Training Newly Adopted Greyhounds.

[Guest Lillypad]

Found this interesting article and thought I would share. It may be especially helpful for new to greyhound adoption members. http://awesomepaws.proboards.com/thread/45/fear-pain-training

Edited March 5, 2014 by Lillypad

[Guest june]

Kathrine Gilley was a fantastic trainer and if you have never seen her video with her dancing greyhounds you need to look for it (it must be online somewhere).

Thanks for sharing the link.

[krissy]

I have to admit I am cringing just a little bit.

 

I will not dispute whether her dogs were well trained, obedient, etc. I will not dispute that she was wonderful for the greyhound adoption community as a whole. But I do cringe at the thought of some of these ideas in the hands of unversed, new dog owners.

 

On the whole there is a time and a place for "aversives", of which all of these suggestions are (except for the juice can... I am not sure there is any edible substance that Kili would find aversive as she regularly goes for hot sauce, begs me for slices of oranges, and loves pickles). I will not say that I never use an aversive, however, when I do I think through the situation to make sure there isn't another, better way. And I also distance myself from the aversive if at all possible. The only real example I can think of where I routinely use an aversive is for counter surfing. I do as Gilley suggests with tin cans. I string several tin pop cans together, place several coins in each one, and attach the whole lot to a bone or bully stick for bait. Then I booby trap my counter by leaving the bait at the edge of the counter and the cans right near the back. If the dog goes for the bait, she gets a horrible clatter of cans following her. The trap is never then associated with me which is ideal. When using an aversive you don't want the dog to be able to associate it with you... it's damaging to your relationship. You also want it to only be as noxious as is needed to deter your dog. In other words it needs to be based on the personality of the dog. A sensitive dog might do fine with double sided tape. Kili needed the pop cans. There are some dogs you could probably smack in the head with a 2x4 and they would still get up and be just as happy-go-lucky as before (disclaimer: it is obviously never okay to hit a dog with a 2x4 no matter how obnoxious and resilient his personality... aversive techniques can only be taken so far before they are completely inappropriate regardless of situation and personality!).

 

I would not call myself a seasoned dog owner. I would not call myself a dog trainer. I would not say that I understand even half of what there is to understand about dog behaviour. I do not think that there is absolutely no place for the use of aversive techniques, however, I don't think aversive techniques really have a place for the novice dog owner without the direct supervision of a behaviourist. It is far too easy to abuse the use of aversive techniques.

 

I am no expert take all of that for what it is worth. However, I have taught Kili to be a good citizen (a work that is constantly in progress with a young dog) with the use of positive techniques (aside from booby trapping my counter once or twice) which would work for 99% of other dogs before the use of an adverse technique ever needs to be considered.

 

[shrug] Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth (which is probably not much, lol).

[greytpups]

Kristie, you are very good at what you do so stop selling yourself short. I admit I skim read it and got a weird feeling reading about the cans...now I know why, so thanks for pointing this out.

 

Kathryn Gilley owned greyhounds for a long time and so some of her methods are out of date, but she does have some articles that make sense, i.e. greyhounds in a new home. It's important to share opinions so we all continue to learn.

[NeylasMom]

Krissy, you're spot on.

 

She makes good points in the article about groups being pro-active about providing training that will help dogs adjust to their new home, but frankly, all of the things that she mentions people want out of their dog are things everyone wants out of every dog and need to be taught to every dog. Why else are there pet dog training classes all over the country teaching these basic skills? Greyhounds do have some unique circumstances - I would love to see more foster parents and adopters use counter-conditioning to address reactivity issues over space/being startled awake - but for the most part, they just need training like any other dog new to a home would need.

 

And as Krissy pointed out, the methods outlined in this article are completely out-dated and difficult to use properly. Reward-based training is effective and kind and doesn't carry the risks that punishment based training (even when the punishment is "milder" in the punishers eyes) does.

Edited March 5, 2014 by NeylasMom

[PatricksMom]

I am absolutely not a dog trainer or a vet, but these feel wrong to me, like they would create fear and mistrust, and so I won't use them. I think all of us need to listen to our guts when we feel like something won't work for our dogs and our families.

[Guest Lillypad]

My main thought for posting this article was more for the explanation of the routine life racing greyhounds have pre-adoption, rather than the training methods. Because of a greyhound 's racing background, Isn't it fair to say this is something to keep in mind when puzzled over the root of their behavior in a home environment?

 

Also, I agree, 100 percent positive reinforcement is the most productive form of training.

[Guest Giselle]

Don't feel bad.

 

When I first joined GT (years ago..), the name of the game was this article by K. Gilley. Every single thread on T&B about a newly adopted greyhound was blasted with this article.

 

Our understanding of animal behavior and dog training has improved dramatically and has deepened in ways we never imagined. We now understand canine cognition so much more, and we are just starting to appreciate their emotional and mental nuances on an evidence-based, scientifically-rigorous way. Up until about 20-30 years ago, you wouldn't touch a dog for behavioral science purposes because they were too familiar and "unworthy" of scientific research. Within the last few years, dog behavior research has exploded, as has our understanding of stress in domestic animals. NOW, we have pretty rock solid evidence that +R/-P are the way to go. But back when this was circulating around, this was some of the best we had. That said, yes, a lot of those aversive methods are out of date. But, yes, it was also very helpful in getting non-doggy people to understand the overwhelmingly confusing circumstances we often put our dogs. It is always a nice reminder to see things from our dogs' perspectives and not ours (even if she does do a hefty load of anthropomorphizing )

[Guest Lillypad]

I hear you, Giselle, after I re-read the article (it's a long one) I thought her anthropomorphizing was a little tedious, but rationalized considering it was for the sake of entertainment, as she was a keynote speaker at this event.

 

One thing I want to share/admit for your viewpoint. I had my concerns about Lilly's cohabitation with the cat. If this was not possible I would have to return her. After all the cat had seniority in our home. It was suggested to me to take her for a good walk around the neighborhood, in order to tier her out after a long car ride of resting, BEFORE bringing into our home. Introduce her to the cat and if she made a threatening move toward the cat "hit her good with the spray" and say "OFF". Well, when she came into the house she did lunge at the cat, I sprayed her (she was not overly offended and just backed up). A short while later she tried her attempt at the cat again and once again I sprayed her. She never tried a third time and she and the cat get along great and I truly believe she has a great respect for the cat, not fear, but respect. I won't go into examples but they are there. Now having said all of this ... was it really the spray, would they have resolved things on their own, could I have used a different method... admittedly I really don't know. At that time (2-years ago) I had no skills or resources to do anything differently. BTW, Lilly has no residual fear of spray bottles, I use one often when grooming (was I just lucky??)

 

I also want to mention that I have been following your site and blog. We are taking Rally-O classes at this time and your information about heeling, pivot work and lagging is very helpful. Thank you.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Lillypad