Raw Feeding - Trace Protein In Urine?

[Guest k85trb]

I started feeding Diesel raw in August, he's been doing great. Relieved to have finally found an answer to his bowel troubles, his fur is softer, he's definitely brighter, and more playful. On Wednesday, I took him for his annual urinalysis. This time he showed trace proteins in his urine, specific gravity was 1.041. Could the proteins be from the raw feeding?

 

We do an annual urine test to check his kidney function because he had horrible lyme disease (titres were 1:2560) when I got him, my vet said that long term lyme disease can cause kidney damage. He's been treated for lyme disease and babesia.

 

Any insights?

 

Tina & Diesel

[Batmom]

Proteinuria is always abnormal. That said, I wouldn't panic about a trace in a highly concentrated sample. Might be worth repeating the dipstick test and/or running a microalbumin test (also a urine test).

[tbhounds]

Proteinuria is always abnormal. That said, I wouldn't panic about a trace in a highly concentrated sample. Might be worth repeating the dipstick test and/or running a microalbumin test (also a urine test).

Yup--agree. If the USG was dilute I would be more concerned it is however, something to monitor as our greyhounds tend to have a condition called glomerularnephitis.

I learned from Dr at Ohio State that all too often protein in the urine is not taken seriously enough--she told me no protein should be seen. It's even more of a concern in greyhound as they like to throw clots. When your dog had proteinuria he is also losing antithrombin 3 (which is an anticlotting factor)--making them even more prone to a thrombus event.

Back to your original question--no I don't think the proteinuria is from the diet. I would stay on top of this--should you see in increase a urine culture will be recommened as well as a UPC test.

[Guest Swifthounds]

What they said. . And there's nothing about a raw diet that would cause it.

[MaryJane]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that a higher protein/phosphorous diet which is usually found in raw diets (and high protein commercial diets) could cause protein to spill over into the urine but, there would likely be another issue going on which is causing the kidneys not to be able to handle the protein.

 

I agree that the urine needs to get checked again.

[Batmom]

You wouldn't see protein in the urine from the diet unless there was an underlying pathology (usually malfunctioning kidneys). With high protein diets you might see a mild increase in BUN/creatinine, which is no cause for alarm, but you shouldn't see protein in the urine. Again, tho, "trace" in a highly concentrated sample like this one was isn't usually cause for panic; retest when you're sure the dog is well hydrated and go from there.

[Guest k85trb]

Thanks for all your help!

 

tbhounds - Diesel has vWD - a mild form of haemophilia, so I hope his risk of clotting is less than most if it is glomerularnephritis.

 

Thinking back, I remember from his ultrasound that the vet mentioned he had a thickened bladder wall - (the ultrasound was attempting to find the cause of his bowel troubles) I wonder if he has bladder inflammation? I will call the vet and see what she thinks.

 

Thanks again!

Tina & Diesel

[Guest Swifthounds]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that a higher protein/phosphorous diet which is usually found in raw diets (and high protein commercial diets) could cause protein to spill over into the urine

 

Raw diets average around 23-26% protein, thus aren't "higher protein" than the majority of commercial diets. Mostly meat doesn't equal more protein. In fact, if you read the label, most of the "extra" protein in the higher protein commercial foods is from non meat sources. Most of them have no more meat in them than the much maligned Iams foods.

 

You can notice higher BUNs in raw fed dogs, but usually not higher creatinine except in older dogs (at least not above "greyhound" normal). You want to see something really crazy? Put a raw fed dog on a commercial diet for a few weeks and watch the kidney values go up.

[MaryJane]

I think what might be deceiving is that you want to be know how much "total protein" your dog is getting daily and not the "percentage of the food that is protein". If a dog does not have kidney issues then you don't need to watch the protein intake but, if there are kidney issues then the conventional procedure is to limit protein/phosphorous and to make sure the protein is a good protein.

 

So for example -- a 4oz portion of ground turkey has 22 grams of protein. One of those ground turkey packages has 20oz so a total of 110 grams of protein. Larry's (my greyhound with minor kidney issues) intake of meat protein per day is about 5 to 6 oz total - so less than 30 grams of meat protein daily. He also gets rice and oatmeal which adds to the protein intake but not as much as the meat does.

 

So, if someone is on a raw diet isn't there a formula of how many pounds of meat a dog requires per day based on their weight. And, according to my calculations, a pound of meat is going to be about 90 grams of protein.

 

A previous dog of mine had what turned out to be an acute kidney issue and I monitored his urine every day with a dipstick to see how much protein was showing up in the urine and adjusting his protein intake based on that. It turned out that to keep protein from showing up in his urine I had to limit his meat protein intake to less than 8oz a day (while he was going through this acute issue). After a few months on the diet we rechecked blood values and I was able to start increasing the protein levels but, our conclusions were that the decreased levels of protein are what allowed him to get through the acute issue because it lowered the amount of work the kidneys had to do.

[Guest k85trb]

So a recheck today found the same trace protein, really concentrated urine 1.047. Diesel's just not drinking, his water bowl was still full when I got home from work. I find he drinks more in the summer and hardly anything when it's cold. The vet recommended another check in 6 months.

 

Tina & Diesel

[Guest Cris_M]

So a recheck today found the same trace protein, really concentrated urine 1.047. Diesel's just not drinking, his water bowl was still full when I got home from work. I find he drinks more in the summer and hardly anything when it's cold. The vet recommended another check in 6 months.

 

Tina & Diesel

 

None of my raw fed dogs drink very much, and their urine is very concentrated. From my experience, that is normal for a raw fed dog.

[Batmom]

It isn't normal for urine SG to be much over 1.030 - 1.035, regardless of what the dog eats. Might be worth collecting some urine at different times during the day and having your vet run just a quick specific gravity check on those samples.

 

Edited because I'm wrong! See jjng's note below.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Batmom

[MaryJane]

Do you feed dry food - it might be worth using some canned food or putting water into the food to see if it changes the values of the specific gravity.

[JJNg]

It isn't normal for urine SG to be much over 1.030 - 1.035, regardless of what the dog eats.

Actually, it's pretty normal for concentrated urine in dogs to be between 1.040-1.050. Maybe you're thinking of human numbers? People can't concentrate their urine as well as dogs can. And cats are even higher than dogs. Here's a good article on urine specific gravity.

 

The last 2 greys I did UAs on had USGs of 1.051 and 1.054 - both healthy dogs that were getting routine screens. Concentrated urine means the kidneys are functioning well. Although it wouldn't be a bad idea to try to encourage water intake, I wouldn't worry about it too much in a healthy dog. In a sick dog, extremely concentrated urine would be a concern because of dehydration and low blood pressure.

[Batmom]

Aaaaaaaah, thanks for the article! I *haven't* seen one that high on a regular basis so that is good to know.

[Guest k85trb]

a good article on urine specific gravity.

 

The last 2 greys I did UAs on had USGs of 1.051 and 1.054 - both healthy dogs that were getting routine screens. Concentrated urine means the kidneys are functioning well. Although it wouldn't be a bad idea to try to encourage water intake, I wouldn't worry about it too much in a healthy dog. In a sick dog, extremely concentrated urine would be a concern because of dehydration and low blood pressure.

 

Thanks for the article! It was informative and had good links to more kidney info

 

Tina & Diesel

[Burpdog]

Your vet needs to be aware that he is on a raw diet as some of the blood test results are different in raw fed dogs.

 

I wouldn't worry about a little protein

[tbhounds]

Your vet needs to be aware that he is on a raw diet as some of the blood test results are different in raw fed dogs.

 

I wouldn't worry about a little protein

Sorry to disagree about not to be concerned about "a little protein". Proteinuria is not something to be placed on the backburner.

[MaryJane]

I'm also of the mind that there should not be any protein in a dog's urine. If protein is leaking through the filtering mechanism in the kidneys then there is a chance that is going to cause additional damage to the filtering mechanism and in turn allow even more protein to "escape".

 

Since there is a history of a disease that can cause kidney damage I would probably be monitoring the protein more closely and if it continues maybe even reconsider the "amount of meat/phosphorous" that is fed until there is no protein in the urine.

[JJNg]

A small amount (trace or 1+) of protein detected in a very concentrated urine sample is often not significant. Has nothing to do with a raw diet, though. It may be a false positive caused by the high specific gravity. This can be confirmed by running a urine protein:creatinine ratio, which usually comes back normal. I don't worry about this finding too much unless there are other signs (clinical signs, elevated kidney levels on bloodwork, high blood pressure, etc) present that would indicate the need for further workup or treatment. Otherwise, I would just follow up with periodic UAs and continue to monitor the USG and protein.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Since there is a history of a disease that can cause kidney damage I would probably be monitoring the protein more closely and if it continues maybe even reconsider the "amount of meat/phosphorous" that is fed until there is no protein in the urine.

 

Not the amount of meat, but perhaps the form/source to ease the load on the kidneys.