greyhead

We're doing the same eating dance with Shane, Ron. He seems to have a kidney infection, which has kept me busy and is why I stepped off this thread. In our case, antibiotics and sub-q fluids are the ticket to recovery, but the a/b's don't help appetite at all. But we've had good luck with scrambled eggs and Costco rotisserie chicken. A whole chicken is only $5! I know the dark meat is better, but we're not going to waste the white meat since he'll eat it! A FB friend suggested putting his canned kidney-diet food in a blender with some Ensure. She had used that for syringe feeding a dog for a while, and he ate it on his own when he got a little better. Maybe you could do something like that with Leia's dog food? In any case, you guys have been in my thoughts, and I do check in here to see how it's going.

Thanks, Kathy and Tracy. The culture came back negative, so they do think it's a kidney infection. (We have an internist appointment Wednesday and may ultrasound at that time.) He was doing better with the fluids he got Wednesday and the Baytril, but he declined again yesterday (not eating, return of pu/pd). So I called around to find a vet who had Lactated Ringers in stock. Couldn't find my vet, though, to authorize the sale. So we had to go 40 miles back to the e-vet. (There's a closer one, but I don't trust them, and the farther one has been evaluating/treating him these last 8 months.) They reran the blood work and there had been some improvement -- creatinine moved from 3.2 to 3.1, and BUN from 40 to 33. So we feel we're on the right track with the treatment, at least. But it took 4 hours and $400+ when all I really needed was some more bags of fluids! <sigh> It took so long because some actual emergencies arrived right after we did, and two of them did die. But Shane wouldn't lie down the whole time and can't stand in one area for too long because of his LSS, so we walked around inside the building the whole time. Fortunately, that took his mind off his troubles and reduced his panting some, and everyone found him charming. But after all that, he couldn't jump back into the car, so a tech and I each took and end and lifted him. It was $98 for three fluid kits! I'm told there's a supply problem? I don't know how long we'll have to continue fluids or if the infection will get beaten back and he won't continue to need them. We used to buy them by the case from East Coast suppliers (that's where they all were) for our CRF cat, but I think there are some distribution points in the West now. What's up with all these "supply problems" in vet products that drive prices sky high and/or make things entirely unavailable?

I'm so very sorry your girl left so soon.

I'm so sorry, Cynthia. It's such a shock and so devastating. Wishing you peace.

He will be missed so much by so many! I'm very sorry.

Wishing you luck!

She did mention pyelonephritis in the report as a possibility, and it's not the first time that has come up. So how does a UTI get distinguished from a kidney infection? Diagnostic tests and/or treatments performed: CBC: WBC 6.9k, hct 65% (historically normal for this patient), plt 175k Chem: BUN 40, creat 3,2, K 3.8, AlkP 129, rest wnl UA: slightly green in color, usg 1.015, pH 5.0, trace protein, RBC 4-8/hpf, WBC 0-3/hpf, no bacteria noted. Urine culture not started (pending at rDVM)

We haven't got the discharge report yet -- they'll email it to me tonight -- since they wanted him to be able to go home. They ran blood work while we were still there, and his kidney values are high -- creatinine at 3.6 IIRC 3.2 and BUN at 40, both being significant increases for him. He was dehydrated, so they gave him sub-q fluids; we didn't think he'd do well being kept overnight for IV fluids. We'll give him more sub-q at home tomorrow. They were still processing the urinalysis, which she'll send me the results of tonight too, but we decided to treat him empirically for now with Baytril. The culture results will be available eventually, and then we'll see if anything needs adjusting. There's some hope that the kidney values have been elevated by the infection and could come back down with treatment. Natch, I hope it's mostly the infection, but he has had long-standing but slow elevation of his kidney values for years. Thanks *very much* for the information and for letting me vent earlier! (I'll post again if anything interesting comes with the discharge info later tonight.) ETA: I drove in the HOV lane with my sick *passenger* and I make no apologies! I was full prepared to hand any interested police the phone number of the e-vet to confirm that we were expected, and to pay whatever ticket might ensue. It really does feel like that, doing the "wrong" thing for the right reason.

It seems the culture was sent to a lab in Kansas! WTH?! They are analyzing a free catch here now. He was lost 5 lbs since last weighed 10 days ago. :-(

The blood work is running now, and so far no word on the culture. The e.r. is trying to find out if a urinalysis was done.

Thank you! However, that means I have to drag Shane 40 miles up the road in rush hour to take him to the closest good ER place. If it's not a UTI, it's his kidneys that are making him drink a lot, pee a lot, and eat very little. ETA: For the last four days.

How long should it take for a lab to figure out if there's a germ growing in a urine culture? I realize the sensitivity part adds time, but they wouldn't be doing that unless the culture was positive for something, right? I took the sample in two days ago.

I don't know, Ron, but I would suspect not permanently! Hopefully, it won't come to that. You might try grain-free, corn-free kibble, like Natural Balance venison and sweet potato. Spencer lived on that, plus raw venison, for four years. But until the immune system calms down, like with budesonide, you risk her developing a reaction to every novel protein you try, and then there won't be any more novel proteins -- except maybe kangaroo and emu. And frankly, those come in formulas that are too fancy (lots of additions like cranberries, kelp, etc. etc.) that create more complexity than IBD dogs can handle.

Is Leia taking metronidazole or tylosin, Ron? We had to use both. Tylosin is very bitter, so we put it in gel caps and gave it that way. You probably will have to give one or the other to get past the runny poops.

Oh my gosh, what a lovely tribute to a greyt relationship. I'm so sorry your time together was brief, but you sure packed a lot into it, didn't you! I just wish you didn't have to hurt.

Jen, I'm just going to wish you luck and leave the conversation. I feel like I've said everything I can about hypothyroidism already, and you've been around long enough to have seen it.

I remember Lexy and Gunner, and I'm so sorry for your losses. I put my two cents' worth about Clipper in your new thread.

These symptoms could be several things. One thing is a resurgence of worms that have been dormant. Stress can do that. Sometimes when there's tummy gurgling, as opposed to just lip-licking, we give Pepto Bismol. Or if it's a less liquidy-sounding gurgle, we'll give Gas-X. I kind of doubt that stress itself would cause that much metronidazole-responsive diarrhea. But it might have set him up for physical problems to ensue. I'm sure others will chime in with suggestions here too, but I'd think you need to talk to your vet since he/she knows the history of this. I guess I'd just reiterate a caution I sometimes feel compelled to offer, which is not to over-psychologize the dog. Not that they don't have grief and other emotions, because they do. (We went through it last year at our house.) But if it segues into physical problems, we need to solve those physical problems, and then the psychology tends to improve when they feel better.

Oh, poor Toby. Hope he heals up quickly and loses the pain. We'll hold him in our best thoughts, along with you.

"Your paragraph about cognitive confusion was what started this , so far,,4 month process. Maybe we are on the right course finally." I don't remember what I said, but I hope I didn't bolster the idea that she had CCD. There are so many things that can cause poor cognition, and dementia is only one of them. Btw, I still have budesonide (in various strengths) from Spencer. PM me if you want them. We got them compounded at Roadrunner Pharmacy in Arizona. (They ship the first order overnight at no extra charge, or at least they used to.) But they're not cheap. You'll probably also need to try the prescription diet food with hydrolyzed protein. Until the inflammation is brought under control, if she has IBD, she'll develop an inflammatory response to each form of protein you give her. That's why they eat something new for a couple days and then won't touch it. Let me know if I can be of any help at all.

You don't really want to try the soloxine, do you, Jen?

We knew that Spencer actually had low B-12, and we found that out weeks before we diagnosed the IBD (for which he took budesonide). He got two B-12 shots per week for the first month, IIRC. (We bought the bottle and the syringes/needles from the vet, which is much cheaper than having it done at the vet each time. But you can buy B-12 through Amazon, and we get syringes from Drs. Foster & Smith because they don't require a prescription in WA.) Before diagnosing the B-12 deficiency, Spencer was showing cognitive confusion, low appetite, and got to where he could barely get up! The B-12 worked within hours. After that first month of twice-weekly shots, we went to twice-monthly shots. In answer to your question, we could tell when the effect was wearing off at that point. So the vets said it was okay even though once a month was standard. I'm glad your vet will use budesonide if necessary instead of prednisone. It's the best for older greys with intractable GI inflammation. (ETA: Spencer, having IBD, needed both the B-12 *and* the budesonide. We were able to discontinue the budesonide after a couple years, but we never discontinued the B-12.) So glad she's doing better!

And just give her the B-12. It can't hurt and potentially can help a whole lot!

Oh my, you had too short a time together, didn't you. I'm so very sorry he couldn't stay longer.

Godspeed Sally.