MaryJane

I'm redoing the math for the dosages and you may be OK. There is a range and Lucy is at the high end (she clusters) and it looks like Thyme is at the low end.

OK, that is good that the Valium is kept away from light. Also that you fill syringes as needed. I see the bottle is 5mg/ml - that is what I use ..... so you do need to check the dosage - should be much higher. Check the link that I gave you (2nd) and it discusses the rectal valium dose.

Please relax, the first few weeks will be a bit nerve-racking but, after awhile, this all gets to be old hat .... really. Since she was clustering (more than 1 seizure in 24 hours), she really needs to be on medicine. She was also seizing more than once in 4 weeks. Just one of these conditions would indicate a need for medicine - Thyme had two.

I might suggest that you get back to the office and ask why is the dose in the syringe and ask about the dosage as it seems that it is an oral and not a rectal dosage. I'm so sorry that you need to do this, I had hoped that it would go perfectly for you but, I'm finding that there are always glitches with getting the treatments right for seizure dogs. I might suggest that you reference the second page link that I provided earlier with your neurologist and find out why you have such a minimal dose. The only reason that I am suggesting this is that the dose may not be adequate to stop the seizures and you don't want to be in that position. As I mentioned Lucy is 68 pounds and she gets 16 ml. When she gets it- she's zonked out but, that is what you want to keep the seizure activity at bay. I'm confused now, did they pre-fill the syringes for you? That is what I assumed from a previous post .....

This is one page on the rectal valium http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/OralandRectalProtocol.htm#How%20is%20the%20proper%20dose%20determined This page talks about the dosage http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/rectal_valium.htm Also, Valium should not be stored in a syringe, they should have given you the brown vials and you would have to draw it up yourself at the time of the incident. Valium pretty much breaks down with exposure to light (that's why the brown vials) and it will react with the plastic. Regular vets do this all the time with the oral dosage (rather than rectal) and putting it in syringes already .. not sure why???

You only have one syringe?

The 3ml rectal valium is not enough - it should be about 14 to 16 ml and with that, 3 ml will do nothing, that sounds like an oral dose and not rectal. Lucy weighs 68 pounds and she gets 16 ml after each seizure (up to about 3 times). Please check the strength of the vials and post again. Lucy started on Zonsiamide and she didn't have any side effects but, she was one of the few that it stopped working to control the seizures after about a year. I never noticed Lucy's eyes, I'm usually too busy trying to keep her on my lap with her legs controlled and her head is facing away from me. MRI and spinal will rule out a tumor. If you would plan to operate if they found a tumor, then have the tests done but, if you would just treat the symptoms (seizures) then, not much sense to have the MRI. In any case and from what I have been told, brain tumors usually progress to the point that it would be obvious in about 18 months anyway. I was going to have an MRI and spinal for a baseline but decided after thinking about it that if I was going to have the money for it to be done only once (well .. maybe twice), I would rather save it for a time when the information might be more critical to have. So far, I have been happy with my decision.

Good Point, in Lucy's case I had been adding an addition and a small part of my existing 100 year old home was also being renovated. The neurologists concern was lead. Lucy was tested and was negative. We were also concerned about the floors being sanded and finish added but no test available to see if that was the cause. Also think whether there are different smells (candles) in the house. Lucy can trigger from smells (lily flowers) so I have stopped using all cleaners that have the pine smell (the "sols" like pinesol, lysol).

Just noticed that you said low phosphorous and high protein -- not quite right. The protein should be less but of a high quality so very usable. So both protein and phosphorus should be less. Raw would not be suitable (too much protein) although as mentioned above, the commercial kidney diets work ok.

All the medicines have pros and cons and the neurologist will be able to cover that well. Let me add a bit of what I found out when I was researching. - Pheno can give you great seizure control but, can cause liver issues and as a result, tests every 6 months or so. If you go to regular vet, this is the one they usually know about and will prescribe. - Kbr - can give great seizure control but can cause issues like pancreatitis (must watch fat content of food and also salt) - Zonisamide - is one that is gaining in popularity with neurologists as a 1st medicine. Very few side effects but, in some cases has "grace period, works for about 1 years and then stops. This is what happened to Lucy. - Keppra - another one that is gaining in popularity but, seems to be used as an add-in to an existing drug. Very few side effects. Also in some cases, seems to have a grace period and then stops working or not as effective. Downside is expensive. These are the most common - there are others. Lucy started with Zonisamide and we got 1+ year with seizures controlled (less than 1 seizure per month). Keppra was added once she went into 2nd set of clusters. Keppra with Zoni worked for about 7 months and just recently in August of this year we had to add Kbr because she was having seizures about once a week. Note, once you put a dog on medicines, they usually don't come off the medicine. And, it is not easy switching from one type to another -- can be done but, the risk is seizure activity. Most times it seems that neurologists will add on drugs, rarely do you go the other route which is taking drugs away and moving to another. The rule of thumb that neurologists seem to use (IMHO) is if there is less than 1 seizure a month and if a dog is not clustering, then the dog may not need seizure drugs, at least not yet. Clustering means more than 1 seizure within 24 hours. Thyme already seems to be having more than 1 seizure a month -- seems like it might be about 4 at this time. But, the seizures are not GM and maybe the neurologist will wait a bit to see what happens with the next seizure. Whether you get seizure medicines and whether you get a cluster-buster are two different topics. Seizure medicines depend on how often and the type of seizures and also whether clustering. The cluster-buster is an "emergency measure" so that if you have a dog that has a second seizure within 24 hours, you can try to make sure that they stay far enough away (time-wise) from the next seizure so that the dog does not go into "status epilectus" which pretty much becomes a death sentence. The long seizures can cause brain damage if they are allowed to continue as well as the damage from the over-heating. It's all about controlling the seizures. Make sure that you don't come home tomorrow without a "cluster-buster". You want a fast acting one - rectal valium is very quick. You may never need the rectal valium but, it is such a good feeling to know that you have it. Something to remember is that most people will have a seizure free period and then decide to discontinue the seizure medicine and the seizures come back faster and more furious than before and sometimes ... not controllable anymore. It was the medicine that was keeping the seizures AT BAY. The seizures don't get "cured". Let us know how the neurology appointment goes tomorrow.

She doesn't seem aggressive so, you don't need to give her much space. You don't want to bundle her up and squeeze her but, just get her on the ground, hold her head, pet her, and keep her legs from jerking around. One thing I keep around the house (in a few locations) is small mats that I can use to cover Lucy's legs (and mine) and to wipe the drool from her mouth. Lucy has GM seizures and they are very violent for the short time she has them. I still manage to hold her and keep her on the ground so she doesn't hurt herself but, she can fling herself across the room - that's how bad the spasms are. Once she starts to become aware, I get her up but, only after she can walk - I don't like her stumbling around. The following is a video (from youtube) of a GM seizure. That is the type of seizure that will cause over-heating if it goes on for too long. If you have to take a temperature, get a rectal one. You can also feel the dog heating up. That's another reason that I give Lucy ice cream after a seizure - it's frozen so it can cool her down a bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rzIXhju_2c I agree, seizures seem to happen at "not so great times".

I just watched the video and that seizure was not too bad but, it was seizure activity. She seemed to be aware through most of it and she calmed down when someone was holding her and petting her. I might suggest that if she has another one, do that same thing as it might shorten the duration of the seizure. She did seem scared and aware, so some reassurance might help if she has another one.

That's why you need to get the rectal valium - that will usually keep the seizures from happening too close together. The concern is when the seizures start to happen right after the other as that can lead to a seizure that does not stop - that is life threatening. Your neurologist will tell you when you need to take Thyme into the ER but, usually it will be: 1. high temperature 2. seizure not stopping 3. seizures happening too close together 4. Post behavior bad and not getting better If you have rectal valium, you might be able to prevent #3, it keeps the seizures to about every 4 hours or so (I have to check exact times but, I think that is the 1/2 life). If you have rectal valium, you can also try and give during a seizure (#2) but, this is tough. Even getting a small amount in can help to stop the seizure. For #1, if the seizures are not long or not happening often, usually the temperature does not elevate so this hopefully will be a non-issue. But, you do need to remember that the temperature goes up during seizures so having cold cloths might help. As to #4 on post behavior, Lucy's used to be very bad but, I started to give ice cream right after a seizure (even before I give the rectal valium) as the drop in sugar resulting from the contractions during a seizure will eventually be replaced, but I don't like to take the chance as low blood sugar can also lead to seizures. When you take a dog into the ER, the procedures they will do are to give valium thru IV (or some other anti-convulsant) and to make sure the temperature is not spiking. Blood work does not usually show anything so no sense doing that. Although, you might want to get a thyroid workup every year. Work out some scenarios tonight and discuss them all with the neurologist tomorrow. That way when a seizure happens you will have your checklist as to whether you can handle at home or have to go to ER. Seizures are scary but, you stay calm and work thru the procedure you set up. You learn to take it a day at a time .... (or sometimes ... a hour at a time). When a dog has a seizure - the next 24 hours are important - if they are cluster dogs, they might seize again within that period.

The first statement was just that -- a statement indicating that just because things happen at the same time, does not mean they are related but, it also does mean that they are unrelated. Research is based on showing correlation so, this statement seems like it is trying to discount that some correlation has occurred. The second statement says "MOST EXPERIMENTS" ..... implies that there are "SOME". I used to manage a hospital lab in the evening and while most full moons went by without incident, there were the nights that the "weird" things would happen --- like the night someone walked into the ER with a 6 foot spear going through his throat(he survived). Some of these studies looked at activity in the ER and most people working in the ER would tell you that it's not necessarily more busy - sometimes it's eerily quiet, just the night that the strangeness is going to happen. The studies are not looking at the types of activity, only how much. So, research does not always prove one way or the other. I hope that you saw the study on the sleep deprivation and how some researchers are now thinking this could have have something to do with increased seizure activity.

I would suggest going with a home-made low protein diet (low phosphorous). Larry has kidney issues for years (creat high with low specific gravity) and I feed no more than about 1/2 cup of meat a day. He also gets white rice, veggies, potatoes, oatmeal and vitamin supplements. Good Luck

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/moon.html http://www.nbcnews.com/health/full-moon-can-mess-your-sleep-new-study-finds-6C10743979 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2374220/The-best-time-heart-attack-When-moon-new-studies-show.html http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10363673 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16407788 edited to add ... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1817481 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20028313

There are actually 4 phases and dogs (people too) which can coincide with seizure activity. When there is a full moon (opposing), new moon (in same position), and at the two 90 degree angles from another. Some dogs (people) are sensitive to all, some to only 1 -- and some to none at all, it depends. There are also eclipses which can cause even more stress. There was a solar on Nov 3rd and a lunar eclipse last month. So this is an active time.

I was curious as to where they were sourced and made. I checked the web site and it does say made in USA but, does not say where the pig ears come from.

From some of the facebook epi lists, both dogs and people already having issues.

Make a list of questions. Make sure that he/she prescribes some type of cluster-buster and if it is rectal Valium, make sure they show you how to use it. Find out the exact dosages of cluster-buster and when to use it (for example, with rectal valium I can do about 3 a day). Find out when you need to take to ER (how many seizures, lasting how long, how much time inbetween). I made it clear to the neurologist that I wanted to manage the seizures at home and we approached everything from "how I handle" it. We also discussed when it was beyond what I could do and would need to head to ER. Discuss all the medicines available even though they might wait a bit before starting (but, then again maybe not since there seems to be continuing seizure type activity happening). Get the pros and cons of all the medicines. Good luck and let us know how it all turns out.

A dog should know how to heel. My dogs are not off sniffing when I'm walking until we get to the "sniffing place" where all the dogs in the neighborhood leave their mark. My dogs usually do not walk in front of me either as that would be a good way for me to fall. I've taught most of my dog to do a very close heel where they are literally glued to my left leg - that has helped when we have to go through crowds or even in small aisles like in Petco.

Is the appointment with a neurologist? Hard to tell from the posts.

And .... the article states that one of the ingredients is made in China ....

You might want to call the greyhound adoption groups and ask which vet they currently use. My vet (Dr Mason at Dedham Vet), sees a few greyhounds but would not really be classified as having a lot of experience with greyhounds but, I haven't had any reason to complain about her treatment of my greys. Also consider Angel Memorial, it's a great ER and the specialists there are very good - my dogs end up there quite a bit with ER visits and Lucy's neuro is there.

If you haven't already done so ... time to make an appointment with the neurologist. You need to get rectal valium or some other cluster-buster. Most people don't realize that dogs (and people) can die from seizures. It's called "status epilepticus". I didn't mention it before but, there are some great facebook groups for canine epilepsy and there is also epil-k9 email group and web site. These are great resources..... http://canine-epilepsy.com/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/9991858369/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/28498589557/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/dogswithepilepsy/