Howling When Home Alone

[Guest iLoveLucie]

We've had our grey, Lucie, for almost 9 months now. She is a very spoiled girl since I work from home, so she isn't used to being alone and doesn't like it, which she demonstrates by howling - loudly - we've recorded it.

 

In our old apartment, we didn't share a wall with any neighbors and had a neighbor with a greyhound. When we had to leave her home alone, she often got to stay at our friends place. When she was home alone - she'd howl, loudly, about every 10 minutes.

 

We moved to a new city and a new apartment with lots of new neighbors. So we've started more structured training to try keep her quiet when home alone.... We are doing this training every day after work and have a pretty good routine (I think):

 

1) We go for a long walk after work (she gets 4 a day - plenty of exercise)

2) She gets her dinner first

3) Then she gets her treat stuffed Kong

4) The classical music gets turned on and the doors to the bedroom/bathroom are closed

5) We leave, anywhere from 15 min when we run to get a coffee to 90 min when we go out to dinner

6) She is fine when we leave - sitting on her bed working on the Kong, she doesn't even notice when leave

7) We ignore her when we get home; she is usually waiting by the door but after she sees us, she will run back to her Kong (which we will take away so she only associates it with being a special treat when she is home alone.)

 

Despite the happy/quiet dog we leave and return to, according to the baby monitor app on our phone we know about every 10 minutes she will howl her head off by the front door!

 

Yesterday we got our first "complaint" from a neighbor. He was pretty nice, even said an old neighbor had a dog that barked all the time which was "more annoying" than our dog. But clearly he can hear her, and he isn't even right next door - about 2 doors down.

 

She is never ever vocal when we are home. We started in her crate and then let her our - both with the same results. She is very independent when someone is home - ie. she'll go into another room and sleep all day, we can go to the bathroom and close the door without any reaction. I hesitate to call this separation anxiety because that she is not destructive to herself our the house. We brought it up with our Vet and she recommended a "behaviorist" (expensive) and a DAP Diffuser (we haven't gotten that yet). We've talked to other greyhound owners, and most have smiled and suggested a second dog. We are considering it... we are nervous about getting another howler - or a dog with "real" separation anxiety. We won't be moving to a house in the country anytime soon.

 

Ideally we'd like to get Lucie to a place where she can be home alone for a few hours without howling. Is this possible? Any thoughts/suggestions are welcome!

[Laurenbiz]

A few questions about the items on your list - and some that I didn't see.

 

You say she's fine when you leave. Are you ignoring her, avoiding eye contact, and just exiting the house? If you make an emotionally-loaded departure (pet her, say, "Oh, I'll miss you, I'll be back," etc.,) then this may increase her anxiety once you actually leave the house.

 

Are you playing classical music during other times of the day when you are home with her? If the classical music only gets turned on once you're ready to leave, this may be a trigger for her and she'll see this as a sign of you leaving.

 

Have you done alone training? Leave your house for 30 seconds and come back in, multiple times. Then one minute and come back in. Then two minutes, and so on. If she starts howling at, say, two minutes, then don't try to keep increasing the time. Alone training for the humans is pretty tedious, but it can really help the dog!

 

Good luck

 

 

 

PS - I've learned from Bernie that a dog with separation anxiety can look just dandy when you leave the house. But, that anxiety is there! His problems have been bad enough that he is now taking antidepressants, and even though he is lounging on his dog bed as I leave, his anxiety is still there since he exhibits his typical SA behaviors later!

[GeorgeofNE]

I feel your pain. George was a howler. I got three complaints in one day (this was when I'd only had him a few weeks). I didn't believe my neighbors, so I videotaped him. It was a nightmare. The SECOND I'd leave, he'd tip back his head and howl like a wolf until the tape ran out (2 hours).

 

My solution was no more crate--but clearly that's not the problem with your girl.

 

I did use the DAP diffuser--not sure if it helped. She doesn't sound terribly anxious, frankly. Just vocal!

 

I did engage a behaviorist, who was kind enough to do a phone consult, and she's the one who said, "Sweetie, if he howls in the crate, why do you keep putting him in it?"

 

I'm not helping, am I?

 

What do you consider "plenty of exercise"? Taking her out 4 times a day is really what she needs just for bladder and other needs. How long/far are you walking her? I know it's been a crummy winter, but if she's asleep, she won't howl.

 

I've been told to try country music; they don't typically hear classical at the track kennels!

 

I was very fortunate that I was the chairman of the condo board while my neighbors were complaining about George--and not inclined to fine or otherwise punish myself--but I DID make the rounds to all my neighbors with a friend note inviting them to come meet their new noisy neighbor, with an assurance I was doing everything I could think of to quiet him down.

 

Some cookies to your neighbor might go a long way with the same assurance?

[Guest iLoveLucie]

Laurenbiz - We do our best not to make a big deal out of leaving. After her dinner and as we prepare to leave we typically start ignoring/dialing back the interaction. We really just tell her to "go to your bed" in order to get her Kong. And then we get on jackets and leave - and she doesn't seem to be bothered by it. She'll last about 10 min (per our recording) before she realizes we are gone, heads to the door and howls. Then she'll pace/stare/lay in front of the door - and howl every time minutes or so... The music goes on during her dinner, and turns off when we get home. We've done the leave a minute/come back/leave/come back. She did OK with that - but maybe we jumped too far/too fast. She did OK with about 5-10 min of us coming/going. Then we jumped to 15, 20, 30, etc. and the howling would come back and we didn't go back to 5 min - maybe we should?

 

GeorgeofNE - We will try the DAP; again, haven't rushed out to get it because the review seem sorta mixed on it. We can definately try Country Music; the other day we tried "easy listening" and she seemed to last a little longer before the howls, but then the next day we were back to the 10 min mark. So far we've only had the one complaint and he was nice. I'll drop by some cookies to keep him nice There are lots of dogs in the building, so many fans of Lucie... but we want to keep it that way!

 

Oh - and Lucie gets 4, 30-45 min walks per day (except maybe when weather is bad and we have to cut one or two short, which in our Pacific NW moderate climate isn't often). We start off very brisk, and by the end sometimes she is barely keeping up, so I assume she is getting her exercise.... And we've been doing the training after a long walk - hoping she'll be tuckered out.

[RobinM]

Once again, GeorgeofNE has offered greyt insight and advice.

 

No advice on my end other than to try all things suggested especially a visit to the neighbors with YOUR tail tucked between your legs and an explaination and asking them to please be tolerant until this passes.

 

There is a wonderful article in this months Whole dog Journel.

 

It's called "Don't get Defensive- 5 things to do when your neighbor complains about your dog.

 

1) Listen to wha they have to say.

 

2) empthathize and apologize- without admitting guilt (it must be frustrating to listen to barking dogs when you are trying to sleep/watch tv..etc)

 

3) Investagate

 

4) Be legal, be considerate

 

5) Take action.

 

If you want the article, let me know and I will scan it and email you.

[Guest 2dogs4cats]

I am sorry I really don't have any advice on how to stop the howling, but just a note about getting another dog. I know that some people will suggest that, but that doesn't always fix the problem, so I guess just a note of caution on that. My bridge dog Star was a 2 time return due to his howling when left alone. The previous owner before me lived in an apartment and the neighbors were complaining. I live in a house, so he could howl all he wanted and no one cared. (I digress). When I got him, I already had a GH and he was the second and it didn't stop him from howling. When I would leave, he would start the minute I left the house and was still howling when I returned (I don't know how much he did when I was gone, but I assumed he didn't stop). I guess my point is, having company didn't stop him from doing it, BUT I will say it did decrease over time. I think it was many months, but it decreased gradually and I would say after 8 months stopped completely. I pretty much just ignored it and one day he just stopped entirely. He was such a lover, my lapdog, and I had him for 7 years. I miss him every day.

 

Good Luck!

[turbotaina]

...Have you done alone training? Leave your house for 30 seconds and come back in, multiple times. Then one minute and come back in. Then two minutes, and so on. If she starts howling at, say, two minutes, then don't try to keep increasing the time. Alone training for the humans is pretty tedious, but it can really help the dog!

...

 

Just wanted to reiterate this. You have to start small and continuously keep the dog under her her threshold. Several years ago, there was a woman on this board named Glynda or Glynnis. She lived in England and had adopted a greyhound named Lady. She meticulously went through alone training in very, very baby steps and got her dog over her SA. I don't know if her threads are still here as they may have been deleted during regular purges, but it's worth a look Good luck!

 

Oh, another quick thing - get the booklet by Dr. Patricia McConnell called "I'll be Home Soon". It offers excellent advice on the prevention and treatment of separation anxiety.

 

And - I've found that NPR worked really well with noisy fosters I had

Edited February 25, 2011 by turbotaina

[Guest mcsheltie]

Lucie email me - jspayde @ sbc global. net

[Guest iLoveLucie]

Thanks turbotaina. I have the McConnell Book, and it is because of this book I don't like to say Lucie has SA. The example of the dogs in her book - ie. the one who jumped thru a glass window she got so panicked, the dogs who tear up floors and doors trying to dig out, the dogs that pee/poop all over the house. Lucie doesn't do any of those things. We did start of small - we were able to get up to 4 sessions of 5 minutes being alone and she was fine. But 20 min in a row she has an issue with. I think her threshold has something to do with how quickly she finishes her treats - it probably takes her 10 min to finsh her frozen Kong stuffed with treats, then she looks up, notices were done, and starts howling. We could always leave her 5 Kongs - but we'd end up with one over-weight hound!! Sounds like we just have to start over with the short training sessions... 10 min seems to be her threshold right now.

 

And I appreciate your insight 2dogs4cats. That is the reason we've held off on the second dog... We are considering foster a dog to see how Lucie reacts to that. We can "test" out the second dog theory and see if it helps her howling plus help a hound get ready for his/her forever home!

[Guest Sunset123]

I have a similar problem that I'm going to need to solve soon, because we're moving and it's likely we'll be in an apartment instead of a house.

 

Arrisa does not have SA. She doesn't mind when we leave, and she's relaxed when we get home. However, I'm pretty sure she does bark for a while. I have no idea what to do about it.

[GeorgeofNE]

What's IN the Kong?

 

I use peanut butter. I just buy grocery store brand, and I keep the peanut butter jar in the fridge so it's a bit stiff. I take a knife and run a coating of peanut butter all around the inside of the Kong (king sized). The I refrigerate it. Takes a lot longer than 5 minutes to finish.

 

I don't put anything else inside, but you COULD.

 

The behavior lady also suggested a game of hide 'n seek; take pieces of kibble and hide them all over (places that she won't damage if she paws a bit to get the kibble).

Edited February 25, 2011 by GeorgeofNE

[Guest iLoveLucie]

We try to mix up the Kongs... we have about 5 in all diff shapes/sizes. Lately we've just been filling them about 80% of the way with her kibble and then sealing up the top with something like peanut butter (her favorite), yogurt, cream cheese, pumpkin. Then we freeze them to make them last longer.

 

We get her to her bed with Kong #1, and lately we've tried "hiding" a second near the door - hoping if she runs up to howl she may see the Kong and work on that instead. I'm not sure that is working.... but maybe. Lately when we get home she will be camped out by the door with both Kongs. However we still hear the howling on our recordings.

 

One a side note, the neighbor who talked to us said he heard crying/whimpering. Maybe he was being nice - or maybe it is muffled through the walls. Because there is NO WAY to mistake her howls for a whimper!

[Guest iLoveLucie]

I have a similar problem that I'm going to need to solve soon, because we're moving and it's likely we'll be in an apartment instead of a house.

 

Arrisa does not have SA. She doesn't mind when we leave, and she's relaxed when we get home. However, I'm pretty sure she does bark for a while. I have no idea what to do about it.

This experience has made me think of what I might do differently next time - our lease is up in June - so there might be another move soon:

 

Try to get on a top floor. Try to get a corner unit or a unit with out any shared walls with a neighbor (or at least one room without any shared walls where the dog can be when you are gone). Try not to be next to the main stairs/elevators where there is more foot traffic. Try to get a tour during a time when people are home - if you can hear a TV thru the walls, you will definately hear a barking dog! Ask the building mananger about dog noise policies.... one building we toured required you to crate a dog if you got noise complaints (I guess they don't know that can make it worse sometimes?). Find a very pet friendly building... people are more understanding either because they have a dog or they just like dogs and will put up with it.

Edited February 25, 2011 by iLoveLucie

[Jackandgrey]

I would just like to jump in and say when doing your alone training, the idea is not to do 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes etc in ever increasing lengths of time. All you may be doing is teaching an anxious dog to hold it together for as long as they can till they can't anymore. You want to do is no rational order of time durations such that that the dog can't anticipate or figure, I just need to wait a little longer and they will be home. For example, 5 minutes, 2 minutes, 7 then 5 then 10 then 2 then 12 then 15 then 10 then 20 ........ get the picture?

 

You ideally want your dog to NOT be anticipating your return cause they have no idea when this might be and geez I am bored silly with this game just go! With each leaving and return you would give and take away the kong and otherwise ignore the dog as mentioned earlier.

[GeorgeofNE]

Sounds like you really are on the right track--but I did determine that straight up sticky stuff in the Kong takes WAY longer to get out than kibble or biscuits topped with stuff.

 

Do you have wood floors, or carpet? If you have carpet, you might try a Buster Cube. That's a big plastic thing you put kibble in. The dog has to bonk and roll it around to get the kibbles out, one piece at a time!

 

A younger, redder George in action!

 

 

 

This is a fun toy, but will be noisy on wooden floors.

[krissy]

I fill the kong up with kibble mixed with either peanut butter, cheez whiz, yogurt, or cottage cheese. Then I freeze. The sticky stuff between the kibble makes it take a lot longer to clean out. This works for Summit. Usually takes him about 20 minutes to empty a Kong. If you leave her with two of those you've got 40 minutes maybe.

[Guest avadogner]

I feel your pain. I've got a thread going "do you want cheese with your whine" about my sweet boy Augie. He cries all the time he's not getting direct attention. He has mulitple premium treat and PB stuffed Kongs, bully sticks, has dog door access to a 1/2 acre backyard, gets a one mile walk every day. He has a sister to keep company but she is ailing and not playful actually a pick of a bully sometimes. We play NPR, country or the Tv on news channels. He cries for atleast 15 minutes of every hour he's awake. We have worked on alone training and slip out without drawing attention and slip back in but he's going bonkers. Our neighbors in the house next door have complained about his howling. We are working on restarting the grey play group in our area and a new dog park opened that we go to weekly.

 

We were warned he was "very vocal". The crate got ditched the first night because he was so stressed he vomited repeatedly and flipped the crate. This was with me and his sister dog sleeping in the room with him. I know his main problem is missing the constant action at the track (retired last may after 3yrs racing) and other playful dogs. The ideal would be to get a third playful buddy for him. Unfortunately that is not an option due to my health issues (huge med bills) and the medical costs of his ailing sister. I sleep with earplugs and still wake to him in poking me in the face whining. Closing doors drives him into hysteria so we leave doors open so he can see us. He thinks the bathroom is my escape hatch and goes nuts every time I take a bath.

 

He has improved in the fact he is no longer causing destruction so that is the silver lining. He was eating furniture and books. He has GI issues still despite mutliple GI supplements and a grain free diet. I am unable to work due to my health and it's taken me 6 months to build the stregnth to walk him once a day. My DH travels for his job so he's not able to walk him daily but he gives him about 2 walks a week too. I am interviewing a pet sitter to do a second daily walk (at $10 per mile) and am finally considering medicating him. We have been usisng the OTC anxiety meds but they are not enough. We have an appt with our vet to discuss and evaluate him for a RX level meds. I really don't want to medicate him but he's in distress and it's making my health worse. I am having another surgery in 3 wks and will need 6 wks recovery. I am so worried about him regressing during this time.

 

I'll be following your thread as well as mine for tips to help my sweet boy and hope your grey's SA improves. Good luck and prayers to you.

-ava and augie's mum

[TwiggysMom]

I agree with the idea of a treat ball - I use the Tricky Treat ball. It looks like a giant orange golf ball made of soft rubber, so it is quieter than the Buster Cube. It takes quite a while for them to walk around and get all the kibble out (at least 45 minutes), and since you can fill it with their regular kibble, you just essentially feed them a meal using it - doesn't add any extra calories! I can get at least a cup of kibble in it.

 

I also agree with NPR or your local PBS television station - anything that has conversational voices going most of the time.

 

Many other good ideas posted here, especially the point about varying the times used in alone training, rather than just incrementally increasing the time!

 

Good luck, I certainly hope the barking/howling resolves. Sometimes, it is just a matter of time, and they get over it by themselves - of course, sooner rather than later would be preferable for this!

[Guest iLoveLucie]

We had a small victory today! We were able to leave Lucie home for 10 minutes while we ran to the market with no howling...

 

Not sure if it was because we left in the afternoon (still light out) or because we had both the music and the washer/dryer as background noise... Who knows, but I'll take it - and keep working with her and try all the suggestions provided here - I think a kibble distributing toy will be a big hit!

[AndysMom]

I vote for switching the radio over to TALK radio of some sort. Sports, news, whatever. Hearing human voices may be more soothing to her than music of any variety.