Please Help With Diesel's Diagnosis

[Guest Dl7265]

Update, after a few months on the supplements, his levels have improved %50. So he will be staying on them.

 

Another more concerning issue, is he began loosing stability in his left hind leg, and he's draging the hind legs. The Vet said she can do a x ray to narrow down if it's skeletal or neurological. I read about the the Degenerative Myelopathy, and it dosen't sound good. My boy turns 12 on Dec 1st.

 

DL

[Texasgreys]

Update, after a few months on the supplements, his levels have improved %50. So he will be staying on them.

 

Another more concerning issue, is he began loosing stability in his left hind leg, and he's draging the hind legs. The Vet said she can do a x ray to narrow down if it's skeletal or neurological. I read about the the Degenerative Myelopathy, and it dosen't sound good. My boy turns 12 on Dec 1st.

 

DL

Glad the supplements are helping him. I'm sad to hear that he's losing stability - you might want to take him to an acupuncture/chiropractic vet. There are several in DFW; my dogs have seen Dr. Karen Ave (now practicing in Carrollton) and Dr. Paul Bruton (in Southlake). They are both wonderful.

[Guest FreddyGirl]

I am taking my 2nd senior grey with compressed discs, etc for accupuncture. It is making a WORLD of difference for Tommy. He still knuckles, but not that often anymore.

[greyhead]

Spencer turns 11 this Friday and has been getting acupuncture/chiropractic treatments monthly for three years, for lumbosacral stenosis. He was knuckling, falling down if he tried to pivot on his bad back legs, and falling sideways when lifting a leg to pee. Last week the Dr. Stack test for LS was repeated, and he didn't sink in his back end at all! (I hadn't realized it until now, when I quizzed the docs about it, but that treatment can largely alleviate the condition, not just the discomfort!) Now we also x-rayed his spine and found a lot of arthritis in the verterbrae and a disk problem midway down the spine, though it still is being reviewed by a radiologist. We've had great results with Adequan for our other grey's arthritis, when oral glucosamine didn't do anything. His acupuncturist seemed to indicate that there's not much to do for his disk that doesn't involve surgery, which we're not putting him through at this age (and with all his other health problems). But we still need to see what the radiologist says the problem is exactly.

 

I hope you can get a good diagnosis and treatment plan for Diesel. You should have a good sling to help him if he gets into trouble. If you need sources for slings, we can help you with that.

 

Edited to correct typo above!

Edited November 26, 2011 by greyhead

[Guest Dl7265]

Glad the supplements are helping him. I'm sad to hear that he's losing stability - you might want to take him to an acupuncture/chiropractic vet. There are several in DFW; my dogs have seen Dr. Karen Ave (now practicing in Carrollton) and Dr. Paul Bruton (in Southlake). They are both wonderful.

Thanks I'll look into it. And report back after the back x rays. He turned 12 last Thursday, Had a pretty good day overall. He's on the G/D prescription food now, We'll see how that goes.

 

 

DL

[Guest Dl7265]

The xrays were negative of any arthritis or disk. The assumption is he has a neurological problem. Degenerative Myelopathy,In addition he has renal failure . he is getting along normal, other then increased unrination, and ocassional wobble in his hinds.

They checked his blood pressure since he is on the benezapril and it was good, in the normal range.

 

Diesel's daddy

[Guest verthib]

Thanks for the welcome and all the comments.

 

They did do a urine sediment, chemistry, and specific gravity. Thyroid 4 panel was T4,ft4,cTSH and a protein creatinine ratio. Soon as I get the lab results, I will post them.

 

He has more bounce in his step today, and seems to be feeling better. 4th day on the zeniquin. I return to work today so we will see how he does.

 

11 year old dog?

 

7 hours in a crate?

 

Ay Caramba !

 

Good Grief !

 

 

Diesel dog has always loved his crate. That's a short amount of time for him. I have a job to go to , there's not much choice.

 

You mentioned your typical day is 11 hours that he is normally is ok with. Could you gate him? That's a LONG time in the crate every day. Poor guy.

[Guest verthib]

 

Since is he getting older, you might consider a potty break for him during the day. Especially if he does have a kidney issue. Does he do well alone in the house? Is it possible to leave the crate latched open so he can enjoy his crate but get out & tinkle if he has to go?

 

Good suggestions.

[kudzu]

The xrays were negative of any arthritis or disk. The assumption is he has a neurological problem. Degenerative Myelopathy,In addition he has renal failure . he is getting along normal, other then increased unrination, and ocassional wobble in his hinds.

They checked his blood pressure since he is on the benezapril and it was good, in the normal range.

 

Diesel's daddy

Degenerative myelopathy is most uncommon & IMO not likely to be the cause. It can only be truly diagnosed by special examination of the spinal cord. Since that can only be done on necropsy, diagnosis of a living dog is done through process of elimination. There are many other things that can cause very similar problems. Many neurological problems related to the spine cannot be diagnosed through xray & would require other tests such as MRI, myelogram or CT with contrast. A neurologist might also suggest EMG/NCV to check for nerve damage. EMG/NCV can be used to help diagnose neuropathies or muscle diseases. Unless you are running those diagnostics you will not being to make a presumptive diagnosis of DM. In fact, the odds would be much greater for a dog to have a neuropathy than DM.

 

I mention neuropathies because the kidneys have a strong effect on the neurological systems. There is a type of neuropathy that develops with renal failure. It may well be that your dog does have a neurological disease but one other than DM. Kidney function can also greatly effect parathyroid function which can also contribute to a different neuropathy. And there is a type of neuropathy associated with hypothyroidism.

 

As someone who has already been down this road with a dog who had both chronic kidney disease & a motor neuron disease I would like to make a few suggestions that could help your dog feel better & perhaps at least slow down progression of his disorders. Here are things recommended in various sources for problems similar to what you have described. All of these were recommended by my dogs vets. Most of these are good for kidneys & nervous system.

- Omega 3 fish oil; try to find one with the highest concentration of EPA/DHA you can manage.

- B12 injections; the best thing I did for my dog & I administered them subq at home so it was dirt cheap.

- CoQ10; suggested by both GP vet & neurologist.

- L-carnitine; suggested by neurologist for use in combo with CoQ10. He said it might help & wouldn't hurt. Didn't seem to help my guy but the CoQ10 did.

- acetyl L-carnitine; suggested by human neurologist & approved by GP & neuro vets. Used in place of L-carnitine. Appeared to help over long term.

- ALA; alpha lipoic acid was suggested by GP vet.

- B-complex; oral version is fine but I used injectible. Suggested by GP vet.

- Vit E; suggested by GP vet.

 

Most of the above have at lease some scientific evidence of helping with kidney disease & some neurodegenerative diseases. If you do nothing else, please consider the Omega 3 fish oil, B12 & CoQ10. People's suggestions of accupuncture are very good. Please give it consideration.

 

Wishing your pup & you all the best. It's a rough road & I wish you were not on it.

[kudzu]

 

Since is he getting older, you might consider a potty break for him during the day. Especially if he does have a kidney issue. Does he do well alone in the house? Is it possible to leave the crate latched open so he can enjoy his crate but get out & tinkle if he has to go?

 

Good suggestions.

I'll third this one. I am not against crating. (You should see my dining right now with 3 crates lined up in it.) However, extended periods in such a confined space is doing his neuromuscular system no favors at all. Nor is such a long period the best situation for failing kidneys. Even if you could do something like attach an x-pen around the entrance to the crate to give him a place to move a little if he needs it that would be better than just the crate. And if getting someone to come by to give him a potty break every day isn't possible could you perhaps manage 2-3 days a week instead? May not sound like much but it made a big difference for my guy. Many of the same neuromuscular problems that cause hind end problems can also effect bladder function. And if urine backs up in the bladder it can cause further damage to the kidneys. More frequent relief breaks can make your dog more comfortable & be healthier.

 

Like I said before, I know it is hard. Just trying to offer some ideas based on personal experience. Hope you can find something helpful.

[MP_the4pack]

I work long days too.

 

If you have a fenced yard, is a dog door an option for you?

 

I had a little old lady who made it to 15.5. But she pretty much had to go every 4 hrs. No way could I have made it without the dog door.

[Guest Dl7265]

Due to the hours work I could not find anyone to come let him out,paid or otherwise. We are just using the puppy pads. Like most hounds he has seperation anxiety, I cannot imagine not crating, he would hurt himself and destroy the home. As mentioned he stays in his crate even when I'm home. He is comfortable there. He has the large crate, he can stand and turn around pretty easily.

 

The vet mentioned that is the two previous specific gravity he was not diluted, but was this last week when he was boarded and in for the x rays. I am to do a free catch after he has been with held from water.

 

In regards to his hinds and neurological disease, the xray at least rule out a disk or artridic condition, in fact she said his spine looked great especially for a 12 year old dog. She did say that a compession test on his lower spine showed some discomfort. I was given a LOW dose( due to the renal failure) of gabapentin to see if it helps.

 

DL

[Guest verthib]

Due to the hours work I could not find anyone to come let him out,paid or otherwise. We are just using the puppy pads. Like most hounds he has seperation anxiety, I cannot imagine not crating, he would hurt himself and destroy the home. As mentioned he stays in his crate even when I'm home. He is comfortable there. He has the large crate, he can stand and turn around pretty easily.

 

The vet mentioned that is the two previous specific gravity he was not diluted, but was this last week when he was boarded and in for the x rays. I am to do a free catch after he has been with held from water.

 

In regards to his hinds and neurological disease, the xray at least rule out a disk or artridic condition, in fact she said his spine looked great especially for a 12 year old dog. She did say that a compession test on his lower spine showed some discomfort. I was given a LOW dose( due to the renal failure) of gabapentin to see if it helps.

 

DL

 

I hope I'm not alone in thinking its very worrisome that you crate your dog while you're home AND while you're gone. When does he get to walk around the house, stretch his limbs, use his muscles, lay on a soft squishy bed or couch? My heart actually hurts for this dog. Why is he crated while you're home?

[kudzu]

I hope I'm not alone in thinking its very worrisome that you crate your dog while you're home AND while you're gone. When does he get to walk around the house, stretch his limbs, use his muscles, lay on a soft squishy bed or couch? My heart actually hurts for this dog. Why is he crated while you're home?

I must have must something. I didn't see anything saying the dog is closed in a crate when they are home.

[Guest verthib]

I hope I'm not alone in thinking its very worrisome that you crate your dog while you're home AND while you're gone. When does he get to walk around the house, stretch his limbs, use his muscles, lay on a soft squishy bed or couch? My heart actually hurts for this dog. Why is he crated while you're home?

I must have must something. I didn't see anything saying the dog is closed in a crate when they are home.

 

Read my previous post where I quoted his post. His first paragraph. He said the dog 'is even in the crate when I'm home'. For an old guy to be in a crate for a really long work day and also stay in the crate when the owner is home makes me sad, and it brings to mind a prior thread about greys not being 'cage' animals. I myself use crates for my two, so I'm not anti-crating. I think what he's doing is just excessive, especially with an old dog who has kidney/bladder issues and possibly joint issues. ;(

[kudzu]

Read my previous post where I quoted his post. His first paragraph. He said the dog 'is even in the crate when I'm home'. For an old guy to be in a crate for a really long work day and also stay in the crate when the owner is home makes me sad, and it brings to mind a prior thread about greys not being 'cage' animals. I myself use crates for my two, so I'm not anti-crating. I think what he's doing is just excessive, especially with an old dog who has kidney/bladder issues and possibly joint issues. ;(

I did read his post & reread it in quoted form within your post. Am still not seeing anything to indicate the dog is locked in a crate when they are home. Of course I still may be missing something but from the OPs phrasing it seems to leave open the possibility of the door being opened or closed. One of mine spends most of his indoor hours in a crate.

[Guest verthib]

Read my previous post where I quoted his post. His first paragraph. He said the dog 'is even in the crate when I'm home'. For an old guy to be in a crate for a really long work day and also stay in the crate when the owner is home makes me sad, and it brings to mind a prior thread about greys not being 'cage' animals. I myself use crates for my two, so I'm not anti-crating. I think what he's doing is just excessive, especially with an old dog who has kidney/bladder issues and possibly joint issues. ;(

I did read his post & reread it in quoted form within your post. Am still not seeing anything to indicate the dog is locked in a crate when they are home. Of course I still may be missing something but from the OPs phrasing it seems to leave open the possibility of the door being opened or closed. One of mine spends most of his indoor hours in a crate.

 

 

He has already acknowledged the dog is in the crate for 11-12 hours a day while he works....which is long for an old dog, but here is his quote regarding the dog being in the crate while he's home as well:

"Due to the hours work I could not find anyone to come let him out,paid or otherwise. We are just using the puppy pads. Like most hounds he has seperation anxiety, I cannot imagine not crating, he would hurt himself and destroy the home. As mentioned he stays in his crate even when I'm home. He is comfortable there. He has the large crate, he can stand and turn around pretty easily."

In my opinion even if the dog can stand up and turn around, it's not the same as being out and about in the home being able to walk and stretch, etc. Also, "most hounds" do not have separation anxiety. It may just be my opinion, but oh well.... I still stand by it.

[Guest Dl7265]

Due to the hours work I could not find anyone to come let him out,paid or otherwise. We are just using the puppy pads. Like most hounds he has seperation anxiety, I cannot imagine not crating, he would hurt himself and destroy the home. As mentioned he stays in his crate even when I'm home. He is comfortable there. He has the large crate, he can stand and turn around pretty easily.

 

The vet mentioned that is the two previous specific gravity he was not diluted, but was this last week when he was boarded and in for the x rays. I am to do a free catch after he has been with held from water.

 

In regards to his hinds and neurological disease, the xray at least rule out a disk or artridic condition, in fact she said his spine looked great especially for a 12 year old dog. She did say that a compession test on his lower spine showed some discomfort. I was given a LOW dose( due to the renal failure) of gabapentin to see if it helps.

 

DL

 

I hope I'm not alone in thinking its very worrisome that you crate your dog while you're home AND while you're gone. When does he get to walk around the house, stretch his limbs, use his muscles, lay on a soft squishy bed or couch? My heart actually hurts for this dog. Why is he crated while you're home?

 

 

I said He stay's in his crate,DOOR OPEN, it's HIS choice where he lays, His crate has 3" Memory foam in it by the way. My dog is very well loved and cared for. Thanks for the judgmental attitudes. I believe I am done posting in this forum.

Take care,

DL

[kudzu]

He has already acknowledged the dog is in the crate for 11-12 hours a day while he works....which is long for an old dog, but here is his quote regarding the dog being in the crate while he's home as well:

"Due to the hours work I could not find anyone to come let him out,paid or otherwise. We are just using the puppy pads. Like most hounds he has seperation anxiety, I cannot imagine not crating, he would hurt himself and destroy the home. As mentioned he stays in his crate even when I'm home. He is comfortable there. He has the large crate, he can stand and turn around pretty easily."

In my opinion even if the dog can stand up and turn around, it's not the same as being out and about in the home being able to walk and stretch, etc. Also, "most hounds" do not have separation anxiety. It may just be my opinion, but oh well.... I still stand by it.

The portion you put in bold is the section I was referring to. I too have one who spends most of the day in his crate when I am home. But saying that does not tell you whether the door is closed or open. I'll just leave it up to the imagination.

[Guest Dl7265]

"most hounds" do not have separation anxiety. It may just be my opinion, but oh well.... I still stand by it".

 

WOW you obviously know nothing about sight hounds, and especially my dog.You can criticize someone else now. Congratulations.

 

Diesel I appreciate the warm thoughts and suggestions from everyone else.

 

Goodbye,

[Guest verthib]

Due to the hours work I could not find anyone to come let him out,paid or otherwise. We are just using the puppy pads. Like most hounds he has seperation anxiety, I cannot imagine not crating, he would hurt himself and destroy the home. As mentioned he stays in his crate even when I'm home. He is comfortable there. He has the large crate, he can stand and turn around pretty easily.

 

The vet mentioned that is the two previous specific gravity he was not diluted, but was this last week when he was boarded and in for the x rays. I am to do a free catch after he has been with held from water.

 

In regards to his hinds and neurological disease, the xray at least rule out a disk or artridic condition, in fact she said his spine looked great especially for a 12 year old dog. She did say that a compession test on his lower spine showed some discomfort. I was given a LOW dose( due to the renal failure) of gabapentin to see if it helps.

 

DL

 

I hope I'm not alone in thinking its very worrisome that you crate your dog while you're home AND while you're gone. When does he get to walk around the house, stretch his limbs, use his muscles, lay on a soft squishy bed or couch? My heart actually hurts for this dog. Why is he crated while you're home?

 

 

I said He stay's in his crate,DOOR OPEN, it's HIS choice where he lays, His crate has 3" Memory foam in it by the way. My dog is very well loved and cared for. Thanks for the judgmental attitudes. I believe I am done posting in this forum.

Take care,

DL

 

I did not see the part that said the door open, I apologize. I wasn't being judgemental at all and I'm sorry if it came across the way. For the record I wasn't the only one who thought that was a long day to have him in the crate while you work and we gave you other options/suggestions. I was simply stating my feelings/opinions, which in this forum if you post, you open yourself up to others' feelings and opinions. Trust me, I've posted my share of things and have received feedback which I was not prepared for, but it's all part of life on GreyTalk. What most folks do is "listen" to what they feel is of benefit to them, and ignore the rest.

[sweetdogs]

 

Diesel I appreciate the warm thoughts and suggestions from everyone else.

 

Goodbye,

Don't go. Just ignore what's not useful.

 

Is it possible Diesel has lumbosacral stenosis rather than DM? LS is very common in older hounds.

 

And kidney disease can be greatly helped by a number of things, diet & supplements among them. I see they've already been discussed but sometimes it takes a while to find the right combo. Best wishes for your boy. And don't go.

 

 

[greyhead]

Diesel I appreciate the warm thoughts and suggestions from everyone else.

 

Goodbye,

Don't go. Just ignore what's not useful.

 

Is it possible Diesel has lumbosacral stenosis rather than DM? LS is very common in older hounds.

 

And kidney disease can be greatly helped by a number of things, diet & supplements among them. I see they've already been discussed but sometimes it takes a while to find the right combo. Best wishes for your boy. And don't go.

 

 

 

Ditto everything sweetdogs said!

 

Misunderstandings happen, and testiness sometimes occurs, but we mean well. With several thousand members, many of whom have had multiple greyhounds, this is still the best place I know to come for help with greyhounds. I hope you don't run yourself off!

[kudzu]

I did not see the part that said the door open, I apologize. I wasn't being judgemental at all and I'm sorry if it came across the way. For the record I wasn't the only one who thought that was a long day to have him in the crate while you work and we gave you other options/suggestions. I was simply stating my feelings/opinions, which in this forum if you post, you open yourself up to others' feelings and opinions. Trust me, I've posted my share of things and have received feedback which I was not prepared for, but it's all part of life on GreyTalk. What most folks do is "listen" to what they feel is of benefit to them, and ignore the rest.

Well, here is some more feedback. He didn't need to say that the door was open when they were home. He didn't tell us whether the door was opened or closed. I tried to politely point this out. Apparently I was too subtle so now I will be blunt.

 

You simply assumed the crate door was closed while the dog was in the crate when they were home. You assumed wrong. Even when someone was trying to point this out to you, you still persisted in clinging to your assumption. It wasn't the OP's responsibility to tell you. You should have asked.

[greyhead]

In regards to his hinds and neurological disease, the xray at least rule out a disk or artridic condition, in fact she said his spine looked great especially for a 12 year old dog. She did say that a compession test on his lower spine showed some discomfort. I was given a LOW dose( due to the renal failure) of gabapentin to see if it helps.

 

DL

Just wanted to reiterate what Kudzu (and I) said earlier about lumbosacral stenosis. It sounds like the compression test is pointing in that direction, if I'm understanding correctly. We've had great results with acupuncture/chiropractic treatment on our LS senior (age 11 now) for the past three years, and no drugs have been needed at all. With neuro stuff going on, and kidneys too, I'd tend to want to use the treatment that involves the least medicine. Your mileage may vary, of course.