two.
Interesting that you mention the crooked walking. Willa does that too. I'd never seen or heard of it before. We know she had a racing injury of some sort but no specifics.
Hope LaVida gets a good report this week.
Thanks - As far as recent labs go, LaVida's kidneys are fine. Labs were done last month and some were done again at the E-Vet. We've had a number of seniors on carprofen with no issues, most of them in their later years as mobility decreased with pain evident. I think the ER vet was probably being overly cautious about the Carprofen as he had a whole laundry list of things that he wanted to check for 4 grand. Um, no....
I actually put her back on ithe Carprofen tonight but will likely give it once a day istead of twice until I talk to the vet. She was just holding herself kind of hunched and the crooked walk was really bad. I can tell that she definitelty got some relief already. Also, Stella is going to be heading home to Denver next week which will mean that LaVida will do a whole lot less running, chasing and jumping which should help.
10 hours ago, Johnfar said:Librela perhaps?
Not familiar with it but will research it. Thanks.
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When LaVida had her recent collapse / possible vestibular event, she was on a combination of Gabapentin and Carprofen daily for pain. Our vet prescribed these meds for pain related to arthritis and an old leg injury from her racing days. The leg doesn't slow her down any, but based on the way she holds it we know that it was hurting. At the time we started the meds, she was walking slightly crooked based on the way she was holding her body, most likley due to arthritis in the hip.
The combination of meds worked well for her. When she collapsed and ended up at the E-Vet in the middle of the night, they advised to take her off of the Carprofen due to the long term side effects of the drug. They felt that it might have been a factor in her collapse, but couldn't prove or disprove that theory.
We left her on the Gabapentin dose of 200mg twice a day but stopped the Carprofen. Now that she has been off of the Carprofen, she is once again holding her body at an angle so I'm thinking she needs another med. We have not done her follow up yet with our regular vet and have been waiting to do that until we knew what impacts, if any there were from the collapse. She has been perfectly normal otherwise, and I just started seeing her holding her body like this again yesterday. Otherwise, she is running, jumping, playing and digging her hole in the yard like she's 3 years old. She does not know her age.
What alternatives to gabapenin have fewer side effects and will help with what I'm guessing is arthritis pain based on the x-rays, and maybe just some overall age related body aches? Any experience with them will help. We will be getting her tothe vet this week for follow up.
Thanks!
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Sid,Odin, Punkin, and Annie,
Mark and LaVida said that you should come to Phoenix and catch some rays in the back yard with them. You can leave the boots at home.
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Does this butt make my nose look small?
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LaVida Update:
LaVida is 100% back to her old self. To prove that she showed us last night that she can still fit Stella's head in her mouth.
My Mom is here visiting and LaVida has followed her into the guest room every night and slept in there with her, but has also made occasional appearances back in the master bedroom where her collapse happened. She does not appear to be afraid to come back into the bedroom now, and working the system, going to Mom for pets about 50 times a day.
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Just an Update - Urine and Fecal checks are all good. Vet appointment tomorrow just to follow up and decide if we should do one more x-ray or an ultrasound. There have been no more spasms since Friday night. I also stoppped the dental additive in his food after that one and there has been no spasm or obvious stomach discomfort since. I'm leaning toward waiting to see if the spasms continue now that the dental additive has been stopped before moving forward with x-ray or ultrasound.
The dental additive was a Vetriscience product that some other owners have good results with, and his teeth did improve while using it. Not worth it if it causes tummy issues though.
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1 hour ago, FiveRoooooers said:
How is Mark doing?
All normal. No more spasms that we've seen.
Urine and stool samples went tothe vet today. Vet appt late Wednesday. Urine was really dark so probably good that we are checking it.
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I would ask the vet to check for laryngeal paralysis
Coughing after extertion can be one symptom but there are numerous symptoms having to do with heat intolerance, exercise intolerance etc. Better to rule it out than not check for it.
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It appears there is udder chaos at your house.
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57 minutes ago, ahicks51 said:
Minerva split her ear, I forget how it happened, maybe rough play- but we had the same thing. Wouldn't stop bleeding.
What we did was slather on "EMT Gel," and then the next day MORE EMT Gel, and the next day MORE EMT Gel, and it kind of kept sticking and formed this hard crust. Eventually, the wound underneath it all granulated, and this big chunk of EMT Gel + fur dropped off, and the skin underneath was beautiful.
I have eyed those individually wrapped pear thingies, wondering absentmindedly if they'd work the same way greysmom recommends. They are pretty fragile stuff, so they might have to get replaced daily.
If you can get a measurment that netting is available through Amazon in a bunch of sizes. https://www.amazon.com/McKesson-Elastic-Retainer-Dressing-18-1/dp/B08V5LYC3R/ref=psdc_8297370011_t3_B00C30QB5I?th=1
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They stick with you no matter how long they've been gone and it's like they just left yesterday.
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Snickers got like this with the "bleep" on TV. We couldn't have any of the reality shows on when she was staying here. I'm not sure if a cause was ever determined but I think her owner suspected thyroid changes. I do know that it no longer bothers her because tthe last time she was here, she paid no attention to it.
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When Petunia was attacked by a foster I ended up needing to use Quick Clot Powder on a piece of skin that wouldn't stop bleeding. I would say that piece of skin was similar to what you have there with the ear. The vet didn't want me to use it except as a last resort, but after days of the thing bleeding off and on, I decided to move forward, and it didn't bleed again after using the Quick Clot. You will likely still need tto wrap it as others have said to prevent movement until the healing starts and movement no longer makes it bleed.
The newer version of Quick Clot apprently don't burn like the older vmovement doesn't make it bleed again. ersion. There is also Quick Clot impregnated Gauze if you can find it in a pharmacy.
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2 hours ago, FiveRoooooers said:
4:00am, sigh.
Do you notice the spasms only when Mark is standing or also when he’s lying down? Just curious.
Standing, although when the rock was in there spasms were noticeable lying down also.
I had a thought a little while ago that we'd better do a hookworm check on Monday since he was eating poop when the rock went in. Greysmom also suggested a fecal which made me think about hooks. The dogs haven't been out of the yard for quite a while as we haven't been walking during the 8 weeks or so that I had the flu, but you know how that goes. They were hook positive a year ago when they came here and we've had lots of clean fecals since, but you just never know and it's easy enough to check. We have no signs of hooks though and they've all been on their monthly preventatives since we eradicated the hooks with the Modified Prison Protocol.
Not checking something this basic is what will ultimately bite us.
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I'm so sorry, Aaron. Run pain-free, Hazer.
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21 minutes ago, greysmom said:
My first thought was perhaps the rock caused an ulcer or other internal issue that was causing some sort of pain spasming.
It does look a bit like hiccupping spasms or really fast reverse sneezing spasms, but with no sound coming out it's super weird. I think hiccupping is related to a nerve spasm, so perhaps it's more that sort of thing. Are his abdominal muscles engaging during a attack or is his abdomen more soft?
I think all those things - lab work, urinalysis, fecal too - are in order, along with an ultrasound and maybe a quick xray just to be thorough. Next time it happens see if you can check his heart rate while it's going on and compare it to his normal resting heartrate. Can you feel a femoral pulse? Is he ataxic at all during an episode? Is he responding neurologically or totally checked out like during a seizure? Temperature change? Drooling? Nystagmus or other eye movements?
What's his recovery period like afterward? Are they all the same length?
Just some questions off the top of my head.
Everything is literally normal during the spasm. There is no change to anything else, no panting, no pulse change etc. He did have a rapid heart beat during the spasms when the rock was in his stomach, but this is 5 days later before the next spasm occurred and there's no rhyme or reason to when it occurs. Sometimes he is just walking around or standing still with the spasm happening, but it's not impeding his walking and he's not heaving like he was when the rock first went in. We only see it when he is standing or walking and not every time - it's very random. He is as normal as his normal gets in all other respects.
I opened a new can of Purina Salmon and Beef food last night before it started, of which he only had a spoonful as a topper on his meal. I don't know if he had any of that food last week when this started so I'm going to stop giving him that one and see if the spasm subsides. I'm still thinking some kind of sensitivity to food or one of his supplements is a possibility.
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Petunia had them constantly and I think that Kate also had them if I'm remembering correctly.
I think there's a thread somewhere talking about using the Burt's Bees Hand Salve to soften them. I know that's what Miss Petunia had rubbed into her pads every night for her "
cornsspa treatment." -
2 hours ago, ramonaghan said:
How was everyone's night?
All quiet. Everyone went outside at 4AM because apparently that seemed like a good time to go out in the middle of the night.
Mark still has the spasms happening off and on but they really aren't impacting anything and are fairly mild. No heaving, no obvious pain whether belly or spine related, peeing and pooping normally.
I am going to take a urine sample in on Monday as I noticed a strong odor outside that makes me think his urine has a strange odor. Will check for a UTI, but I think that's going to be a separate issue from the spasms. I suspect we are going to need to check bloodwork and do an ultrasound to find out what's going on.. I think he's due for his senior panel in March anyway, so we can do that a little early.
Thanks for checking.
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1 hour ago, macoduck said:
Lower back spasms rather than belly? Is his walking gait normal?
Definitely belly spasms. He is the most normal dog ever except for the fluttering abdomen.
2 hours ago, ramonaghan said:Aww, one of Sweep's late in life discoveries. She loved that stuff!
I hope you all have an uneventful weekend. You've had enough drama for a while.
We have company this week so we bought the good stuff.
Thanks!
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2 minutes ago, FiveRoooooers said:
Having the x-rays is great. I think the next thing I would have to consider is getting an abdominal ultrasound. If he’s turning down a reliable treat that is concerning.
That was my thought too. I will send the new video to the vet but it will be Monday before I hear anything back. The E-Vet is our only option on the weekend, so as long as this doesn't turn into any kind of emergency and he's not in any distress we will just be monitoring him.
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14 minutes ago, ramonaghan said:
Willa's had hiccups a few times since we adopted her (I'd never seen that before either) and they've been silent but much slower.
The allergy theory's a good one, but I'd also be inclined to try again to get that Gas-X in him. I assume the poop was/has been normal—no straining?
Poop normal, no straining, normal appetite etc. As a doctor once said about me, "the worst case of normal I've ever seen."
I will try some lunch meat or a piece of hot dog with the Gas-X. This is a dog who never turns down cheese so I guess we have to go to something with better smells.
EDIT - Gas-X on board. What were the odds he'd like Boar's Head Roast Beef?
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12 minutes ago, Jerilyn said:
It seems a bit fast but maybe hiccups? Wiki had them once, I had never seen a dog with them before.
No noise from the stomach and other than the belch with the Gas-X there's no noise, nothing coming from the mouth. The vet we saw last week has been a vet for 23 years and described it as "weird" when she viewed a video of it. We started using a dental additive that gets mixed into the food about 2 months ago and I'm wondering if he has an allergy or sensitivity to something in it. I think we will eliminate that and see if this stops even though they are random occurrences. We have to start somewhere.
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Tonight after eating and going out for a bowel movement, Mark came back into the house and within about 3 minutes was having the stomach or intestinal spasm that resulted in us going to the vet last week when the x-ray found a rock in his stomach. The rock was thrown up on Monday and I haven't seen this spasm since. I have no reason to think that he ate another rock because he has not been alone outside - he gets chaperoned and there is nothing on the ground for him to eat.
Here is a quick video of the spasm. He does not seem to be in distress but does stand up until the spasm stops. He refused a piece of cheese with Gas-X in it which is unusual - he usually doesn't turn it down. I am not hearing any stomach squeals but Gas-X was resulting in a big belch from him dueing last week's incident so I was going to give it just in case.
Anyone seen this kind of spasm previously? X-Rays last week didn't show anything other than the rock which was removed. This only lasts a couple minutes and then he goes back to normal. He's sleeping on his bed as I type this.
It does look a bit like hiccupping spasms or really fast reverse sneezing spasms, but with no sound coming out it's super weird. I think hiccupping is related to a nerve spasm, so perhaps it's more that sort of thing. 
Alternative To Carprofen?
in Health and Medical discussion
Posted · Edited by Time4ANap
We did a full workup with a physical rehab vet right around Christmas. They felt that with the pain meds working at the time, LaVida would probably be fine just going for short walks, and maybe some cold laser or the Asiss ioop we've been discussing. She holds her foot in a way that throws off her gait. I'm really thinking that her activity level will diminish without Stella here and she will be much more "back to normal." Since the E-Vet was more worried about long-term effects of the Carprofen and it wasn't related to her collapse, I went ahead and put her back on it last night at one dose daily instead of two until we get a feel for how well that works and we consult with the vet. I'm hoping all of this becomes a non-issue once Stella is gone, as none of this happened until LaVida decided that she could keep up with the young dog.
Thanks - good info!