Biting And Possessive

[Willowsmum]

Hi there,

 

I just wanted to chime in that we had to return our first grey, Willow, and husband and I were just heartbroken. I cried for days.

But we are an only dog family, and she was not confident enough to be an only dog.

It was such a hard thing to do.

 

BUT, she ran straight into the middle of the pack and took refuge there when we brought her to the foster home.

That was almost as hard as leaving her, but it hit home our home wasn't the right one for her.

 

We were debating giving up or trying again and we ended up taking home a bounce. He seemed so HUGE and un-dainty compared to Willow, and I wondered if

I would ever stop. mentally comparing him to our first grey.

We gave it a go and 3 month later I am SO happy we took him home! Shadow loves it here, and we adore him. He is a big, lovey, mushy boy, and has really bonded

well with us. He has even charmed the pants off of almost every friend, relative or neighbor we have introduced him to.

 

You aren't the first person to have a poor fit, and it isn't your fault or her fault, it's just a bad combination.

It really is the pits, but there is probably a dog out there who would be a great fit for your pack.

Most people I have met with a shy girlie hound seem to have fared well pairing her up with a happy-go-lucky boy, maybe that could work for you.

Aside from a belly band to prevent marking in the house while you get him acclimated, having a male is not that much different.

Good luck!

Edited June 13, 2011 by Willowsmum

[Guest iconsmum]

Yes, trainer here...I'm adding my congratulations on your ability to come to such a good decision without a whole lot of breast beating and hysterics. She's more likely to be resource guarding the other dog from you than the other way around, and that's not uncommon among pet dogs as a whole, but even if it's something else, I agree she's best off elsewhere if you're scared of her...there's no percentage in handing her that much control and it's certainly no negative reflection on you.

 

eta My goodness that was a long sentence.

Edited June 14, 2011 by iconsmum

[schultzlc]

Well, it's been several days since I contacted the group about taking her back, but she's still with me. It's been taking a long time to get the ball rolling and make arrangements to tranfer her back. I'm hoping that tomorrow's the day, because things have gotten progressively worse at home. Unless I am in the process of feeding or walking her, I cannot get within 5 feet without her growling and snapping. All three of us are a bit miserable

[JAJ2010]

I hope they can get her tomorrow... Most groups are all volunteers with day jobs, so that might be what is taking so long. She is muzzled all the time? Maybe crating most of the time wouldn't be bad idea to keep everyone safe?

[jenners]

I hope they can get her tomorrow... Most groups are all volunteers with day jobs, so that might be what is taking so long. She is muzzled all the time? Maybe crating most of the time wouldn't be bad idea to keep everyone safe?

 

Yikes, honey, please be careful. I'd be surprised if the OP can get within reach to muzzle or crate her without getting bit. Does the adoption group understand the urgency? I know they have "real" lives and are doing their best to get to you ... but how scary the waiting must be. Please be very very careful not to provoke anything; if you or your first houndie get badly bitten, it doesn't bode well for the new houndie's future.

 

Jennifer

[Guest Shana]

In response to Jennifer being concerned that muzzling/crating is a dangerous venture... while it might be, I do not know... I would muzzle the protective "Big" Sister first IF she is stil only being aggressive when you give "Little" Sister attention. Put Big Sis in a bedroom while you muzzle Little Sis and then let her back out so as not to cause destructive stress outlashes. Like Batmom said, muzzle one, muzzle all.

 

If Big Sis is being aggressive without warrant when you approach her (Big Sis), then by all means, do not put yourself in dangers way and just avoid triggering behaviour until you get in contact with the group.

 

 

ETA - I did not make a lot of sense ... fixed. haha

Edited June 19, 2011 by Shana

[schultzlc]

This afternoon I met up with Lola's original foster parents to transfer her back. Although we had a rocky relationship, it was really tough on me to let her go. I wanted it to work out so bad, but had to do what was the best for the three of us. I was worried that Luna would be upset when I arrived back home without her sister, but she seems completely unscathed. She's actually back to playing more, and just gobbled down her dinner without blinking. All in all, this was a placement gone terribly awry, but I gained a lot from the experience.

 

Thank you all for your support and advice while I worked my way through my options!! It's great, especially for a newbie, to have a system in place to allow communication with strangers linked through a common obsession

[JAJ2010]

I'm so glad it worked out. Luna is prob relieved! The shy ones don't like stress. Are you going to try another hound?

[jenners]

I'm so glad this worked out for everyone. You did such a good thing for Lola even though I know it hurt.

 

Jennifer

[Guest Figmama]

I totally agree that you are not experienced enough to handle this situation and it could easily escalate to something worse. I wonder how long they have been together. Often, littermates raised together can end up with a situation where you basically have two dogs and one brain and one being dominant. Years ago, when I had Shelties and did some breedings, twice I had people come and want to buy two puppies (a breeder's dream come true, right?) Well, they were not really *dog* people and I would not sell them two littermates. I told them to take one, bond with that one and train it then think about adding another. A neighbor bought two Boxer littermate pups and they have problems with the female being aggressive and, actually, they have done a pretty good job of raising the two.

I think this aggressive Grey needs to be re-evaluated and perhaps, separated from the sister, will calm down. It may certainly do better in a one dog household.

I know you feel bad but these things, unfortunately, can happen and a solution has to be found for your sake and that of the dogs.

Good luck.

[Guest ravenchilde]

Our girl Miley became very possessive of a bone when we first got her. She would growl, then snap at me or my wife. Mostly the wife. I countered this with (gentle) violence and dominance. (That sounds bad...) if she'd growl and get into attack mode, I'd lunge in and pick her up. This scared the crap out of her and she'd often yelp like she was being tortured, even though i'd only picked her up in a normal lift for a greyhound. This might get someone bitten, depending on the dog, but I was quite comfortable that I was bigger and badder than her, and the times she'd nipped me she hadn't hurt me. After a few exercises of picking her up during any bad behaviour and putting her down on her side, or on the couch (which she was uncomfortable with), she ceased and accepted my dominance.

 

I don't know if people will hate that approach, but it worked, and everyone was safe and nobody got hurt. Miley also knows who is boss... the person who can pick her up. After that, I taught my wife to get a large part of her body between the dog and the bone if she wouldn't drop it on command. That worked, and now she'll drop on command. I guess you have to be pretty sure your dog isn't a vicious biter... but they are smaller than you, so a leg coming between them and something seems to work to show that possession has transferred.

[JJNg]

I'm glad the OP was able to return her dog, and it sounds like that was the best solution for all involved. Can't help but comment on this latest response, though.

 

if she'd growl and get into attack mode, I'd lunge in and pick her up. This scared the crap out of her and she'd often yelp like she was being tortured, even though i'd only picked her up in a normal lift for a greyhound. This might get someone bitten, depending on the dog, but I was quite comfortable that I was bigger and badder than her, and the times she'd nipped me she hadn't hurt me. After a few exercises of picking her up during any bad behaviour and putting her down on her side, or on the couch (which she was uncomfortable with), she ceased and accepted my dominance.

I'm glad this approach worked for you, but as you seem to recognize yourself, there is a significant risk of getting bitten when handling a dog this way. You may be able to get away with this with some dogs, but depending on the dog's underlying temperament and past experiences, you may also get severely bitten. And if that were to happen, it wouldn't be the dog's fault - it would be a defensive response as the dog would see you as attacking her - but the dog would probably pay the consequences.

 

With many other effective, non-confrontational training approaches available, I see no reason to use techniques like this that risk provoking the dog to bite. I prefer to have my dogs do what I want because they trust me and I have given them the motivation to cooperate with me. I want our relationship to be one of love and mutual respect. I don't need to 'scare the crap' out of my dogs to make them do what I want because they are afraid of me.

 

Once you've broken the trust and scared a dog enough that he feels the need to bite to protect himself, you can't take it back. You can work to rebuild that trust, but there may always be some emotional scars that have lasting effects. And I say this from personal experience. I had an IG that was a fear biter, and the first time he bit me was when I followed the advice of professionals who told me to 'alpha roll' him (put him on his side/back, and hold him down until he stops struggling).

 

My IG wasn't a 'vicious biter', just an anxious, insecure boy who was trying to communicate his fears. That first bite happened when he was about 1-2 years old. I gradually learned more about dog behavior and switched to positive reinforcement based methods when the more traditional/dominance methods continued to make things worse. By the time he was 4-5 years old, I'd switched to completely non-confrontational methods, but he continued to bite in situations where he felt stressed and threatened for the rest of his life. Since he was a little dog (about 16 lbs), this was manageable, but this behavior isn't something most people would deal with in a larger dog like a greyhound.

 

Possessive behavior isn't unusual in dogs that are new to a situation and feeling a bit insecure. A lot of times, this behavior goes away on its own as the dog settles in and learns to trust you.