What To Do When Dog Wont Eat

[carronstar]

Please don't take this as a flame, or bashing you, or anything else, I beg you. This is just a question because I think your current vet is doing you a disservice and is making you doubt yourself and he/she is not doing what is best for Snow. So, here goes,

 

Do you need someone to take Snow?

 

You have any number of truly knowledgable people on here telling you that Snow isn't in kidney failure yet your vet has her on a very high dose of Enalapril and is only willing to sanction and restricted kidney diet. It feels like this vet is caring for your wallet more than your dog.

 

Please, don't anyone else flame me either.

[Brandiandwe]

No flames here. Gutsy but what I've been thinking.

[Guest IrskasMom]

Please listen to JJNg or Jennifer . She is an experienced Vet . Get a second Opinion Please

[Guest kar]

funny thing is my vet did consult with a specialist - she recommended the ultrasound - blood work for every tick related disease (some I had not even heard of) All came back negative which I was very happy about. I think vet is not saying she is in late stage renal failure but is trying to delay renal failure. Again I am not a vet - I work in the human medical field which is entirely different I am going to try to locate another vet. I am also going to put her on over the counter food. Today she did eat the royal canin canned. I had already ordered it so I guess I am stuck with it. If she does not eat it I will give it away. I don't know if protein loosing neuropathy is different than the regular renal failure. I am not a vet but I do know that the other dogs from her litter also have it and they are on a kidney diet. I will change her food - I am going to ask for her bloodwork copies tomorrow. Had a work meeting after work today so could not get them. Her breeder is the one who told me to test her for pln after I called her concerned that she had several urinary tract infections. She told me that pln was in her dog's bloodlines. She is no longer breeding. I do value your advice and help. She is due to have another urine protein creatin ratio is about two weeks. He wanted to recheck in one month. I too was concerned about the enalapril increase.

what is post number 36?

[Guest MnMDogs]

I'm sorry, I'm only in at night, and I'm just skimming, but are you actually reading the comments and suggestions from the vet and vet tech here? Or from any of us, for that matter. Because from what I can see, you're focusing on a medical condition Snow does NOT have based on the experts here, but you're treating her as if she does have it.

[Guest kar]

I am reading the comments - and I am changing her food. And I will research another vet. I will call for her bloodwork copies and urinalysis tomorrow - so I am ready.

 

found the post with the doctors - thanks

Edited July 23, 2014 by kar

[Batmom]

Hoping things work out well. I know how frustrated you must feel.

[JJNg]

You mentioned that your vet consulted with a specialist. Have you considered taking Snow to the specialist yourself for a direct consultation, rather than going through your vet? Has the specialist been involved in the recommendations for diet and medications, and how concerned are they about Snow's (urine protein:creatnine) UPC ratios?

Looking back, I saw that your original post about Snow being diagnosed with PLN was back in October 2011, and she had a UPC of 0.7 at the time. If the most recent UPC from last month was 1.6, and her bloodwork is all completely normal, her PLN really hasn't progressed much in almost 3 years.

One benefit of getting a 2nd opinion is getting a fresh set of eyes on the matter. It's possible that Snow's intermittent appetite isn't related to her PLN at all. Has she lost weight? If not, and she's eating enough to maintain, her appetite issues could even be behavioral. Sometimes getting too worried about a dog's eating habits, and making a big deal out of mealtimes, can cause the dog to get stressed and not want to eat.

[carronstar]

You mentioned that your vet consulted with a specialist. Have you considered taking Snow to the specialist yourself for a direct consultation, rather than going through your vet? Has the specialist been involved in the recommendations for diet and medications, and how concerned are they about Snow's (urine protein:creatnine) UPC ratios?

 

Looking back, I saw that your original post about Snow being diagnosed with PLN was back in October 2011, and she had a UPC of 0.7 at the time. If the most recent UPC from last month was 1.6, and her bloodwork is all completely normal, her PLN really hasn't progressed much in almost 3 years.

 

One benefit of getting a 2nd opinion is getting a fresh set of eyes on the matter. It's possible that Snow's intermittent appetite isn't related to her PLN at all. Has she lost weight? If not, and she's eating enough to maintain, her appetite issues could even be behavioral. Sometimes getting too worried about a dog's eating habits, and making a big deal out of mealtimes, can cause the dog to get stressed and not want to eat.

 

This. I was thinking this morning that Snow might be picking up on your feelings of frustration, despair, concern, etc. I would be surprised if you were eating, you have been through a real roller coaster the last few months.

 

Hearing the specialist opinion yourself, and seeing how they are with the dog and you is so important. Just hearing the decision/impression second hand from your vet leaves it open to interpretation. As my vet said at the beginning of Aquitaine's PLN/CRF journey, when he referred me to a specialist, it is the best money to be spent on the journey. She now has two vets who manage and monitor her care and her progress. Thankfully, I only have to pay the specialist when I see him, and my own vet is very generous with his time and discounts. You may very well get better news than your vet has led you to believe.

[Guest kar]

I guess in ct discounts are not given. with my vet I had to put two dogs down within two weeks one grey one chichuhua and the bills were astronomical. in addition to the tests I had to have done for snow. I have made contact with pondpoint animal hosp. not made apt yet but am waiting to gather all of snow's info.

this is lengthy

 

these are snows latest blood values

protein 6.7

albumin 3.1

a/g ratio 1.2

alt 33

alk phosphatase 29

ggtp 5

total bilirubin 0.2

urea nitrogen 14

creatine 1.1

bun/creatine ratio 13

phosphorus 3.3

glucose 98

calcium 9.8

corrected calcium 10.2

magnesium 1.7

sodium 147

potassium 4.3

na/k ratio 34

chloride 113

cholesterol 347

triglycerides 151

amylase 801

lipase 565

cpk 80

Edited July 23, 2014 by kar

[tbhounds]

Have you run a T4?? All else looks ok but, the cholestrol is a bit high-kinda a red flag to check her thyroid. Her renal values are beautiful.

[Guest kar]

she did check her thyroid - t4 was 1.3

 

but then why is her bun/creatinine ratio 1.6

Edited July 23, 2014 by kar

[tbhounds]

I see a ratio of 13-it's fine. Did your vet ever talk about Addison's disease to you?

[Guest kar]

no I am talking about the urine protein/creatine ratio that is 1.6 what is addisons disease

 

that is what shows she is loosing protein in her urine.

Edited July 24, 2014 by kar

[tbhounds]

Your dog has mild proteinuria meaning she's losing some protein through her kidneys into her urine. PLN-protein losing neuropathy. That number can fluctuate at times it can vary depending on the sample provided. For example if your dog had some white or red cells in the urine you will receive an inaccurately high value. Just to put the 1.6 into perspective --I had a hound that's UPC was over 9-she was very sick but, I also had her sister that maintained a UPC of around 1.2-1.6 and remained there for years. She did take enalapril but, at a very low dose (15mgs) and to be completely honest I believe the Dr prescribed that more for me rather than the dog just to please me (I'm a worried owner!)

Looking at your girls bloodwork it does not appear that she does not have chronic renal disease-meaning her kidney's appear to be functioning properly but, they are "leaking" or allowing some protein to pass through them.

What I would like to see also is a urinalysis. One to rule out infection and two to see her specific gravity. The best time to check that is with a first morning voided free catch--meaning have her urinate into a cup as soon as you get up in the a.m.-before she ears or drinks. It should be the most concentrated at that time--concentration is good :-). Don't worry that I mention Addison's-I was just curious.

Did this help?

[Guest kar]

last urinalysis was when she was 6 I know they have done it with each bun/creatine because it is sent out but they did not give it to me. urine culture was negative. done 3 months ago.

urine spec gravity runs 1.026 - 1.030. vet said urine is dilute. don't know what they did not include these results for me on the last upc done 60/20/14 because they always have before. I have this done every three months and it is costly - so I don't know why I did not get full results. I think vet is increasing enalapril because he wants to keep; upc under 2.

 

funny she did mention cushings disease but then quickly dismissed it - said symptoms are not there.

 

just curious did you have your dogs on a low protein diet?

Edited July 24, 2014 by kar

[tbhounds]

The specific gravity sounds perfect-ideally you want it around 1.030 :-). My hound that had the UPC of 1.6 ate anything she wanted :-).

[Guest kar]

was your dog on any meds - did the upc eventually rise? did kidney disease worsen?

[tbhounds]

As I mentioned she was on on the low dose of enalapril---which was dispensed really for me because the vet knew I am very proactive and I felt better giving something rather than not. Her kidneys stayed stable for years, ate what she wanted. I have since lost her to cancer.

Your hound's proteinuria is so very mild---I'm really not sure why your vet is being so focused on it. I really would look for another veterinary clinic at the point.

[carronstar]

As everyone has said, those numbers look good. Is Snow eating her new food?

 

My vet is homecare, he owns his practice, he used to be an oil trader and still trades for himself. He does well for himself and went back to vet school once he had made his money. He was my neighbor when he was a trader. He knows that as a lowly admin at a bank, I don't earn much but would move heaven and earth for my girl. He has been very good to us over the years. When he told me he wanted to come back in his next life as my greyhound, I knew he understood me. Vets in practices that are not their own don't have his leeway on the discount, meds at cost, etc. I am so exceptionally thankful for his kindness.

 

I know how the bloodwork costs, meds, etc. add up. A second opinion could potentially save you that money, plus hours of worry. I hope you get much better answers at your appointment.

[JJNg]

As I mentioned she was on on the low dose of enalapril---which was dispensed really for me because the vet knew I am very proactive and I felt better giving something rather than not. Her kidneys stayed stable for years, ate what she wanted. I have since lost her to cancer.

Your hound's proteinuria is so very mild---I'm really not sure why your vet is being so focused on it. I really would look for another veterinary clinic at the point.

 

Just a thought....Snow's vet may be so focused on the proteinuria for the same reason tbhound's vet dispensed enalapril - because the owner is so worried and wants to be proactive about it. Honestly, for a dog whose UPC was consistently under 1-2 for years, I would not be checking it every 3 months.

[gracegirl]

Were you able to get the remaining results when you were at the vet's office this morning with Snow?

[tbhounds]

Just a thought....Snow's vet may be so focused on the proteinuria for the same reason tbhound's vet dispensed enalapril - because the owner is so worried and wants to be proactive about it. Honestly, for a dog whose UPC was consistently under 1-2 for years, I would not be checking it every 3 months.

But.... 40mgs??? Jennifer--can you guess who the Dr was that humored me--bless him :-)

[JJNg]

But.... 40mgs??? Jennifer--can you guess who the Dr was that humored me--bless him :-)

 

I usually dose enalapril at 0.5 mg/kg once or twice daily, but the dose range in Plumb's goes all the way up to 1 mg/kg q 12-24 hours, so 40 mg daily probably still falls in that range, although on the higher end. Can't remember if kar has ever said how much Snow weighs, but since she's an AKC greyhound, she might be bigger than the average NGA greyhound.

 

And I believe I have a pretty good idea which vet you're referring to.

[Guest kar]

snow is 76 lbs. she is a rather large female. I am taking her to vca internal medicine specialist on Wednesday vet bill for today at my vet was 270. Guess my last bit of money comes out of the bank. But I want answers and my vet although she gave her antibiotics cannot give them (for new problem). I have all the copies of her bloodwork and will bring them with me also.

 

also have contacted pondpoint in milford - did not make that apt yet since this problem arose. But they are a bit far for an emergency and are only open until 12 on Wednesdays. we'll see what the vet says on Wednesday

Edited July 25, 2014 by kar