Guest Lindsey Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 What Pam said. So, if you could wait until 18 months to spay or neuter the dog (so the growth plates are closed), you wouldn't? What is the point of having an intact dog if you are not breeding or showing? Retired racers can flunk out of schooling at the age of 18 months - my first greyhound did. The nice thing about greyhounds is that they "grow up" pretty slowly, so, at 18 months they're very trainable, but also very well muscled. Ideal for performance, really. So, at 18 months the growth plates are closed, you get the dog spayed or neutered, and you have a nice pet that you can do performance with if that's what you're looking for. At nearly age 12 now my little baby greyhound is gray in the face, but still shows up greyhounds that are 2 and 3 years old. She was well muscled when I got her at 18 months and is STILL well muscled because I've taken good care of her. She could easily do lure coursing and still kick some @$$. I really appreciate the suggestions, but I won't bend on the keeping the dog intact. I believe it has more health benefits than just the growth plates. I know a lot of people don't agree or don't understand but it's just not something I'm going to compromise on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macoduck Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Lindsey, thank you for the links, though they are not a convincing enough argument for me to think they are right. The first link's references were really old. The second one's from the American Kennel Club who are all about breeding. And the third one, the blog, was very opinionated and the references were old. I would be very curious to see Dr Couto's opinion on those views, particularly regarding bone cancer. Dr Couto is head of the Ohio State University's Greyhound Health & Wellness program. http://greyhound.osu.edu/ Freshy (Droopys Fresh), NoAh the podenco orito, Howie the portuguese podengo maneto Angels: Rita the podenco maneta, Lila, the podenco, Mr X aka Denali, Lulu the podenco andaluz, Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Charlie the iggy, Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lindsey Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) please do look around at the other topics on this site. Lots of good info on lots of topics. Not to mention the cute & funny topic :-) I have been! There is a lot of information here which is why I originally joined! Lindsey, thank you for the links, though they are not a convincing enough argument for me to think they are right.The first link's references were really old. The second one's from the American Kennel Club who are all about breeding. And the third one, the blog, was very opinionated and the references were old. I would be very curious to see Dr Couto's opinion on those views, particularly regarding bone cancer. Dr Couto is head of the Ohio State University's Greyhound Health & Wellness program. http://greyhound.osu.edu/ I didn't think they would be, alone they aren't. For me personally they were enough to stop me from removing parts of my dogs though and start researching and noticing things. I also do hope that more research is put into it. I'm not trying to get anyone else to not alter their dogs, all I'm doing is saying I won't alter mine or own an altered dog and that seems to cause a bit of an uproar. I don't expect anyone to agree, but to respect that choice. ETA: I would be open though to discussing a vasectomy with a rescue, I forgot about that and since the biggest concern for altering seems to be reproduction that might be something to look into. Edited February 3, 2013 by Lindsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 If that's not even something you'd consider budging on, you'll likely be hard pressed to find ANY reputable breeder of greyhounds that will adopt to you. I know people with AKC hounds who were required to spay or neuter at 18 months - contractual obligation. You'll probably find plenty of shady people who'll adopt to you, but, you'll never actually know if you're getting a full-blooded greyhound or not because those people are generally the coyote dog breeders. An intact dog has higher risks for testicular/ovarian cancer, females can get pyometra, males have an increased risk for prostate cancer...how is that a health benefit in anyone's book? Pretty difficult to respect such a selfish choice when there's no good reason behind it. There are so many animals in the world that need homes, it's irresponsible to keep intact dogs for no reason, and doubly irresponsible to keep intact animals of opposite sexes. I don't care how well you sequester an animal when it's in heat...things happen. That's why there are sometimes oops litters of NGA puppies. Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lindsey Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 If that's not even something you'd consider budging on, you'll likely be hard pressed to find ANY reputable breeder of greyhounds that will adopt to you. I know people with AKC hounds who were required to spay or neuter at 18 months - contractual obligation. You'll probably find plenty of shady people who'll adopt to you, but, you'll never actually know if you're getting a full-blooded greyhound or not because those people are generally the coyote dog breeders. An intact dog has higher risks for testicular/ovarian cancer, females can get pyometra, males have an increased risk for prostate cancer...how is that a health benefit in anyone's book? Intact males are shown to be less prone to prostate cancer and both sexes being more at risk for bone cancer in altered (which I'm loosing my childhood dog to currently and would like to not repeat). Females are more at risk of pyometra but that's a risk I'm willing to take. But, that's rather irrelevant since I'm looking at a male greyhound. And testicular cancer is one of the easier cancers to spot and take care of with a castration (which is why I said I will alter if a medical reason pops up that makes me). I've noticed a slow change in breeders take on altering in the last couple years, maybe it won't turn out to be that way with greyhounds but I know it is in other breeds. The health risks vs benefits are being more carefully weighed. But, like I said in my last post I would be willing to do a vasectomy if it would make the rescue/breeder feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 A dog with a vasectomy is an altered dog, you understand that, right? If you have ever seen a dog with pyometra, you'd change your mind in a heartbeat, I promise you. Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytgrandma Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 If that's not even something you'd consider budging on, you'll likely be hard pressed to find ANY reputable breeder of greyhounds that will adopt to you. I know people with AKC hounds who were required to spay or neuter at 18 months - contractual obligation. You'll probably find plenty of shady people who'll adopt to you, but, you'll never actually know if you're getting a full-blooded greyhound or not because those people are generally the coyote dog breeders. An intact dog has higher risks for testicular/ovarian cancer, females can get pyometra, males have an increased risk for prostate cancer...how is that a health benefit in anyone's book? Pretty difficult to respect such a selfish choice when there's no good reason behind it. There are so many animals in the world that need homes, it's irresponsible to keep intact dogs for no reason, and doubly irresponsible to keep intact animals of opposite sexes. I don't care how well you sequester an animal when it's in heat...things happen. That's why there are sometimes oops litters of NGA puppies. well said Kristen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lindsey Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Pretty difficult to respect such a selfish choice when there's no good reason behind it. There are so many animals in the world that need homes, it's irresponsible to keep intact dogs for no reason, and doubly irresponsible to keep intact animals of opposite sexes. I don't care how well you sequester an animal when it's in heat...things happen. That's why there are sometimes oops litters of NGA puppies. And dogs sometimes jump a fence and get hit by a car. Things happen but I'm not going to preemptively cut my dogs tendons so he can't jump nor am I going to preemptively take organs out because one of my dogs might go into a silent heat, manage to get out of her crate, through two doors and a gate and into another crate. If I can't responsibly keep an intact dog from reproducing then I shouldn't own dogs period since. You may see no reason, that's fine, I'm not asking you to keep your dogs intact, buy from a breeder or anything else. Just maybe figure there are more views in this world and things aren't always "Right. Wrong." A dog with a vasectomy is an altered dog, you understand that, right? If you have ever seen a dog with pyometra, you'd change your mind in a heartbeat, I promise you. Yes, but still with the hormones, which is what I'm concerned about. A few years back when I called around about them I was met with a lot of vets that wouldn't do it so I had sorta forgotten about that option. I always enjoy that argument "If you've seen________ then you would change your mind!" It doesn't work on me, sorry. You don't know what I've seen or experienced nor do you know what would change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mbfilby Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Linsey, this board is specifically for discussing topics pertaining to retired racing greyhounds as pets. A great deal of the members here have spent years in retired racing greyhound welfare and adoption, and introducing the unknowing to the breed. You will not find too many here sympathetic to someone buying a greyhound from a breeder over adopting one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lindsey Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) Linsey, this board is specifically for discussing topics pertaining to retired racing greyhounds as pets. A great deal of the members here have spent years in retired racing greyhound welfare and adoption, and introducing the unknowing to the breed. You will not find too many here sympathetic to someone buying a greyhound from a breeder over adopting one. I'm seeing that, like I said I did not know there was a huge division between rescue and breeders in this breed. If I had known that I wouldn't have joined. Most people I'm used to support responsible breeders the same way responsible breeders support rescue, they work in harmony. Apparently that is not the case here. Most sighthound people I have known online and in person have been breeders or supportive of breeders and rescues. So, this has thrown me. Edited February 3, 2013 by Lindsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) Intact males are shown to be less prone to prostate cancer Umm...no: From http://www.petwave.com/dogs/dog-health-center/reproductive-disorders/prostate-cancer.aspx Unless a dog owner has firm plans to use this animal in a formal breeding program, the best prevention strategy for prostate problems is surgery (castration). NGA greyhounds can pretty much be considered an entirely different breed than AKC greyhounds that you can buy from breeders. There are very few AKC greyhounds bred each year, and NGA breedings are fairly highly regulated, with breedings and whelpings requiring reporting. So, if you want to get technical, us greyhound "rescue" people DO work with the breeders...they're just the NGA breeders, owners and trainers though, not AKC breeders. When dogs retire from racing, groups all over the country take them in and find them good pet homes. There are just so freaking many of them that need homes that us "rescue" people don't really condone the production of MORE of them to be sold directly when there are plenty already waiting for homes with adoption groups all over the country. Edited February 3, 2013 by krissn333 Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytgrandma Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) Linsey I think the biggest problem for you here is the intact dog. Responsible breeders will not pet out an unaltered dog. Edited February 3, 2013 by greytgrandma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lindsey Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Umm...no:From http://www.petwave.com/dogs/dog-health-center/reproductive-disorders/prostate-cancer.aspx Maybe I'm missing them but I'm not seeing any links to studies in any of those. But, again it's irrelevant. I'm not here to convince you to not alter your dogs and you aren't going to convince me to alter my dogs. We're at an impasse and it's one that I don't really have a desire to be at or argue. But that's ok, you all don't have to worry. I will take my leave and continue to do research via other means that aren't as extreme as this place. I hope you all have a great night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 :wave :wave :wave :wave :wave :wave :wave :wave Most truly yours, The crazy extremists Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mbfilby Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I'm seeing that, like I said I did not know there was a huge division between rescue and breeders in this breed. If I had known that I wouldn't have joined. Most people I'm used to support responsible breeders the same way responsible breeders support rescue, they work in harmony. Apparently that is not the case here. Most sighthound people I have known online and in person have been breeders or supportive of breeders and rescues. So, this has thrown me. Like I said, this board is specific to retired hounds, and by default, adoption. Retired racers due to their ancestry and common upbringing have like traits that are endearing and specific to the breed (NGA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trudy Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Wow. She came here looking for info. Could have just provided that info instead of jump on a new member that you don't agree with her on altering her dogs. Personally, I have no clue what my greyhounds were like with all their hormones. I do know what my doberman was like. I like his attitude better without it all The biggest reason for early spay/neutering is to reduce unwanted animals. With responsible people, I'm good with later altering, especially on large breed dogs. And while I have NO desire to own intact dogs, if somebody else does, what does it bother me. Yeah, there are lots of retired hounds out there for adoption. Lots of other dogs too. But if somebody knows what they want and are willing to hunt down a responsible breeder, by all means, go for it. When we get the next doberman, you can bet we will be looking at breeders. Adoption as well, but also breeders. But that's ok, just one more reason for the repo wagon to show up to our house. This is one of the treads where people should have gone with the "agree to disagree" bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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