First Time Feeding Hamburger

[Guest kerber]

How much hamburger does one feed their dog? Same amount that I feed in kibble? My dog is switching to one ingredient diet to figure out potential allergies. Thanks!

[Batmom]

Depending on how fatty it is and how active the dog is, @ 1.5 - 1.8 lbs/day.

[Guest kerber]

Depending on how fatty it is and how active the dog is, @ 1.5 - 1.8 lbs/day.

 

He is a Senior with LS - so limited activity and the burger I got was 80/20...so, probably towards the lower end of your suggested amounts?

[Batmom]

That sounds like what I'd do .

[Guest mcsheltie]

No need to guess. Look and see how many kcals are in the kibble you are feeding has. Then go to the USDA site - link and find out how many kcals ground beef has. They list the different fat percentages and whether you are feeding raw or cooked. Feed enough ground beef to equal the kcals in your kibble.

[4My2Greys]

Did you feed the hamburger only last night? If so, was there any reaction like those that had been occurring? Inquiring minds are eager to know.

[Greytlady94]

Raw or cooked? If raw figure 3% of body weight per day to start out.

[Guest kerber]

Did you feed the hamburger only last night? If so, was there any reaction like those that had been occurring? Inquiring minds are eager to know.

 

Absolutely no reaction thus far (and way less gas!) - he has had 3 meals of hamburger, 2 of them I added some rice.

 

BUT he hasn't gone #2 in about 36 hours - is that normal? He has urinated though, and I will be heading home from work in 2 hours, so we'll see about the poo...

 

BTW - he absolutely goes crazy when I fed him - I haven't seen him that excited about food in a looooong time!

[Guest Swifthounds]

Absolutely no reaction thus far (and way less gas!) - he has had 3 meals of hamburger, 2 of them I added some rice.

 

That's encouraging.

 

BUT he hasn't gone #2 in about 36 hours - is that normal? He has urinated though, and I will be heading home from work in 2 hours, so we'll see about the poo...

 

BTW - he absolutely goes crazy when I fed him - I haven't seen him that excited about food in a looooong time!

 

 

There's nothing so enticing to a hound as a Meal of meat he can actually smell!

 

Yes, you will notice reduced stool volume if all you're feeding is beef and just a bit of rice. His body will be using most of what he eats and producing little waste.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Swifthounds

[Guest FreddyGirl]

My 5 go bonkers for dinner, their raw meal. Imagine 5 hounds standing in a line, heads up, awaiting my exit to the living room where they eat on towels. Hilary and Tommy go in circles, doubling back, because evidently, I don't walk fast enough for them, not bad for 10 and 11 1/2 year olds, huh?

[Guest kerber]

Yes, you will notice reduced stool volume if all you're feeding is beef and just a bit of rice. His body will be using most of what he eats and producing little waste.

 

 

How long can they go without producing stool before I should be concerned?

[Guest Swifthounds]

The only concern you would have is if you have a LOT going in and nothing coming out for more than a day or two - or if he appears to be straining to go and not producing.

 

Much of meat ( cooked or raw) is actually water. for my raw fed hounds, they normally produce stool once per day or every other. On a day when I have fed a bone in meal, I will usually see stool that day. If I fees boneless meat for a few days, it will be less often and lower volume.

[Guest kerber]

The only concern you would have is if you have a LOT going in and nothing coming out for more than a day or two - or if he appears to be straining to go and not producing.

 

Much of meat ( cooked or raw) is actually water. for my raw fed hounds, they normally produce stool once per day or every other. On a day when I have fed a bone in meal, I will usually see stool that day. If I fees boneless meat for a few days, it will be less often and lower volume.

Ok, here is my spreadsheet since changing to burger/rice and bathroom incidents to show you how much food- I am at 42 hours now and no inclination to produce stool - doesn't strain:

 

Time since last bathroom

Sunday 7 p.m. 1/4 c TOTW, 2 cups beef

Monday 4 a.m. liquid, dark diahrrea 0 hour

Monday 10 a.m. 2 cups beef and rice

Monday 6 p.m. 1 cup beef and rice

Tuesday 4 a.m. no stool 24 hours

Tuesday 7 a.m. 2 cups beef and rice

Tueday 4 p.m. no stool 36 hours

Tuesday 7 p.m. 2 cups beef and rice

Tuesday 10 p.m. no stool 42 hours

[Guest Swifthounds]

You should be due for some "production" soon, but as long as there's no straining or discomfort and he's keeping things down, I wouldn't fret too much. Rice, BTW, is one of the more digestible grains (especially if "overcooked" to sticky like most do for feeding to dogs). How's your pupper doing overall?

[Guest kerber]

You should be due for some "production" soon, but as long as there's no straining or discomfort and he's keeping things down, I wouldn't fret too much. Rice, BTW, is one of the more digestible grains (especially if "overcooked" to sticky like most do for feeding to dogs). How's your pupper doing overall?

 

Rice is definitely sticky overcooked style. He still hasn't produced a stool, and it now has been 56 hours - never thought I would be so anxious for him to actually go - it is usually getting anxious I won't be home in time from work to let him out!

 

Overall, I think he seems much more relaxed, almost like he is finally able to get the much needed greyhound rest he hadn't been getting for a week because of what I believe now to be a food allergy. Or I could be misinterpreting his ultra relaxed state and there is something wrong... He is still drinking water and urinating...I just really wish he would do the other!!!!

 

He has also been dealing with LS junk, a topic I've posted on another thread, and at least that hasn't worsened. Thanks for the help!

Edited March 23, 2011 by kerber

[4My2Greys]

I didn't see if you posted what your grey weighs, but I don't think your feeding enough. I based the following calculations on a 65 to 70 lb greyhound and feeding 3% of body weight since you want to put on weight. What I come up with is approx 2 lbs or 4 cups of ground beef to be fed daily.

If you can post your grey's weight I do have have a book at home that outlines amounts of meat and rice (grain) each required based on the weight of the dog that I would be happy to share with you later.

 

ETA: I just saw you've got the weight in the title.

Edited March 23, 2011 by 4My2Greys

[Greytlady94]

I didn't see if you posted what your grey weighs, but I don't think your feeding enough. I based the following calculations on a 65 to 70 lb greyhound and feeding 3% of body weight since you want to put on weight. What I come up with is approx 2 lbs or 4 cups of ground beef to be fed daily.

If you can post your grey's weight I do have have a book at home that outlines amounts of meat and rice (grain) each required based on the weight of the dog that I would be happy to share with you later.

 

Definitely I would use 3% per day of the beef divided in two meals to start. If he looks like he is losing weight then go up to 3 1/2%, etc.

Long term just hamburger will not be enough, you will need to add variety but you can find lots of raw feeding info on Greytalk.

I would stop the rice and increase the meat, but that's just me.

[Guest mcsheltie]

Like I said in post #5... There is no need to guess how much to feed. No need to wait until the hound losses or gains weight. Look up hamburger on the USDA site and feed the amount of hamburger that provides the same amount of calories as the kibble you are feeding.

 

The OP is doing an elimination test to see if the medication or food is causing the dog's problem. So they do not want to feed anything else but hamburger right now.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Like I said in post #5... There is no need to guess how much to feed. No need to wait until the hound losses or gains weight. Look up hamburger on the USDA site and feed the amount of hamburger that provides the same amount of calories as the kibble you are feeding.

 

If the hound was having gastric issues as a result of something dietary and an allergy/intolerance is suspected, the amount of kibble previously being fed and the amount of kcals in that amount are as much of a guestimate as the percentage of body weight. A dog with loose stool and diarrhea isn't using all of the energy going in as kibble as the body is ridding itself of the offensive substance as expeditiously as possible. Not that the USDA database isn't a good place to get a rough idea, but between the diarrhea and the GIT inflammation, it's unlikely the dog has been getting full use of the kcals going in.

 

If the reaction ceases and the GIT heals, the hound should eventually start being able to utilize what it is taking in.

[Batmom]

Like I said in post #5... There is no need to guess how much to feed. No need to wait until the hound losses or gains weight. Look up hamburger on the USDA site and feed the amount of hamburger that provides the same amount of calories as the kibble you are feeding.

 

Yep. I estimated a weight because I've fed a ground-beef-only elimination diet and I know some folks don't like to calculate, etc. But that would be the more accurate way to do it. I would go by the calories of what he was eating when he was doing well.

[Guest kerber]

Update and gross description warning

 

- I thought I posted this already, can't see it here on the boards, but Bo-D had 2 bowel movements today! Yipeee...don't have to worry about blockage. It happened at 2 p.m. and 6:30 p.m. Not firm in its entirety - kinda a combo of firm and watery... a firm piece emerged out slowly, whilst watery stuff came out at the same time real fast around it...I have never seen anything like that before.

 

Upon recommendations here, he got 2 cups of cooked burger (more than he'd been getting prior) with 1/2 cup rice for dinner. Now, if we have this D under control, I would like to keep him on a limited ingredient diet for a while, but realize I need to look at vitamin and mineral intake. I went to the natural pet store and they suggested using Animal Essentials herbal multi vitamin and consider switching to cooked chicken or salmon, since evidently cooked fats-which beef has a lot of- are bad for dogs? I looked at the prices of the raw meat packaged for dog consumption (so you don't have to cook out the nasties found in human grade burger), which is twice the cost of hamburger...eeeks.

 

Looking at the ingredients of TOTW Wetlands and the Canidae Platinum - I didn't see where sunflower oil was a common ingredient in the two - so I am thinking perhaps it was sunflower oil from one food source and maybe potato from the other? I have also stopped the gabapentin, and he doesn't seem to be in pain (been 48 hours off that med).

[Guest mcsheltie]

Keep him on the hamburger until well after his stools are completely firm. You can't do an elimination diet if you are adding in the kitchen sink. You have no control and if he reacts again you will have no idea what he has reacted to. You have to give the immune system time to calm down.

 

These pet store people are giving you very BAD advice. Cooked fats are NOT bad for dogs. Pet store employees are often the most misinformed people on the planet. Think about it logically. You are trying to figure out what your dog is reacting to and they are advising you to add a multi/herbal product. If he reacts will you know what ingredient in this product he has reacted to? This is one of the worst things you could do right now. They are telling you to switch him to chicken... why? Chicken is in the food he may be reacting to. What would be accomplished by switching him back to that? Raw meat packaged for dogs has no less bacteria, and probably more, than human grade ground beef. Not to mention all the many ingredients he could react to.

 

FYI, you can not balance a diet on a pet multi vit/mineral. These are made to be fed to dogs eating processed food, which are already over supplemented. They are really useless. There is not enough of anything in them to balance a diet. They are marketed to make people feel better because they are giving a vitamin/mineral supplement. But you might as well be throwing your money in the toilet for all the good they do.

 

Do not worry about balancing his diet right now. Often one needs to stay on one ingredient for up to eight weeks. I doubt that will be necessary in your case, because you aren't dealing with IBD. But do not rush into adding things in. What you want to do is get him stabilized. Obviously from your last post he is not there yet.

 

From your post, you are only guessing at what ingredients might be causing the problem. You are thinking sunflower oil because someone suggested it to you. No basis in fact tho. You have already added rice to the mix. What if the rice is what is causing the watery stool? You have to get him stabilized on one ingredient before you add a second.

[4My2Greys]

 

 

Looking at the ingredients of TOTW Wetlands and the Canidae Platinum - I didn't see where sunflower oil was a common ingredient in the two - so I am thinking perhaps it was sunflower oil from one food source and maybe potato from the other? I have also stopped the gabapentin, and he doesn't seem to be in pain (been 48 hours off that med).

 

You didn't have problems until you started feeding him the canned Canidae platinum. You then switched to another brand of canned which also caused problems. You need to compare the common ingredients in those foods, which by the way sunflower products are common to both these foods.

I know that in an elimination diet you should as McSheltie is instructing you start with a single ingredient and see how the dog does and then slowly add other ingredients one at a time and test for reaction. I however would have approached it more simply by eliminating everything but the TOTW you had been feeding, which hadn't been giving you any problems, to rule out any reaction to that food. If there were none then I would have compared the common ingredients in the 2 canned products which were being fed when the reactions started and one at a time added that ingredient and tested for reaction.

[Batmom]

Keep him on the hamburger until well after his stools are completely firm. You can't do an elimination diet if you are adding in the kitchen sink. You have no control and if he reacts again you will have no idea what he has reacted to. You have to give the immune system time to calm down.

 

Ditto. I wouldn't feed the rice -- not a lot of calories, and in some dogs it can produce exactly the type of poop you describe. Just the hamburger.

 

Also ditto re not worrying about balance (or adding anything else) at this time. First turn of an elimination diet is 12 weeks minimum. Your dog will be fine without vitamin/mineral/oil/etc supplements for that period of time and longer.

[4My2Greys]

Batmon & Mcsheltie, I'm not trying to confuse things here, but I really don't understand the need here for a full elimination diet. I could see the need if she had only been feeding the TOTW. The problem started occurring when she added the canned foods. Wouldn't it have been more logical to just eliminate the canned and see what results you get. If the problem persisted then a full elimination diet would be warranted. To me throwing out both foods at the same time when one hasn't given you a problem is like throwing the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Once you rule out the TOTW as not being part of the problem you can look at the ingredients which are common to those 2 canned foods fed. Feed those ingredients one at a time and test for reaction. Wouldn't that have been a lot simpler and taken a lot less time.