Teddy Is Hypothyroid Too

[RobinM]

2 of my 5 dogs is hypothyrpoid. 2 of our good friend's greyhounds out of 4 is hypothyroid.

 

I am beginning to think that it is more frequent than originally thought.

 

Teddy had been exhibiting some serious agression. He also started losing hair after having a terrific result with the melotonin. So, on Friday I had a full thyroid run (MSU) and he has classic numbers. T4/3 down TSH up. Plus the clinical signs. He started on the meds tonight. I have them for Chloe who was diagnosed at a young 2 years old. Teddy will be 7 next month.

 

He also had a CBC done and that showed a possible clot factor which my vet is pretty sure is secondary to the hypothyroidism since it's been fine in the past. We will recheck it in a month just to be sure.

[OwnedBySummer]

I'm sorry to hear that. And it's clinically interesting that you know so many. What makes you go "hmmm, I think my dog is suffering from hypothyroidism"? I read the symptoms and a couple jumped out at me. In particular, lameness in the back end and the hair loss thing. I am currently dealing with Summer and lameness in one hind leg (x-rays clear, too much time has passed for it to be soft tissue damage and she is currently being treated by a chiropractor with excellent results), as well as she is losing her hind leg fur. She did that when we first got her but it came back in. Now it's going again?

 

I and I think others would be interested in how you got from A to B...

[Guest Energy11]

Wow! You MIGHT want to send his results to Dr. Jean Dodds, like I did Goldie's. That is one of her specialties. Goldie has no hair on her butt or her stomach, and yes, she exhibits aggression (*only at night, though).

 

Here is her address: hemopet@hotmail.com

 

Good Luck with your Teddy!

 

Here is also something you might find interesting ... http://www.hemopet.org/services.html#bookmark1

 

 

[RobinM]

I'm sorry to hear that. And it's clinically interesting that you know so many. What makes you go "hmmm, I think my dog is suffering from hypothyroidism"? I read the symptoms and a couple jumped out at me. In particular, lameness in the back end and the hair loss thing. I am currently dealing with Summer and lameness in one hind leg (x-rays clear, too much time has passed for it to be soft tissue damage and she is currently being treated by a chiropractor with excellent results), as well as she is losing her hind leg fur. She did that when we first got her but it came back in. Now it's going again?

 

I and I think others would be interested in how you got from A to B...

 

As my vet said when she called me today "you really know your dogs".

 

I am actually happy that it's this simple and not a brain tumor.

 

Teddy was exhibiting some serious aggression. He has some aggression issues but this was different. He was charging at the door when my 19 year old son came in the door, when his friends came over, etc. In addition, the hair loss when just 2 months ago,he had a lush coat. I just knew it.

 

Wow! You MIGHT want to send his results to Dr. Jean Dodds, like I did Goldie's. That is one of her specialties. Goldie has no hair on her butt or her stomach, and yes, she exhibits aggression (*only at night, though).

 

Here is her address: hemopet@hotmail.com

 

Good Luck with your Teddy!

 

Here is also something you might find interesting ... http://www.hemopet.o....html#bookmark1

 

 

 

 

Thanks Dee but we don't need Dr. Dodds for this. We have it totally under control.

Edited January 3, 2011 by RobinM

[Guest Energy11]

I'm sorry to hear that. And it's clinically interesting that you know so many. What makes you go "hmmm, I think my dog is suffering from hypothyroidism"? I read the symptoms and a couple jumped out at me. In particular, lameness in the back end and the hair loss thing. I am currently dealing with Summer and lameness in one hind leg (x-rays clear, too much time has passed for it to be soft tissue damage and she is currently being treated by a chiropractor with excellent results), as well as she is losing her hind leg fur. She did that when we first got her but it came back in. Now it's going again?

 

I and I think others would be interested in how you got from A to B...

 

As my vet said when she called me today "you really know your dogs".

 

I am actually happy that it's this simple and not a brain tumor.

 

Teddy was exhibiting some serious aggression. He has some aggression issues but this was different. He was charging at the door when my 19 year old son came in the door, when his friends came over, etc. In addition, the hair loss when just 2 months ago,he had a lush coat. I just knew it.

 

Wow! You MIGHT want to send his results to Dr. Jean Dodds, like I did Goldie's. That is one of her specialties. Goldie has no hair on her butt or her stomach, and yes, she exhibits aggression (*only at night, though).

 

Here is her address: hemopet@hotmail.com

 

Good Luck with your Teddy!

 

Here is also something you might find interesting ... http://www.hemopet.o....html#bookmark1

 

 

 

 

Thanks Dee but we don't need Dr. Dodds for this. We have it totally under control.

 

 

I am glad you have it under control :-)) Isn't it AMAZING, though .. .just how many of our greys have this condition?

 

I HOPE this is what is "wrong" with my Goldie, and as you know, it can be "fixed!"

 

Love to you and to Teddy!

[Guest mcsheltie]

I am sure a large number of us has heard Dr Couto speak. He disagrees wholeheartedly with Dr Dodds and has seen maybe two real cases of GH hypothyroid in his career. And yet there are many on this list who who have dogs dx-ed with it and treatment has made a big improvement in their lives.

 

Perhaps we should be sending these dog's case work to him. Including vet contact info... what do you all think?

[Guest Energy11]

I am sure a large number of us has heard Dr Couto speak. He disagrees wholeheartedly with Dr Dodds and has seen maybe two real cases of GH hypothyroid in his career. And yet there are many on this list who who have dogs dx-ed with it and treatment has made a big improvement in their lives.

 

Perhaps we should be sending these dog's case work to him. Including vet contact info... what do you all think?

 

 

Based on HOW MANY of us have dogs with this condition .....AND, if, after thyroid supplementation, we see clear improvements, ... sure, it couldn't hurt to compile data!

[RobinM]

If a full panel are done at MSU and the dog is showing clincial signs, then I really don;t think there is a debate! Do you?

 

My vets practice sees a lot more greyhounds on a pass through basis than Dr. C.

 

He sees cases that are referred to him for speicalty treatment. My vet and I were just discussing just how many GH really do have hypothyroid.

Edited January 4, 2011 by RobinM

[Guest zombrie]

Hmm... what are the typical symptoms of hypothyroid?

Energy11's description "Goldie has no hair on her butt or her stomach, and yes, she exhibits aggression (*only at night, though)" sounds EXACTLY like a greyhound at our kennel. He has been here for a year and a half now and hasn't been able to get adopted because he is extremely bald (bald butt, thighs, legs, neck and thin hair through out his body) and is aggressive at night (during the day he is 100% perfect, it's only at night)

[Guest Energy11]

Ya know ... personally, ALL I care about is, our dogs'd health! If we can find out what is wrong, and "fix," it ...than, so be it! IF others want to compile data, GREAT! Surely couldn't hurt, BUT, the bottom line is, ... whatever works for OUR DOGS! ... nuff said.

 

Good luck to all of us who have dogs facing hypothyroidism, and hoping that, supplementation takes care of their issues.

[RobinM]

Ya know ... personally, ALL I care about is, our dogs'd health! If we can find out what is wrong, and "fix," it ...than, so be it! IF others want to compile data, GREAT! Surely couldn't hurt, BUT, the bottom line is, ... whatever works for OUR DOGS! ... nuff said.

 

Good luck to all of us who have dogs facing hypothyroidism, and hoping that, supplementation takes care of their issues.

 

 

AMEN.

 

Hmm... what are the typical symptoms of hypothyroid?

 

 

Depends.

 

With Chloe, she was so much of a spook, at her first adoptive home she spend 3 solid weeks in her crate and they had to carry her out of the house for her to do her business. When I adopted her, he levels were so off the chart and she was so off the charts "spooky", after just a short time on the meds, she was a 110% different dog. She had some bald spots.

 

With Teddy, he became aggressive and where he had a thick lush coat, it suddenly thinned out.

 

There is no conclusive evidence that bald thigh syndrome has anything to do with hypothyroidism.

[Guest mcsheltie]

If a full panel are done at MSU and the dog is showing clincial signs, then I really don;t think there is a debate! Do you?

I sure don't. Besides Teddy, I have read enough cases on this board that shows there are clearly more than two GHs with hypothyroid problems. I understand Dr Couto's points and the risks he feels you take with this breed when you supplement when it isn't needed. But perhaps it is a growing problem in the breed and he needs to re-think his position.

 

In Shelties it waxes and wanes. They are a different deal than GHs. If they are low normal, you need to medicate. Less than 10 years ago it was a growing problem. but I haven't seen many cases lately. Perhaps the opposite is happening in GHs because of the popular sire syndrome.

[45MPHK9]

mcsheltie , funny you should mention Dr. Couto.

 

We heard Dr. Couto in October at the Greyhounds Rock event. I went through the notes I took from his talk. He said that based solely on total T4 tests, 76% of greyhounds would come up hypothyroid. He said that TSH should be measured, as well. This test is expensive so most vets do not do it. He also mentioned that lab work should be seen by the folks at Michigan State University, as they have the largest endo lab in the United States. He has seen three greyhounds that are truly hypothyroid.

 

I am not debating your results, Robin. I am just wondering about this question Isn't it AMAZING, though .. .just how many of our greys have this condition? in light of what i heard Dr. Couto say at his talk.

 

[BauersMom]

How many patients does Dr. Couto see that are not cancer patients? I'm not sure his clients necessarily reflect the retired racing greyhound population as a whole, generally.

 

There are plenty of greyhounds who are hypothyroid. No doubt. And there are a lot of greyhounds who are labeled hypothyroid who are in fact not. I can't tell you how many times I hear from folks that their vet wants to supplement based on solely a free T4 number and a handful of symptoms that may or may not actually be thyroid related. I had one of those dogs and he ended up having hemangiosarcoma... I wish we hadn't stopped with the "easy" answer and had looked for the "real" one.

 

Either way, there is a good blood test and the fix is simple - I'm not sure it's worth trying to compile data.

[45MPHK9]

My vets practice sees a lot more greyhounds on a pass through basis than Dr. C.

 

When we saw Dr. Couto in October he reported that OSU saw 1,400 greyhounds in 2008 and 2,200 in 2009.

[Guest Energy11]

I guess this issue all boils down to ... if WE, because WE are the owners/parents of these dogs, decide to supplement their thyroids, as I have decided to do for Goldie ... AND I/we, see improvements in their behaviors and the quality of their lives ... then, we have done what WE think is right, and it has worked!

 

As a paramedic, who worked in many medical venues, I LEARNED to QUESTION, QUESTION, AND GET MANY OPINIONS! I NEVER settled for the first medical opinion I got!

... Read, question, ask ... get many opinions, ... BUT ... again, it all boils down to what WE think is right for these wonderful babies of ours! Goldie and I are embarking on a new journey ... Robin and Teddy ... theirs ... and many of you, too. BE informed! QUESTION EVERYTHING, and most importantly ... follow your GUT and your instincts! Good Luck with all of this~

Edited January 4, 2011 by Energy11

[Batmom]

Supplementing a dog with normal thyroid function who has suppressed fT4, fT3, T4, T3, etc. due to other illness or stress will make the dog seem "brighter." The original problem, which can be quite serious and deserving of attention, is still there.

 

If I had followed the oft-stated recommendations on this board to supplement dogs due to shyness, spookiness, "aggression," panting at odd times, lethargy, "just not doing right," hair loss, etc., I'd've killed at least one dog by now.

[Guest dee]

I don't have the same experience that a lot of the people on this forum have. Micah began losing h is hair, had no energy (for a two year old) and was gaining weight. My vet sent his blood to Cornell university and he started on soloxine. We retested in four weeks and his thyroid hadn't budged. Increased his meds slightly and waited to retest. His level went up slightly and it still isn't normal (for a greyhound). His behavior has changed radically!!! He is now perky, mischievous, has lost the additional weight, has an improved coat. I have to believe that after making a diagnosis based on clinical as well as lab results and looking now at the results that in my case it certainly seems that soloxine was the correct treatment with all due respects to dr couts. Have to admit we are soooo excited that our big shy, spooky boy has taken such a giant step out of his shell.....all of this just about one month before his first gotcha day. We hugged him a lot before but now we're getting such cute responses from him. I LOVE soloxine. It gave us the dog we suspected was hiding inside. Sorry this is so wordy.....sounds like I'm on something!

[duncan41]

I have no first hand experience with hypothyroid in any of my dogs, but I did hear Dr. Couto address the subject. At that time, he was asked to comment on the free hand with which soloxine was being administered by some and advocated by others to cure a host of symptoms without the benefit of a complete exam and blood work done by MSU. My impression was that using the MSU criteria coupled witih an evaluation of symptoms, Dr. Couto has seen very few truly hypothyroid dogs. As we have all read on this forum from time to time, many folks have been told that their hounds were hypothyroid due to "low" T4. My Anna is a good example. She was treated as hypothyroid not too long after she was adopted by her former owner for the very same reason even though her only symptom was a bald butt and her T4 was on the low end of normal! No other testing was done, but her records show that she was given soloxine.

I tend to depend on the "show me" method to diagnose, but if I had a dog with symptoms that could not be explained, I would be willing to try just about anything.

If it looks like a duck................................

 

 

[greyhead]

Supplementing a dog with normal thyroid function who has suppressed fT4, fT3, T4, T3, etc. due to other illness or stress will make the dog seem "brighter." The original problem, which can be quite serious and deserving of attention, is still there.

 

If I had followed the oft-stated recommendations on this board to supplement dogs due to shyness, spookiness, "aggression," panting at odd times, lethargy, "just not doing right," hair loss, etc., I'd've killed at least one dog by now.

I'm glad you saved the one dog. But I cannot help but feel very badly for what is likely a much larger number of hypothyroid dogs who don't even get tested for it, much less treated, and who suffer with all those symptoms and more, because their people have been told that it's so rare.

 

Also I don't think it would necessarily be a terrible idea to rectify thyroid hormone levels and keep looking for whatever else may be going on. I'm assuming here that seeming "brighter" does not mean seeming perfect. But if there is inadequate thyroid hormone, for whatever reason, the body is not going to function normally. So how about normalizing at least that much and seeing what's still not right?

Edited January 4, 2011 by greyhead

[greyhead]

My vets practice sees a lot more greyhounds on a pass through basis than Dr. C.

 

When we saw Dr. Couto in October he reported that OSU saw 1,400 greyhounds in 2008 and 2,200 in 2009.

I gather that Dr. Couto sees most of these dogs in regard to diagnosis and treatment of cancer.

[45MPHK9]

My vets practice sees a lot more greyhounds on a pass through basis than Dr. C.

 

When we saw Dr. Couto in October he reported that OSU saw 1,400 greyhounds in 2008 and 2,200 in 2009.

I gather that Dr. Couto sees most of these dogs in regard to diagnosis and treatment of cancer.

 

those numbers reflect the total number of greyhounds seen as part of the OSU greyhound health and wellness program. he did not indicate what percentage of these dogs were seen specifically for cancer diagnosis/treatment.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Supplementing a dog with normal thyroid function who has suppressed fT4, fT3, T4, T3, etc. due to other illness or stress will make the dog seem "brighter." The original problem, which can be quite serious and deserving of attention, is still there.

 

If I had followed the oft-stated recommendations on this board to supplement dogs due to shyness, spookiness, "aggression," panting at odd times, lethargy, "just not doing right," hair loss, etc., I'd've killed at least one dog by now.

 

 

I don't know what Dr. Couto is basing his findings on, and I'm certainly not arguing that thyroid supplements aren't life changing for some dogs, but I would be very careful before supplementing with a major hormone. When you start looking at autoimmune thyroiditis, I don't think there's any disagreement that it's not common and certainly not common in greyhounds. Most of the levels in sight hounds tend to test at the low end or just below for the blood values in the MSU panel or Dr. Dodds' panel. Older male greyhounds, and especially intact male greyhounds, tend to have lower T3/T4 levels.

 

Things like stress, illness, and other autoimmune impairment, etc. also inhibit thyroid function - which explains why we tend to see T4 levels that are quite low in greyhounds recently off the track. While some have misguidedly (and sometimes pig-headedly) insisted that greyhounds suffer in great numbers from hypothroidism because they exhibit some of the clinical signs of thyroid disease and supplemented as if thyroid disease was present, the change they are seeing is the "brighter" or "fluffing" effect. Where that's the case, supplementing is either band-aiding an undiagnosed issue or "treating" a transitory condition that will correct as soon as the suppressing condition resolves or is treated. Thyroid supplementation does help keep thyroid disease in check when it is present, but it's not without its ill effects, especially when applied broadly.

[greyhead]

MSU says Teddy is hypothyroid. Without elevated antibodies. And I'm happy for him that he's not one of the 15% of dogs who are hypothyroid without elevated TSH, according to MSU. Or he'd be up a creek, wouldn't he?

[Batmom]

MSU says Teddy is hypothyroid. Without elevated antibodies. And I'm happy for him that he's not one of the 15% of dogs who are hypothyroid without elevated TSH, according to MSU. Or he'd be up a creek, wouldn't he?

 

The flip side of that is that without TSH, diagnostic sensitivity decreases to something like 30%-60% (depending on whether you've used fT4ed or a less accurate measure of fT4). That would mean that of those dogs diagnosed as hypothyroid without use of fT4ed and TSH, most aren't.