greyhead

Spencer is so much like him -- same size, same temperament, same behavior. Thanks for explaining it all so well! I DO understand how completely you can fall for a dog like this! And welcome to GT!

Hate it when I lost a post before I even post it! Let me try again. Urinalysis may be a good idea to the extent that they look for things focused on kidney function, like specific gravity and presence of protein, rather than UTI-related stuff. Kidney function can decline with age, and my experience with two cats and one greyhound with kidney issues taught me that it can promote a more exaggerated startle response. (The vet confirmed that that was not my imagination.)

That doesn't sound like normal aging to me. But something has changed. Hormone levels do change over the lifespan, so checking the thyroid is a very good idea. With dogs already on thyroid medicine, they may need less as they age. (We recently cut our 11-year-old's dose in half after running a complete panel.) As to what you should tell the vet, what you wrote here seems like a good thing to print out and give to him. Personally, I have no fear of "meds for life" and don't really understand why others do, but I think it has something to do with the era in which we're raised. Best wishes in getting it sorted out for both your sakes.

One of the articles referenced in the article you linked to, Kerry, pointed out that double-blind studies of chiropractic can't even be done. The practitioner who performs a technique like that can't be blind to what he's doing. So I doubt there are studies of that kind that have been done or could be done. I guess the correlate of that fact is that there have not been such gold-standard studies that have in fact shown chiropractic to be ineffective. It was strange to me that the linked article expressed such skepticism, even disdain, about subluxations. Subluxations aren't anything mysterious or ineffable; they're bony structures out of place and they are visible on x-rays.

Dogs don't necessarily eat poop just because it's there. In our family it was due to intestinal malabsorption and consequent anemia. You should probably discuss this with your vet and maybe do some testing. Here's an article that lists the possibilities. http://www.petmd.com...CFQF7hwodqGn6oA Your dog's lack of enthusiasm for eating his food may mean something medical.

Congratulations, Tessa and Ducky!

There sure are other bacteria out there! Wanting to learn more about the possibilities myself during Spencer's drama, I found this web page which is pretty exhaustive about the possibilities, kinds of anaerobic and aerobic bacteria, and how they are detected. Warning: It's geeky! http://users.rcn.com...#proteobacteria Note that it for some reason opens in the middle of the article. Just scroll up to the top to start from the beginning.

What other kinds of behavioral things is he doing? Chewing strange things, for instance?

Tommy will be in our thoughts and prayers, for sure. Looking forward to hearing you tell us that it's just arthritis.

If at all possible, get the poop sample to go directly from the dog into the container. That way there's no question whether the germ really came from the ground. We used a butter tub that had been through the sterilizing cycle in the dishwasher. Glad to help. We lubs Rocket!

Based on our experience, I'd recommend you get a fecal culture & sensitivity performed. Spencer had a long tussle with Clostridium perfringens, which is an anaerobic bacterium, and got very sick, even unto permanent IBD, because it took months to get the vet to do the culture. Here's a link to one of the simplest vet-authored articles on it: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=17&A=2239&S=1 Not saying that it's Clostridium, but when you speak of the stagnant-water smell, I think anaerobic bacteria. My point is that getting stuck on the idea of giardia could just slow you down, as could just repeating standard fecal tests. I could write a dissertation on this subject (sigh). But maybe the most important thing I could say, apart from the above, is that even though many bacteria appear normally in the gut and therefore the stool, it is the number of each kind that is telling. The lab doing the C&S knows what the expected numbers are. When there are "way, way, way, way more" than that (which is what the tech reported to me about Spencer's C. perfringens), then you know it's a problem. Oh, and it took three antibiotics, two weeks each, to get it under control. One of them was Flagyl, but the usual dose for the usual length of time, was totally insufficient. So if you decide this is the kind of testing you want, you may have to get insistent that the vet order the C&S, as I finally had to do, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Wishing you good luck, in any case!

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/224938-degenerative-arthritis-advice/page__hl__IMPA Since no one with experience has come forward yet, I checked and found this thread I'd saved from 2009. Post #17 has some good info from Jordan. At least it will get you started. Hugs to you and scritches to Cash!

We used it, at Racindog's suggestion, about a year ago. Shane had a large red swelling on the outer edge of a paw, and the vet didn't have a clue. Looked like maybe two little bite-like marks in the middle of it. (We do have spiders, non-poisonous snakes, and lots of other wildlife that traipse through the yard.) It was NOT going away, and it was angry looking. So we got the pescalite clay from the nice folks in Wyoming who provide it and mixed it with spring water as suggested, and wrapped a bit of plastic wrap to keep it moist and in place. Changed it a couple times a day, IIRC. It took at least two weeks of that, but it did the trick.

I'm so sorry.

I'm very, very sorry for the loss of Toby and Emma before him. That was a lovely tribute.

I'm so very sorry for your loss. Hugs to you and your family, and hopes that your hearts soon heal.

Rest well, Apu.

Oh, and I'd be completely remiss if I didn't mention that treating older greys like ours with prednisone is almost certainly not the way to go. Budesonide is the way to go, IMO and the opinion of most others on this board who have experience with IBD. If you need more info about that, just ask.

One of our greys developed IBD after an extended period of diarrhea due to a bacterial overgrowth in the intestines. If the vet hadn't resisted doing a fecal culture & sensitivity until I finally just ordered it to be done, it might not have come to that. After treating that helped immensely but didn't completely resolve the situation, we did an ultrasound, which showed the lymphangiectasia and structural changes consistent with IBD. An ultrasound can give you a pretty good picture of the whole situation -- ALL the internal organs if you like. Unlike biopsy, it can visually show exactly where the problem(s) is(are). In our grey's case, it was at and near the place where the small intestine meets the large. A surgical biopsy could have gotten to it, but an endoscopy could not have gotten there from either end. If we had done the surgical biopsy the first time it was mentioned, that was before the bacterial overgrowth was discovered, and cutting into that area without knowing that might have allowed that infection to have spread farther than it already was. Lastly, I want to mention that we decided, with the support of our vet, that the biopsy results wouldn't really change the treatment plan but would put an older and already depleted hound at greater risk. But most internists will not work on an IBD case without a diagnosis obtained through biopsy. We looked carefully and finally did find one that would supervise the excellent treatment plan our vet had already put in place. (Yes, it took that long to find the internist.) Personally, I don't care for an approach to medicine that is one-size-fits-all, but oftentimes with internists that's what you get. You get the textbook (advanced though it may be) answer to diagnosis and treatment. Internists have their place certainly, but we've learned we have to be willing to thank them for their input and make up our own minds with the help of that information and the judgment of our vet and ourselves. We also had all the other tests performed that have been mentioned here, by the way. Apart from them, when you get to looking for IBD, I'd start with the ultrasound. It's relatively inexpensive, non-invasive, gives lots of information about the whole GI system, and will let you know if endoscopy is even doable and where the incision of a surgical biopsy should most productively be made. Oh, and those B-12 injections are hugely helpful but they don't cure anything. They do need to be continued for life, as I understand it, and we give them at home. Which reminds me of another thing I've learned through this process of caring for my greys: just because a brief treatment with something doesn't solve the whole problem, that doesn't mean that the treatment isn't doing something important. It may mean that the treatment needs to be given longer, and/or at a higher dose, and/or that there are more problems that haven't been detected yet but need to be. Wishing you all good things as you work through these issues.

Like Jen, I'm also curious what other things they do for humans, so I hope you'll post about it! We have an LS dog too, and we've used combined acupuncture and chiropractic treatments for it. Still doing that, but have had to add meds now. Hope you can get hooked up with good treatment for your dog! ETA: Oops, you were writing while I was! Thanks for the info.

We have no knowledge or experience, S usan, but hope others do and give you some good advice. Hugs to you and Albert, and special scritches to Opie.

Hey Lucy, sending good thoughts for you. But nothing bad can happen to a pretty girl in a Cat in the Hat collar on a nice soft bed! And you look like you know that, sweetie. Let us know how it goes.

I'm so sorry Toby's time came, too soon. He had a great dog dad in you. Run free, Toby.

I'm so sorry, Mary Pat. Rest well, Crystal, knowing you were loved.

Please don't feel that you have to defend yourself. FWIW, there can be a kidney problem that doesn't show up in tests. Someone on GT (sorry, I forget who) has a dog who had perfect kidney blood values yet distinct kidney disease shown by ultrasound. (I don't recall what his or her urine protein was.) If I can figure out who that GT-er is, I'll let you know. In any case, I'm not arguing with you, just sharing info. And one further bit: Our Shane had incontinence and leakage until we put him on medium-protein kidney diet. (Also a small amount of protein in urine and 2.2 creatinine. Nothing showing on ultrasound.) And whenever we've tried putting him back on regular food, the leakage increases; it goes away as soon as we put him back on the kidney food. (Oh, and he's hypothyroid too, for whatever that's worth.) We (and his vet) believe Shane's leakage issues may be TBD related. We're about to retreat him for Babesia this week, and after that we'll treat him with amoxicillin for Lyme. He was positive for Lyme last fall, but we we waiting for follow-up tests and for his tummy functions to improve before treating. ETA: I think the GTer I was thinking of earlier is Gracegirl and her boy Fenway. Here's the thread: http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/269224-fenways-mystery-pee-problems-ultrasound-results-kidney-damage/page__p__4861692__hl__ultrasound__fromsearch__1?do=findComment&comment=4861692