Guest bigorangedog Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 So we've had Eyore for around 6 months or so. He's 9, and he's a Big Guy (tall, big boned, and well, pudgy too). He has had what I can only describe as "night terrors" for much of this time. "Night Terrors" -- They only happen at night, not during day naps. He will sit up suddenly, eyes open but vacant (he's not "in there"), staring at something invisible, and do a very vicious snarl, snap, growl routine at nothing for a minute or two. Then he snaps out of it, looks around somewhat bewildered, and then flops over and back to sleep. I'm distinguishing this from regular "sleep aggression," which he also has, meaning when he is bumped in his sleep he'll startle and snark, realize it's you, and then be sorry. Anyway -- I talked to my (wonderful greyhound-owner) vet about the night terrors, and it turned out that one of her dogs had a similar thing. Her girl Onion Patch would do this also, but instead of snapping, she would cry and shake with fear until she snapped out of it. For Onion Patch, it turned out that she was hypothyroid, and putting her on soloxine got rid of the night terrors. So we decided to test Eyore's thyroid. It was lower than the normal greyhound range, but not outrageous. However, other than being fat (104.6 - but like I said he's a big guy, so this really isn't SUPER fat), he didn't have any other hypothyroid symptoms. We decided to try him on .8mg soloxine 2x/day to see how it went. Interestingly, it really cut down on the night terrors. At times he had been having them every night, even more than once a night. During this past month on soloxine, he had 3 total. Last week we tested his thyroid again and it was in the borderline low-normal range. He had lost one pound. Seems all good.... EXCEPT - He has become increasingly snarky over the past month (while awake), such as protecting food dishes and water dish, snarking at other dogs if they bump into him etc. And he has recently also started panting more than I would like. He has also not been as playful. Is the soloxine doing this to him? Is his T4 of .8 actually too high for his body? My vet wants me to keep him on the same dose of soloxine for another month, check his weight and thyroid again, and see if the aggression/panting/etc gets any better over time. (She was originally going to suggest upping it to 1.2mg 2x/day until I told her about the weirdness.) I'm not sure I want to do this. Appreciate any thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudzu Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Did you run the full thyroid panel? T4 alone is not enough to diagnose hypothyroid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Those are typical symptoms of hyperthyroidism but could also be caused by something else. How was his thyroid tested originally? How long has he been on the soloxine? I will note that most of my dogs have had "nightmares" from time to time; some more, some less; some eyes open, some not. The only one who didn't was Zema, and she snored. I attribute them to sleeping more deeply at night than during daytime naps. Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigorangedog Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Did you run the full thyroid panel? T4 alone is not enough to diagnose hypothyroid. I believe that she did, but I don't have the numbers at hand. I did the expensive one that gets sent out someplace... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest krystolla Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 No personal experience here, but this website does list personality changes as a possible but rare side effect of soloxine, and says that you should check with your vet if they occur. I'm not sure whether the side effects indicate an intolerance to the drug or a dosage that's too high. My non-medically trained inclination would be to ask the vet if I could try a smaller dosage and see whether that lessens the side effects without bringing back the night terrors. I can understand the vet wanting to wait a month though, since the drug does seem to be helping him. Since it's only been six months, it's hard to tell whether the personality change is absolutely the drug or if it's just part of him settling in. I assume there haven't been any other big changes lately -- less exercise, new additions, food changes -- that might also cause his upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigorangedog Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Those are typical symptoms of hyperthyroidism but could also be caused by something else. How was his thyroid tested originally? How long has he been on the soloxine? I will note that most of my dogs have had "nightmares" from time to time; some more, some less; some eyes open, some not. The only one who didn't was Zema, and she snored. I attribute them to sleeping more deeply at night than during daytime naps. He's been on the soloxine for a month. I've also had dogs having "nightmares," including one who would sometimes let out a blood-curdling werewolf howl in the dead of night, seemingly asleep (scared the crap out of me every time). But this is something that seems qualitatively different to me. It really seems like "sleepwalking" in people. It's very odd. And it's strange that the soloxine has cut down on them so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShantisMom Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Shanti is on soloxine. Her thyroid tested at .02 on meds. I had a problem with her ummm attitude when she was on a generic thryrotab. Don't know why, but put her back on soloxine and it stopped. Maybe try a different brand? Quote The Girls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhead Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) The personality change can just be from what he shows when he's too tired to care (hypothyroid) to what he shows when he he suddenly has the same level of hormones as everybody else. Now he has to learn to manage himself with the full complement of thyroid hormones. You can help him with that by calmly correcting his snarkiness and letting him know that it isn't necessary or appreciated. Over and over until he gets a handle on his new self. I know before my hypothyroidism was treated, I had the patience of Job. No really. It was ridiculous. I didn't have the energy to sweat the small stuff, and it mostly all seemed like small stuff. But after being treated for it for a few months, I noticed that I wasn't all that patient anymore. In fact, sometimes I'm grouchy and or impatient toward my DH. I always catch myself and apologize; it's just a question of how fast. I realize that nobody snatched my old personality and hid it somewhere! But I do react a bit differently, and it has taken some getting used to. Mostly, now I have the energy to object to things I would previously have let slide. So maybe Eyore was never really Eyore-like by nature; but that's all he could be with the limited energy he had. And then there was the snarly/vicious way he was when he got *really* low and felt impossibly vulnerable, as an animal would in that condition. I have worked on training myself to manage this extra energy better, to recognize it when I'm edging into irritability and do something else -- give myself a little time out, for instance. DH is very kind about waiting for me while I take a deep breath and a moment. He knew me "before" and knows I'm committed to gentleness as a value and a way of behaving. So he didn't divorce me when I "changed." Personality is grounded in our individual chemistry as much as in our experience of ourselves and the world. When our chemistry changes -- whether it be from thyroid treatment, puberty, menopause, or the flu -- our personality changes too. And we always have to learn to manage it. I hope you can help Eyore manage it. Or try a lower dose if and when you and the vet think that's what you need to do. Edited January 28, 2011 by greyhead Quote Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby172 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 My grey/whippet mix is on soloxine. When she was on a higher dose, she was very irritable and anxious. Lowered the dose and she is much better. Linda, Keeva and Bella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Energy11 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Goldie is on Soloxine 0.6 mg daily, and I have noticed POSITIVE changes in her. **She still has her nightly, barking, whining, and running around, but not like before. You could email your questions and all of Eyore's past thyroid testing to Dr. Jean Dodds, who was the one who helped me, and basically, along with my former vet. and friend, Dr. Beau, saved Goldie's life! http://www.hemopet.org/contact.html Dr. Dodds got back to me when she was in Austrailia! Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigorangedog Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 So maybe Eyore was never really Eyore-like by nature; but that's all he could be with the limited energy he had. And then there was the snarly/vicious way he was when he got *really* low and felt impossibly vulnerable, as an animal would in that condition. This would make sense to me, except that before soloxine, he was very playful. Every night he'd go on a little tear through the house, playbowing and going crazy. Always trying to get the other dogs in the yard to chase him. He is LESS playful now. And there's also the panting issue. Tried calling my vet today to chat about it, but she was home with a sick kiddo. I don't like to call her home or cell #s for stuff that's not serious, so I'll probably just wait 'til Monday. I like the idea of trying a different brand of drug. Or maybe I'll take him down to half and see if things change at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhead Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Silly me, I assumed his personality from his name. I do hope you can get him squared away. A lower dose sounds promising. Quote Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigorangedog Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Silly me, I assumed his personality from his name. I do hope you can get him squared away. A lower dose sounds promising. LOL That's what I thought I would be getting when I adopted him too. But he's a character. Eyore was his racing name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echobelly1 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 My 85 lb., 9 year old male has been on .4 mg. of soloxine once a day for about a year. It has made him much more jumpy. He used to be very laid back. I mentioned it to the vet, and he didn't think it was a side-effect of the drug, but it started the day after his first pill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigorangedog Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 We've taken it down to a half-dose since Saturday, after chatting with Dr Meg. He actually does seem to be feeling a bit happier and perkier. We'll see how it goes... No night terrors since the switch yet, so that's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhead Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Wonderful news! Thanks for the update. Quote Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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