NeylasMom

Another minor update: my vet had suggested on Saturday that we go ahead and try a course of broad-spectrum antibiotics in case it is bacterial. Obviously that wouldn't resolve the bone issue, but at this point we don't know what's causing her the most pain so it makes sense to me to do what she suggested and just see. I ran it by Lisa, who ran it by Dr. Canapp and he was at least okay with it, so we're going to try a course of Clavamox. They think I should notice a difference in 2 weeks or so, although it would take 4-6 weeks to see improvement on the x-ray, so we'll start her on them and play it by ear. In the meantime, I guess I'm going to schedule the surgery for about 6 weeks out - she'll have to be off of the antibiotics 2 weeks prior to the surgery so that we can biopsy the toe properly once removed. This does mean in the meantime though no Tramadol or acupuncture as we need to be able to evaluate whether the antibiotics are doing anything. So no real sense of relief and while I'm happy to postpone the surgery, it means Neyla doesn't get relief for that much longer. Does anyone have other suggestions for things I may not be thinking of? I'm starting to realize that these vets, as knowledgeable and even as dedicated as they are, are much like many doctors in that they often go directly to one of a few solutions they know rather than really thinking through the situation and evaluating all of the options. With multiple vets at least I'm getting different ideas to bounce off of them, but I still feel like no one's completely invested in figuring out the best solution - it's just chop it off, or wait and see. So I am open to and appreciate any and all suggestions. In the meantime, fingers crossed that the antibiotics actually do something! Oh, I asked for a ballpark figure on the surgery, just to brighten my Monday a bit more - $1200-1500! I figured it would be up there, but actually hearing it...

For those of you who know about lepto, please give me your two cents on whether doxy was warranted in this case. Brutus is a stray pit mix who was adopted by a friend of mine. After adopting, Andy had a full exam for Brutus and for some reason they did a lepto titre, which was positive. He appeared to be totally healthy, but bloodwork revealed somewhat high kidney (he thinks, suppose it could have been liver) values. They decided they would do regular bloodwork to monitor him since he wasn't visibly ill at the time. My assumption here is that he had some kidney damage from the lepto infection, but that he had beat the infection off so he no longer had an acute illness, but could have still been a carrier (or not). Years later, Brutus started to get sick. Primarily he was vomiting. Andy took him in and they reran bloodwork, then they scheduled him for further testing (I believe an ultrasound). The day before it was scheduled, Brutus was much worse (no real quality of life) and Andy made the decision to let him go. The dog was never given doxy. So...I ask you, from my information, and from my additional reading today, it sounds to me like the vet should have given the dog a course of doxy when the titre initially came back to make sure he wasn't a carrier and that he no longer had any critters in his kidneys. Is there any reason you can think of that this wouldn't have been warranted? Andy admits his memory is a bit faulty (this was a few years ago, and he probably lacked the background knowledge to fully understand what his vet was telling him at the time, especially when he was emotional about his dog being ill), but assuming I have the story correct, I don't understand!

The creatinine seems fine for a grey. Have you done full thyroid and TBD panels? That's where I'd go since your bloodwork was recent. Full thyroid from MSU and TBD from NC if you can. If not, full TBD from Protatek and follow-up testing from NC if necessary depending on what shows up in the results.

So I sent my list of questions off to Dr. Canapp a week and a half ago (two Thursday ago to be exact) and finally heard back from him on Sunday. I'm irritated to say the least with how long it took him to get back to me and the succinctness of his email response once he finally did, so I will probably try reaching him by phone to follow-up one final time, but here's what his email said: All of your thoughts regarding performing the amputation sooner then later make sense. As for your concerns regarding complications I can tell you we use a very strict protocol for sight hounds and have never had a reaction. The only concern I have regarding this procedure would be the risk of dehiscence (the incision opening up). The chance of this is very low (less than 5%) however, the area around the toe has an increased risk of infection and stress to the surgical site due to the fact that they walk immediately post-op. Therefore, we will use extended antibiotics and keep a splint on post-op to protect the incision. Now that we're here, I'm thinking about taking her to Dr. Radcliffe for a new x-ray and one final opinion. He did tell me to see him before I let anyone chop off Neyla's toe. The problem is, I don't have any time! I could maybe manage a visit with him next Saturday (the 29th) and I suppose I could start the process of scheduling the surgery with Dr. Canapp in the interim and cancel if I decide not to go through with it. It's just more and more time and Neyla has really been dragging on walks lately. I guess maybe I should also try giving her some Tramadol again. I hate to use those types of meds though. We had to stop the Rimadyl b/c she was getting bruises all over. My vet also does acupuncture - I think I should talk to her about that as a possible way to manage Neyla's pain until we do the surgery or otherwise resolve the problem. For those of you who have used it, does that seem like a reasonable idea, or is it more effective for muscle injuries, etc.? Are we really at this point???

ask them about milk thistle, vitamin E and Sam E. all are considered to be awesome liver detoxifiers. Misty is on all three and the addition of oatmeal to her diet brought all the liver values back to completely normal. You can also get milk thistle from omahavaccines.com - it's called Marin on the site. I get my sam-e at Costco, Naturemade brand. Keep kicking that cancer's a$$ Lacey!

I think losing those 5 lbs would be much more productive in terms of injury prevention than the joint supplements would be. Otherwise, I agree with Burpdog, not necessary yet unless you encounter a problem. I started Neyla on chondroitin/glucosamine around the age of 5, but that was after months of trying to get a muscle tear to heal. Honestly, not sure we needed to keep her on it, but I did. It's not a huge expense so I didn't see any harm in it. If you're not opposed to feeding some raw food, trachea, gullet, and chicken feet are all good natural sources of chondroitin/glucosamine that can be given as treats or meals.

Great news! My candle is lit. I hope the vet visit goes well and Lacey can start her treatment and the healing process soon!

I'm in tears, was hoping for a full recovery for Peter. I know it doesn't help, but you have my condolences. I hope you are soon left with only good memories of your time with your boy.

Really hoping you get some answers from OSU. We're all pulling for Peter! :hope

Off the floor (ie. no "clicks"). I would say if anything these guys need to have shorter nails than other breeds, who often rely on walking on the ground to grind their nails down. In the case of greyhounds, you can have other foot problems develop if nails are left too long. Sounds like you're on the right track with the dremeling, I would just keep at it, maybe 2-3 itimes per week until the quicks have receded and you have them the length you want, then you can switch to weekly for maintenance.

That was me. Search for 'Zuri' - there are two threads on his overheating episodes. My best advice, don't exercise Maya where you won't have access to cold running water now that you know she may be prone to overheating, and carry a digital thermometer with you. You want to cool the dog until the temp reaches around 103, then stop. There is a risk that the temp will drop too low otherwise. You can see some other suggestions in my last thread for things to keep on hand - we'll be making a "first aid" kit for our car. As far as what to look for, Zuri gets very lethargic (can barely walk or stand and doesn't react to me calling him), his eyes start squinting closed and his gums get bright red, plus of course a ton of heavy panting. I know what you went through, it's extremely scary, and you did the right thing by getting cold water on her immediately. I think doing so saved Zuri's life, the same is probably true for Maya.

I'm so sorry to hear that things have taken a turn for the worse. I second the question regarding OSU. They are not miracle workers, but they have SO much more experience with tough cases like these. Please contact Dr. Couto yourself if you need to. Keep us posted and we'll be wishing your boy well.

What about someone putting something like rat poison in your yard? A friend of mine had a shared yard with a neighbor who didn't care for her pups and we're almost positive he got sick due to rat poison that they put out. Horrible though, but could happen nonetheless. It sounds like at this point though your vet is doing everything she can. Glad to hear he's being monitored 24/7 - keep us posted! Still wishing good thoughts for you guys. Jen

his stool can vary dramatically depending on what he's eating, but there was nothing out of the ordinary about it. definitely very mucousy, but that's normal with rawfeeding at times.

Hi Peter, Can I strongly suggest that you start the doxy treatment as others have suggested while you wait? A lepto test takes nearly a week to get back and the dog will be gone by then. Same thing can happen with TBDs. The only TBD of the main ones that isn't treated by doxy is babesia, which requires imidocarb (or imizol, same thing, different name) and that's not something you'd just want to start treatment with, especially when the dog is already pretty ill, but doxy, aside from the possibility of some normal antibiotic side effects (stomach upset mainly) generally doesn't cause problems. Your vet could confirm whether it could safely be given along with the current meds (not sure about the Baytril in particular since it's also an antibiotic that can cause stomach upset - some pepcid AC might help with that though). Also, do make sure your vet reaches someone at OSU. You might want to also email them all of the information if the vet doesn't reach someone by phone immediately. You'll want to include any abnormal lab results (and the reference ranges) or fax a copy of those over, as well as list off everything you've done so far. I'll keep your boy in my thoughts this weekend. Do keep us posted! Jen

None of the above. Mine are on a raw diet and haven't had any of those items lately. I want to say that Zuri has had orange-y stool before, but I can't remember for certain. Otherwise his stool is normal (and isn't consistent, today's was not orange) - I'm just paranoid b/c of his second overheating episode. We have an appt set up for his annual exam next Saturday so only a little over a week away. He's also been what I would describe as lethargic the last day or two. But this is lethargic for him - it would be totally normal behavior from any other greyhound. He's just more mellow, and I'm not seeing his usual SA behaviors. So he could be growing up (!) or there could be something wrong with him. Anyway, I'm not particularly concerned, just watching for now, but I figured I'd throw it out there. I couldn't find anything on the web.

Has anyone heard of orange stool being indicative of an illness? If so, which ones?

I would travel. You never know what might be missed by someone who isn't greyhound-savvy. And it's personally very important to me that I have not have to push my vet on everything - like for instance if my dog were ill and I wanted to run a tick panel, I wouldn't want to have to fight with them on it when they told me Babesia wasn't found around here so don't bother. And trust me, I hear a lot of stories from our adopters about this type of stuff happening (and see it here as well). It can also be confusing to have more than one vet treating a dog - something could be missed in the back and forth. Right now I drive about a half an hour to my vet, I used to drive more like 45 minutes. It sucks, but I think it's well worth it. That's just me though.

I am familiar with it, and have read Dr. Stack's article. I didn't think this fit the bill, but I'll make sure to ask Dr. Canapp when I call back. We certainly didn't discuss it. Thanks!

I'm so sorry.

Sending good wishes, hoping we get a good report from the vet soon!

FYI, we're not talking about amputating the entire toe, just the P-1 (the very tip, where the nail grows). This is a weight-bearing toe and Dr. Canapp felt very strongly that amputating the whole toe is a whole different ballgame in terms of how that would affect her ability to run/play and overall health, and most importantly not necessary.

So we saw Dr. Canapp on Friday. He is AWESOME (btw Meredith, you neglected to mention that he's also quite handsome - too bad he's already married!). Anyway, he felt that based on Neyla's x-ray she has some bone deterioration in the P-1 part of her toe likely due to a fungal or bacterial infection, which would also be causing the nail to grow in damaged and then fall off. Unfortunately he said the only way to determine what's causing it is to get in there. Treating with antibiotics doesn't otherwise make sense since we wouldn't know which one to use, and he feels anti-fungals are risky in greyhounds b/c of their side effects unless you're sure that's what you're dealing with. He also pointed out that the bone really doesn't have much padding around it at the tip, so it seems to actually be pressing against her skin (there are some places that are red and hard and that made me think maybe she had gotten glass in her foot). This made total sense for me and really cleared that issue up. It's amazing what a specialist can see that a regular vet can't, isn't it? Anyway, so Dr. Canapp basically gave me two choices: remove the P-1, which he described as basically an outpatient procedure, or wait and see. I ended up scheduling a recheck for 3 months from now, at which point we'll redo x-rays with the understanding that I would think it over and let him know if I wanted to just go ahead with the amputation or would contact him if things got worse. So at this point, I've decided to give myself at least a week or two to mull things over. Want to see how she's doing, and also get your opinions and those of some other more experienced friends and let it all sink in. Then I'll go back to Dr. Canapp with some questions and give myself another couple of weeks before reaching any sort of decision. Right now, some things I'm mulling over: - If the toe is infected (bacterial or fungal) is there any risk of it spreading to the P-2? - If the bone is pressing against the skin, is there any chance the pain can lessen from that (I don't see how)? - Dr. Canapp also felt there was a corn somewhere in that pad that is what we were seeing (it's now gone) and would resurface. If you buy into the friction argument for corn development, it's quite feasible that the corn is developing b/c of her odd gait, or just the odd shape of her toe from the underlying issue, so amputating might also relieve the corn problem, at least to some extent? In all honesty, I am not one to just put my dog under the knife so to speak. And I recognize that although Dr. Canapp describes this as an outpatient procedure and that he could probably do it with his eyes closed, it's STILL surgery, and Neyla has a history of reacting poorly to anesthesia, making it even more risky. Having said all of that, I don't see how her pain is going to improve. There is also the small concern that someone with a similar issue brought to my attention - if things do improve or seem manageable and we don't do the amputation, and somewhere down the road Neyla (god forbid) develops osteo and has another leg amputated, then we no longer have the option to deal with this toe if the pain returns. So that's where I'm at. I'm really hoping that amputation isn't the necessary solution, but am allowing for the possibility that it may be the best thing in the end. I would really appreciate any input, especially from those of you who have been following along this whole time. ETA: In particular, suggestions for any additional questions I should ask Dr. Canapp when I call him back would be appreciated. Want to do that by tomorrow I think so I can hear back before the weekend. Thanks, Jen

Ugh, I feel for you. The day of my fourth of July party I was out getting my deck ready, hanging lights, etc. when something started swarming around me. I moved away, then kept working. Eventually I made my way back to the same area (whatever was swarming was gone) and suddenly, bam, I was stung. Only then did I do some research and learn that yellowjackets are really nasty about defending their nests. Turns out they had just started building it that morning so there were really only a few of them and yet I still got it. Since I had a group of friends coming over to watch fireworks FROM MY DECK I went to Lowe's and bought several bottles of wasp/hornet killer and came back and drowned those :censored ! But I was able to do it from inside my house, with my arm just sticking out through the sliding door. No way I'd mess with a huge nest in my yard, even at night! Hope the pups are okay!

Doesn't sound like overheating, but panting is often a sign of pain. Is she still panting or is she feeling better?