Iverheart- Generic Heartworm Medicine

[Guest KsFrets]

measurements are made with a tiny syringe which is too small to be cleaned and I'd have to trash one each time and use a new one.

 

Are you talking about squirting Ivomec on food? We suck up and squirt out a couple syringes full of hot soapy water before each use. We've used the same syringe for 3 years now.

[JJNg]

I have seen first hand what happens when a greyhound is under dosed on Ivomec. Our Heart came to us with heart worms from being under dosed in the adoption kennel she was in for a year.

Just curious, how do you know she was under dosed? If using the standard 1% ivermectin solution undiluted, it is practically impossible to under dose. If you look at Swifthounds' calculations which are right on, 0.0272 cc is less than 1 drop (ie. 1 drop of the liquid ivermectin contains more active ingredient than a Heartgard tablet/chew for a 51-100 lb dog - not that I recommend doing this as drop sizes can vary). I'd be looking more at whether the Ivomec was being administered properly/consistently. Of course, there are a very tiny percentage of cases that get heartworms despite being on proper prevention, another good reason to test yearly.

 

I really don't have a problem with using liquid ivermectin as heartworm preventative, in general. I do like to make sure those who choose that route have done the research, are familiar with dosing, and aware of the risks. And ideally, it should be done with the support and guidance of your vet. I am fully aware and understand that many with large number of dogs and kennels decide to go with the liquid ivermectin because using even the generic versions of Heartgard gets very expensive. What concerns me is when general doses are posted (esp high doses like 0.1 cc/10 lbs) without any cautions mentioned. I know that many here have other breeds as well, and that dose given to a sensitive individual could be deadly.

[Hubcitypam]

It seems I'd have to buy a gallon of propylene glycol (which may be slightly toxic) and dilute it in order to be able to measure the .02 ml my vet recommends. And all of these measurements are made with a tiny syringe which is too small to be cleaned and I'd have to trash one each time and use a new one.

I've read some people use orange juice to make it more patable. Syringes are $12.99 for 100 at Wal Mart (this I know).

If you are just squirting it on food why can't you use a diabetic syringe with a needle to measure the dose then dispose of it?

Edited May 5, 2011 by Hubcitypam

[Hubcitypam]

You don't want to be giving ivermectin to a HW+ dog and not know it.

I always wonder about this. Homer the lab across the alley is HW+ and his parents don't have the money for the treatment and Homer is elderly and might not withstand the hard shock. The vet has him on Ivermectin therapy AKA Heartgard. How does that work? The vet is purposely giving a HW+ dog Ivermectin. All these years we've been told that they'd drop dead on the spot.

[krissn333]

We have used Ivomec here for years with no issues.

 

Ivomec is also used to treat demodectic mange...we had two dogs in our kennel that had it. They both weighed around 70 lbs and received 0.7cc TWICE DAILY for something like a month or two, along with a couple of medicated baths. So, I kind of find it hard to believe that 2cc's would be considered a fatal overdose.

 

I bought our syringes at Farm and Fleet (similar to tractor supply)...I got a 2pack for a couple of dollars. I do use the needle to draw the stuff out of the bottle. Then I put the cap on the needle, twist the needle off and set it on the counter, and then squirt the stuff into their mouths.

 

But, the Iverheart pills are just fine. You can get Iverheart, Heartguard, and a bunch of other medications at Joe's Pet Meds and you don't need a prescription, although I do recommend a heartworm test before starting heartworm prevention. If a dog has heartworm and you give the heartworm prevention, it could be very bad. Newer research suggests that the result is not fatal and some even believe nothing bad will happen, but I choose to err on the side of caution.

[Guest WhiteWave]

We started using Iverhart Max for the big dogs. I plan on probably going back to the liquid Ivermectin, but we had an issue with tape worms and Iverhart max is cheaper than tapewormer by itself. I am going to give it for a few months just to make sure their are no more tapes.

 

None of my dogs had an issue with it.

[JJNg]

The vet has him on Ivermectin therapy AKA Heartgard. How does that work? The vet is purposely giving a HW+ dog Ivermectin. All these years we've been told that they'd drop dead on the spot.

Generally speaking, ivermectin is relatively safe for dogs who are heartworm positive. However, like a lot of the other issues mentioned here, the dose of ivermectin is very important. The tiny doses used in Heartgard are very safe. Heartgard is regularly used in dogs with heartworms, either as a preventative before and during treatment with Immiticide. Or in cases where treatment is declined for various reasons, Heartgard by itself will shorten the lifespan of the worms (from 4-7 years to about 1.5-2 years) as well as prevent further infection, so the heartworms are slowly eliminated.

 

The risk with using HW preventatives in positive dogs is from the microfilaria (worms larva in the bloodstream) being killed and causing an anaphylactic reaction. The faster the microfilaria are killed, the more risk there is of a bad reaction. The old, daily HW preventative (DEC, Filaribits) was probably the worst with this risk. Of the current monthly preventatives, milbemycin is the most risky (this is the active ingredient in Interceptor, Sentinel, and now Trifexis). The low dose of ivermectin in Heartgard kills microfilaria very slowly, which is why it's safe. Higher doses of ivermectin (such as those used to treat mites, or when using liquid ivermectin as a preventative) kills microfilaria faster, which increases the potential risk, but is still relatively safe compared to milbemycin.

 

Ivomec is also used to treat demodectic mange...we had two dogs in our kennel that had it. They both weighed around 70 lbs and received 0.7cc TWICE DAILY for something like a month or two, along with a couple of medicated baths. So, I kind of find it hard to believe that 2cc's would be considered a fatal overdose.

I don't think anyone said 2 cc would be a fatal overdose. If you're referring to what I wrote above, it was that 2 mg/kg was considered a toxic dose for normal dogs without the gene mutation. This would be about 5 cc for a 55 lb greyhound. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but from some of the things I've seen clients do, mis-dosing by a factor of 10 is not out of the question.

 

However, the risk to dogs with the MDR1 gene mutation is my bigger concern. While not really a concern in greys, many members who read this board also have other breeds, and they may try to dose their other dogs the same way after reading about it here - especially when everyone talks about how safe it is. This could be deadly for a herding breed dog with that mutation.

 

Yes, ivermectin is used routinely to treat demodex. However, vets are very careful not to use it in herding breeds, or even possible herding breed mixes because of their sensitivity to ivermectin. Individuals of other breeds can also have that gene mutation and be sensitive, which is why the ivermectin is usually started at a lower dose and gradually increased to the target dose if the dog tolerates it ok. The target dose to treat demodectic mange is 0.4-0.6 mg/kg daily, which isn't that far off from the toxic dose, so it has to be used cautiously and monitored closely.

[Guest sja5032]

You don't want to be giving ivermectin to a HW+ dog and not know it.

I always wonder about this. Homer the lab across the alley is HW+ and his parents don't have the money for the treatment and Homer is elderly and might not withstand the hard shock. The vet has him on Ivermectin therapy AKA Heartgard. How does that work? The vet is purposely giving a HW+ dog Ivermectin. All these years we've been told that they'd drop dead on the spot.

 

Ivermectin is the usual route for many HW positive dogs especially in shelters. A dog can die from any heartworm treatment, its not specifically ivermectin that is bad. The idea is that if you don't know the dog has heartworm, treat them, and don't restrict activity like you are supposed to, the dog is at a greater chance of he normal complications associated with HW treatment. My GSD mix came from a shelter in the middle of having HW treatment (large doses of ivermectin) and when talking to the vet she told me that the whole dog will die from getting HW treatment if HW positive isn't really the case.

[krissn333]

 

Ivomec is also used to treat demodectic mange...we had two dogs in our kennel that had it. They both weighed around 70 lbs and received 0.7cc TWICE DAILY for something like a month or two, along with a couple of medicated baths. So, I kind of find it hard to believe that 2cc's would be considered a fatal overdose.

I don't think anyone said 2 cc would be a fatal overdose. If you're referring to what I wrote above, it was that 2 mg/kg was considered a toxic dose for normal dogs without the gene mutation. This would be about 5 cc for a 55 lb greyhound. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but from some of the things I've seen clients do, mis-dosing by a factor of 10 is not out of the question.

 

 

Oops, I missed something there...sorry! And yes, it is very important to get the dosing right and understand how to do the math to get there (and I promise that my dogs always get the right dosage...I pay much more attention to that than I did to the 2mg/kg that you posted )