Healing Amputated Toe

[Guest akawow]

We are on day 10 after the amputation. It's not been easy, but it finally was looking better....

 

I left her for about 45 min., sleeping, with the E collar on. Came back to find she'd licked it for what looks like the whole time. The edges are raw again... I despair. I've been w/ her 24/7 to avoid this, but there are things that just need done. What to do?? It's her right rear. I read someone suggest a muzzle, but she's really good at doing things w/ a muzzle on....

[greytpups]

A baby sock secured on her leg with some vet wrap might help or a Thera paw

[OwnedBySummer]

Muzzle with a poop guard might help (or duct tape on the end). Are you allowed to put a sock over it? If this is a hind foot, a ladies' trouser sock will come up over the hock, you can vet wrap just above the hock and then fold the top of the sock down over the vet wrap so she can't pick the vet wrap off. Same theory would probably work on a front leg, just not as well.

 

ETA: GEM sells both the Therapaw and some unique greyhound socks. I haven't tried the socks but I'll be getting some at The GEM Event in May. I'm sure they can FedEx to you for tomorrow's delivery, if you wanted anything. Socks & Therapaws

Edited March 29, 2012 by OwnedBySummer

[Guest akawow]

I was afraid to put anything on it- that it might stick to the again raw spots, or she would really go after it trying to get it off....

I guess I'm wondering if I actually have to stay in the same room w/ her 24/7 to get this to heal!??

[PrairieProf]

Muzzle with poop guard (or you can use duct tape over the end of the muzzle). Beth had a slow-healing toe amputation (some of the stitches ripped and there was a portion that had to heal by granulation) and she wore the muzzle 24/7 except when eating or being on leash for several weeks. The vet's office also used a long strip of gauze tied in the middle to the back of the head strap that we tied in a bow at her throat -- that way she couldn't rub the muzzle off when no one was looking.

 

Good luck. I aged several years while Beth was healing. Be aware that, unfortunately, if she licks there may be some areas where the hair doesn't grow back. Beth had her wrap rub a deep abrasion in the top of her knuckle, and there are the granulation areas, and both of those have stayed bare.

 

If there's a raw area you should probably be wrapping her foot when you go outside, or at the very least be putting a bag over it (or we used a Pawz rubber bootie). We had several weeks of hell with the foot left unwrapped so it could get air to granulate, then wrapped every time we went out to potty.

[Guest akawow]

Ok, I added a sock, hopefully it won't stick to the owwie. Also put on muzzle w/ poop guard. First thing she did was pop me behind the knees almost taking me down! She's feeling a little annoyed w/ me these days. I am concerned about the nubs holding the poop guard on doing damage. You can't put them on the inside can you? (don't wanna hurt that precious nose!)

[Guest akawow]

Looking at the Pawz- medium is under 60 lbs. She ranges between 55 - 60 lbs. Should I go to large or will they be too floppy?

[Guest carmasims]

OMGosh - muzzle and duct tape over where a poop guard would be was the ONLY thing that stopped our boy chevelle from licking his front paw after his middle toe amputation!! also, colloidal silver spray is your friend!

[PrairieProf]

The poop guard is smooth inside. The zip ties that hold it on have never bothered my dog's nose -- it really doesn't touch. It goes on the inside or outside of the muzzle depending on what size muzzle you have.

 

My girl fusses horribly with the muzzle at first, but once she was wearing it all the time she settled down about it. Hang tough.

 

The medium Pawz (blue right?) is the size for greyhounds. If you have a wrap on the foot, though, large is what I've used. (I used large all the time before I realized medium was best, and they were a little floppy but still work just fine).

[Guest akawow]

Thanks so much for your help guys!

 

So, we were initially told that this would not be painful after the first several days, which sounded too good to be true. This has not seemed to be the case. We were also told it'd be all healed and ready to run after 2 weeks. I don't see that happening either....how long has it taken your pups? Let's get real...

[Guest carmasims]

our boy ended up with an infection, so it took him a bit longer to heal with the swelling that pulled at the stitches... but, it seemed like once that cleared, he was hobbling around on it within 3 weeks or so.

 

So, we were initially told that this would not be painful after the first several days, which sounded too good to be true. This has not seemed to be the case. We were also told it'd be all healed and ready to run after 2 weeks. I don't see that happening either....how long has it taken your pups? Let's get real...

[KF_in_Georgia]

I am concerned about the nubs holding the poop guard on doing damage. You can't put them on the inside can you? (don't wanna hurt that precious nose!)

 

Silver's muzzle/guard combination had some rough places that irritated her nose. I folded part of a paper towel to a double thickness for a bit of padding, then duct-taped that over the bumps, smoothing the tape down thoroughly.

[PrairieProf]

Thanks so much for your help guys!

 

So, we were initially told that this would not be painful after the first several days, which sounded too good to be true. This has not seemed to be the case. We were also told it'd be all healed and ready to run after 2 weeks. I don't see that happening either....how long has it taken your pups? Let's get real...

 

Is this an outside toe amp or a middle (weight-bearing) toe amp? That makes a difference in healing.

 

I don't know that the (weight-bearing) amp caused Beth that much pain -- the wrap rubbing her knuckle was the worst part. She never really limped and three-footed only occasionally when she tried to speed up. Running in two weeks seems extremely optimistic/rushed though -- you really want the area to heal up solidly, not just have the suture line closed. Think about the intense stress greyhound running puts on their feet. Beth had her toe amp just before Memorial Day last year, we had the setbacks in healing through June, and I think she was cleared for longer walks early in July. But I waited until late August to let her off leash (OK, admittedly I was nervous, and a couple of weeks we were visiting family but there seemed nothing to gain by rushing it). Might be different with an outside toe removal.

 

From reading everything I could find here and across the web about toe amputation and healing back then, I can say that there's a lot of variability dog to dog; your grey's experience might not match anyone else's. But be patient, you'll get there -- and I truly know it's hellish now. And you're following up regularly for checks by your vet, right?

 

(P.S. if you happen to be on Facebook, there is actually a group for Three-Toed Greyhounds you can join!)

Edited March 30, 2012 by PrairieProf

[Charlies_Dad]

It does take a bit of time for the paw to truly heal and your pup to get used to it. It took our Jack several weeks to stop limping on it and now he is fine.

[Guest akawow]

It is the right rear #4 toe, so the one amputated was the second one from the outside. We now have a big red, swollen, super turkeyfoot;)

We went back to OSU today,after a sleepless night, (so grateful they would take time between surgeries to consult again), and at least have a better collection of drugs that hopefully will control her pain better and allow us both a little sleep tonight. I'm soooo tired. We also were initially given an e cone that was too short- not past her nose far enough, which allowed her to chew the foot. I think the new cone will be helpful, but unfortunately we had a horrible first trial w/ it- she went into the crate and totally freaked when it hit the side of the crate- it was truly awful.

We still have no explanation for the increased pain, several surgeons said it looked good, so we'll call it enough for a day.

PrairieProf, do you have any particularly good reading sites for this? I've not had much time to spend online.

Thanks for all you guys!

One more question- at what point is it worth the risk to leave the dog unsupervised? I've been pretty much tethered to her for 11 days. Trying to gut it out, but getting a bit stir crazy w/ so much undone work.

[PrairieProf]

No, I just googled every trace of forum discussion I could find here and on the web -- there are no sites per se. Really other folks here were the most help to me (so I'm trying to pay it forward).

 

Beth was pretty calm with her muzzle in the crate (she was on crate rest for several weeks after the stitches ripped), but I took to day-boarding her at the vet for several weeks because I was pretty stressed out, also didn't want to leave her for more than brief periods, and it was helpful to have the techs look after her for eight hours a day. She loves being at the vet and it's five minutes from my house so that made it easy. But maybe it might be an option for you? (I got so exhausted and stressed when things were at their worst my wonderful vet had one of the techs take Beth home with her for the whole weekend, because he could see I was on the verge of having a breakdown after my own sleepless night -- I will always be grateful for that!)

 

A muzzle with stool guard might be MUCH more tolerable to your girl than an e-cone. After seeing how quickly Beth stopped fussing and was fine with the muzzle for extended periods I will never use anything else to prevent her licking (we've never used a cone, my understanding is that greyhounds tend not to do well with them, but we've used a Bite-Not collar). This is muzzled Beth during her crate rest period -- taking it well as you can see! http://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s357/PrairieProf/downsized_0611011338.jpg

 

Here's Beth's healed turkeyfoot with the hairless area where the bandage rubbed. Her remaining knuckle has gotten enlarged with calcification -- not too pretty. The vet said it helps stabilize the toe though. But she doesn't limp and she runs and all on it. http://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s357/PrairieProf/downsized_0827011738a.jpg

 

Here is the long-ass saga of Beth's amputation and recovery from last spring, if you want to read the gory details of someone else's experience: http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/272208-deep-ulcer-between-beths-toes/

 

Just curious, what happened to your hound that you needed to do the amputation?

Edited March 31, 2012 by PrairieProf

[Guest akawow]

Mermie started out w/ a swelling on the toe back in mid Feb. She wasn't really lame, but it got to be about twice the normal size. Xrays showed a large area of new bone growth around it. Our local vets thought it must be osteo, and advised us of the steep decline we would see soon. We prepped to amputate then, but Xrays that morning appeared to show some fuzzy spots on the lungs. As we had decided we did not want to treat aggressively(chemo etc.), we were advised that it would be so quick it would not be worth the pain of amputation.

 

Several weeks went by. The toe stayed about the same. We spoiled her rotten of course. She actually began to perk up. When setting up a blood donation appt. for our other grey, they asked how Merm was doing (she was a donor when younger). They encouraged me to bring her in. I did the online consult form, which interested Dr. Couto, as it looked like osteo, but that's not usually seen in toes. We took her in and they were kind enough to discount the price of some more diagnostics..more xrays and fnas. The fna produced, from w/in the bone- synovial fluid. Yeah, go figure- that does not belong there.

In short,w/ additional views, they did not think it had metastasized and recommended the amputation. They are still stymied on the diagnosis as the toe biopsy did not show cancer cells. So, yay! no cancer, but best guess now is some kind of auto immune reaction...still being discussed.

 

I got a full night's sleep for the first time since amp! Wow, that helps. The new meds are allowing her much more comfort, which slows down the attempts to chew the foot, so if I'm in the room she can be muzzle/cone free. Maybe I had not said before, but she was using the muzzle to assault the foot yesterday- which is why the cone. The first cone, which was too short, she adapted to amazingly well. I have not tried the new one since the freakout.

 

Beth's foot looks amazingly normal. This is what I've been telling myself it will eventually look like, so thanks for the visual confirmation. I'm really not concerned about how the end result- it just seems a long road to get there.

[PrairieProf]

Glad there's no sign of cancer -- I knew the toe is an incredibly unlikely spot for osteo.

 

Do you think that with the new pain meds she'd leave the toe alone with the muzzle? It must be really bothering her, not just that dog temptation to lick. At any rate, I'm glad things are going a bit better.

 

Beth did big long zoomies this morning at the dog park, and I thought of how far she's come and thought of you. Mermie is a cute name -- hope you'll post some pics of her!

 

Oh FYI she had a round lump of swelling on her foot right above the amp site for several months, but it eventually went away.

Edited March 31, 2012 by PrairieProf

[Guest akawow]

yes, but the new bone growth is totally unexplained, not to mention syn fluid in the bone...did they ever do an FNA on Beth's lump? I'm making my way thru your experience a minute at a time as I have to leave the room M's in to do it. If I'm in the room and watching the muzzle is off. The drugs are allowing that, and comfort for her, finally, but I'm afraid to really leave the room more than a few minutes at a time. (that's frustrating, so much to do!)

 

Sorry, but haven't figured out how to post pic yet.

[PrairieProf]

Not sure which lump you mean ... her toe amputation was the result of completely tearing a ligament in the toe when her foot slipped on some wet grass clippings when she was running. Oh, do you mean the lump on her remaining knuckle? I've had the vet inspect it many times and there's never been the slightest suggestion that there could be cancer. It's just enlargement due to the extra stress placed on that toe since the amputation. So I guess since there's an obvious explanation there's no need to investigate it further. It's pretty common for greyhounds who've had toe injuries to develop enlarged/knobby toes, I think.

 

To post a picture, you need to have it uploaded in a photo hosting site like Photobucket. Then you post the IMG code from the picture on the site into your message here (I posted direct links in my earlier message since I didn't want to threadjack with photos of a dog other than yours). There's a pinned thread with more guidance in the Technical section.

Edited March 31, 2012 by PrairieProf

[Guest akawow]

To add to our little drama, last night I finally finished making dinner and dog dinner when....my husband, who has had vein problems in his legs,and was about to jump through the shower, says "hey". I turn to see him in the doorway, buck naked of course, w/ blood spraying in nice regular 3' arc from his calf. Yikes. Okay, apply pressure and talk him into calling the pcp on call (since he won't just go to the hospital). Long story short, after it starts up again, I pack everyone into the car w/ supplies for who knows how long, and drive to the ER. Merm is freshly dosed w/ Tramadol and Xanax and muzzle and I'm hoping...to no avail. I come out to check on them (we have another grey who, sadly, is a real carophobe) in the car. She is going at the foot w/ the muzzle for all she's worth. I run back to tell them I can't come back in...and spend a good while in the steamy car.

 

Happily,some stitches in place, his problem is at least temporarily solved, and once home, Mermie conks out. It is late, he has to get up to work @ 5 am, and so- my chance of a shower is gone. Damn.

However, the foot seems a bit less swollen.There's some broken skin on the outer side of the toe, from the parking lot incident, which I guess could be worse. She is however, doing a 3 legged hop (which we've not really seen before) in the yard when I take her out. I hope for a good night's rest for all, but she is up frequently circling the room thru the night.. and I thought I might get to escape and get groceries this weekend!

 

Tell me this will stop?! Oh, and she's barely eating, which concerns me w/ all the meds in her tummy. She has been ravenous up til now.

We go back to the local vet tomorrow to get the stitches/staples out.

[PrairieProf]

Oy, what a nightmare! I'm so sorry. Not sure what to advise, except it seems surprising the foot isn't wrapped, especially when you go out -- seems like it could use some protection from the elements and her tongue. It's going to be even more vulnerable with the stitches out, won't it? (Even though Beth had to have her foot exposed to air when she was in the crate, she had it wrapped in cast padding and Vetwrap covered with a Pawz boot every single time we went out until it was solidly healed.)

 

Maybe you can ask your local vet tomorrow about day-boarding in the hospital so you can get a break? I don't know how I would have managed without some help that way, getting to hand Beth off to professionals who weren't all stressed out.

[Guest akawow]

OSU told me to keep a sock on it w/ vetwrap, which i do. Then it is covered w/ Medipaw boot when going out. But you can't leave that on as it's waterproof and would steam up- so I take it off in the car. That seems to be working- keeping it dry and "aired", but there's no protection. That's where they said to use the new cone, but things have been so difficult I haven't ventured to try it out in a large space. I think the drugs must also affect her judgements w/ the cone making it doubly difficult. So, I'm just watching...using the muzzle when she's set on bothering it + night. I was thinking this morning that it's almost more constraining for me than a baby!

Don't think boarding is in our cards. Just the vet bills and meds are enough! Also, our vet doesn't have anyone there through the night-duh!

[PrairieProf]

Well I just day-boarded during the hours they were open in the medical area, where there were constantly people around to keep an eye on her ... that isn't really expensive as I recall (actually I don't think they charged me at all, but my vet is awesome and they in effect wrote it off as included post-surgical care). But anyway it gave me time from 8 to 5 or whatever where I didn't have to be the one watching her. Even doing it for a day would give you time to go shopping, rest, etc.

[Guest akawow]

I'm still reading about Beth, so which toes are the wt.bearing ones?