Miles Attacked My Cat This Morning

[Guest greytmiles]

Do you have information about how your group determined he was cat-safe, did he live in a foster home with a cat or was he tested at the track?

 

Unfortunately, I don't have any info of how the adoption group does their cat testing. I thought I'd remembered them having a 'cat correctable' classification, but when I look now all I see is a yay or nay. The group has a kennel of about 30 available greyhounds, so Miles was never in a home before mine. I just want to re-state that I in no way blame the group for what happened. They are great and generous folks.

 

 

Cody was a starer/drooler at the cat and that's probably the WORST sign of not being cat-safe... and it did work.... eventually... but it took a lot of work and a lot of time!

I started to say this in my response, but then didn't. The ones that just stand there staring intently, not moving at all (aside from maybe quivering with anticipation) are the ones to be most wary of.

 

In retrospect, Miles would definitely do some staring... and a little drooling. The thing that made it so tricky was that he would be incredibly inconsistent... one day super intense about the cats, the other day just looking over at them and then laying back down.

 

Assuming Miles is even workable, I would say that 99% of a cat-trainable Greyhound's ability to live safely with cats depends on how strong of an alpha the owner is, and how calm and confident the cat is. If you're missing either of those components, it's just that much harder.

 

BTW - some dogs test cat safe because they're not showing us their true feelings at the time of the test due to stress or whatever. But if he's distractable/pliable enough to pass a cat test, then he's got a decent chance of being workable.

 

Admittedly, I'm not a very alpha person. I can (and have) definitely train Miles to do things like stay out of certain rooms of the house, wait for his dinner, walk well, and leave it, etc., but I was very upfront with my adoption group about my 'laid back' personality. I'm sure this would have been fine w/out the issue of the cats. He's responded very well to my other expectations thus far.

To compound the problem, BOTH of my cats have been super shy their whole lives. That doesn't help.

 

I'm working on more replies....

Thanks so much for all the feedback!!!

Erin

Edited March 26, 2010 by greytmiles

[Guest Jubilee251]

Just adding my two cents - like Miles, Molly was also incredibly inconsistent about how she reacted to our cat. She would stare - no drooling - and whine with her tail up. She also barked at him a few times. When the cat moved, she would get up and chase him without fail for the first month or so. I don't know that she ever would have put her mouth on him if she had gotten him, but she was very interested most of the time. Our cat is shy too, to compound the problem - he spent the first few weeks under the bed, and would dart under the bed if the dog so much as looked at him.

 

Molly is such a confident, curious, high-energy hound that the group cat-tested her three times because they just couldn't believe she was cat-safe. Even when we took her to the vet, she took Molly in the back to meet everyone. When she brought her back to the room, she asked us if Molly was ok with Flanders...because there was a cat in the back, and Molly was NOT distractible and VERY interested.

 

The difference is that Molly DID live in two foster homes with cats so we knew on some level, she had co-existed with them peacefully. We put up baby gates (the cat had the bedroom), and monitored their interactions VERY closely. There were a lot of nights spent with Molly in the bedroom on leash, distracting her over and over with treats, and using VOG when she chased or stared too much.

 

Two months later, it seems like something just clicked. She and the cat ignore each other now for the most part. The cat can go up and sniff her, and she won't react. She tries to sniff his butt sometimes, but has learned NO CHASING. She will actually refuse to go past him if he's in the doorway, and whines for Mommy to move the cat. We figured that she was just interested in exploring and playing, not necessarily killing the cat. That was the kicker for us.

 

Good luck with Miles!

Edited March 26, 2010 by Jubilee251

[NeylasMom]

 

Admittedly, I'm not a very alpha person. I can (and have) definitely train Miles to do things like stay out of certain rooms of the house, wait for his dinner, walk well, and leave it, etc., but I was very upfront with my adoption group about my 'laid back' personality.

I wouldn't worry too much about this. What you need to successfully train your greyhound to live with cats is: 1)a dog who is actually trainable, 2)an understanding of how to do the training and 3)a commitment to doing the training consistently. I strongly recommend if you decide to move forward with working with Miles that you learn about clicker training and use a clicker anytime you are working with Miles on cat training. Not to get too science-jargony but there is evidence that the clicker works through the amygdala of a dog's brain, which would explain why trainers see quicker progress and longer retention of behaviors taught with a clicker. There's some info about the theory hereand Karen Pryor talks about it in her latest book, Reaching the Animal Mind. If you're not particularly interested in the why, all you need to know is that there is an overwhelming amount of anecdotal evidence from the many trainers who use clickers that you will get better/faster results if you use a clicker.

[Guest junebug]

I am just reading this now and am so sorry that you had this happened.

 

We, unfortunately, had a situation where a new dog we had had for about a month was not progressing well (had cat tested well but was a 'fooler'), and even as we were making plans to meet with our adoption representative in our home to evaluate and most likely return him, he got one of our cats. I think that he was rather intelligent, much more so than our other dogs have been, and would wait for an opportunity to make a move if the humans' attention was distracted. Just when we would think he was progressing in the right direction, he would like lightening, snap around a corner and try to grab a cat (while on a short leash and muzzled! I could not believe how fast he could move!) This after politely interacting with the cats under supervision. We were taking great pains to keep them separated, and working on gradual and deliberate training, but made an inattentive mistake.

 

He was a wonderful dog, and it hurt terribly to give him up. It very well may be that many here with greater experience in what to do could have fixed the situation, but by that point I was ready for the funny farm and we sent him back to go to another home.

 

It is probably too late to say this, but it is extremely important to be treated yourself with antibiotics if you have been bitten by the cat. Cats have bacteria in their moths that can cause a very serious and possibly dangerous infection. I was very grateful that the vet at MedVet drummed into my head that I had to be treated. Of course my injuries were the last thing on my mind and they did not seems serious until the next day.

 

I hope that you can come to a peaceful solution. I am confident that you will make a good decision, you sound like a wonderful pet parent. Best wishes, my thought are with you.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Hoping your kitty is feeling better today and Miles' wounds are OK too. What a monstrous scare for all of you.

 

I don't have cats. I think what happens next is entirely dependent on how much work you want to do without knowing what the outcome would be. Someone above suggested a month of "cat boot camp" for Miles and then reassess, and that is reasonable. It would also be reasonable to go with your now-the-shock-has-worn-off gut feeling. If you think Miles is unlikely to pass "cat boot camp," then it would be reasonable to return him to the group.

 

Big hugs.

 

 

This would be my advice as well. I've had cats the entire time I have had greyhounds. Only one of my greyhounds was fostered/in a home before coming here (at age 12). The rest came straight from the adoption kennel. My 10 year old hound was raised from a pup with the cats and it takes a bit of work to get a "loves to chase, chase, chase" puppy to live peaceably with a cat. My last hound came right from the track and I did the cat assessment myself and spent a lot of time acclimating her to the cats.

 

It takes work with the dog, as well as work with the cats to manage hounds and cats - and it takes a strong person to do it. A hound that comes from a kennel will have it's first real interaction with a cat after coming home. That's a bit trickier if that's also the cat's first interaction with a dog. My cats had already lived with dogs (albeit not large dogs) when I brought home my first greyhound, so that definitely helped.

[Guest LindsaySF]

I have not seen this type of situation work out for the best very often, but it's not impossible. If I were you I would set some training goals but be realistic and understand that rehoming may be the only ultimate solution. Ramp up your NO KITTY to Cringe-Inducing Booming Voice of God, get a squirt bottle, muzzle, muzzle, muzzle, securely separate them when you're not home and give it some time. If things aren't markedly better in a month...it might be time for a hard decision.

I agree with this. I would keep the dog leashed and muzzled while you are working on this, and securely crated when you aren't home.

 

That said, the fact that your cats are very shy/nervous, usually doesn't bode well for getting this to work. Most cat-correctable dogs do better with confident cats.

 

Best of luck.

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

[Guest TBSFlame]

How horrible. I am glad the cat is okay, it so easily could have been disasterous.

 

I'm afraid I am going to be negative here. Given that you've been working on cat-safe behavior for a couple months and the seriousness of this incident, I just don't think it is ever going to work out. I've had five greyhounds that needed to learn about cats and if this happened to us, I think I would give the dog back because my cats would never be safe.

 

I have a friend that had several not cat safe greys. She kept her cat locked upstairs and the dogs lived downstairs for several years. They all live together now. She started working on them again and it worked. It takes time and I believe you can get through this.

[Guest TBSFlame]

How horrible. I am glad the cat is okay, it so easily could have been disasterous.

 

I'm afraid I am going to be negative here. Given that you've been working on cat-safe behavior for a couple months and the seriousness of this incident, I just don't think it is ever going to work out. I've had five greyhounds that needed to learn about cats and if this happened to us, I think I would give the dog back because my cats would never be safe.

 

I have a friend that had several not cat safe greys. She kept her cat locked upstairs and the dogs lived downstairs for several years. They all live together now. She started working on them again and it worked. It takes time and I believe you can get through this.

[Guest greytmiles]

Thank you thank you again for all of the valuable responses!!

 

After having time to 'cool' off and let my thinking transition from emotional to more rational, I see us as having two realistic options for this unfortunate circumstance.

 

1. Return Miles to the adoption group

2. Re-home the cats with family members

 

If I'm to be 100% honest with myself - what I feel is fair, and where my personal strengths are - I can't leave any other options on the table. I don't see cats and dog living separate lives as a long-term viable solution, and I don't know what I'd do differently to further train Miles away from the cats.

 

So I've put the feelers out to cat-loving relatives, and am waiting to hear back if that's even going to be an option.

Either way, I'm pretty super disappointed and saddened. In case Miles does need to go back to the group, I'm trying to think of things from a 'foster' perspective. I don't really yet understand how you lovely, generous folks do it to be honest... kudos to you all.

 

Thanks again everyone! You really really really helped.

Best,

Erin

[NeylasMom]

I don't really yet understand how you lovely, generous folks do it to be honest... kudos to you all.

 

It's not the same thing at all when you know from the minute the dog walks into your house that he is not yours. Not saying that it's easy (although for a cold emotionless person like me it is ), but the decision you are facing is different and more difficult imo.

 

I admire you for being incredibly thoughtful about this situation and not just returning Miles to the group immediately after the incident. You certainly have a hard choice to make and I'm so sorry you're in this situation.

[winnie]

No sort of expert at all, but I've spent a fair bit of time monitoring, managing and observing the interactions between my dogs and cats here in what's still a fairly new situation for them. Part of what's made it work is that my oldest cat is truly king of the house, utterly bold and fearless. I'm not sure how things would have developed if he weren't as confident as he is, but it has undoubtedly made a big difference. My grey Simba tested cat-safe and has been after the intial curiousity; Stella tested the same and was much more reactive when she came home (and is still crated whenever I'm out because of it, though she is 99% improved). It may be a better course, since your cats are shy, to adopt a very non-reactive cat-safe hound, one who could truly care less about shy little cats in the house.

 

We were lucky that we, too, have a "king of the house" type cat. We had serious doubts about our first grey, Celeste, being cat-safe despite the kennel testing. However, our cat Puff straightened her out. If it weren't for Puff, I'm not sure our other two (shy) kitties and Celeste would have ever been able to peacefully coexist. Puff has made it a point to smack each new grey that comes into our house on the muzzle to let them know who is boss.

 

I really suggest talking with your adoption group about the situation. Perhaps one of the volunteers - preferably one with both greys and cats - can come over to your house and watch how Miles reacts to the cats. We did this with Celeste. We really needed a second opinion on whether she was "cat-correctable" or not. Our group was really supportive and offered great advice.

[Guest LindsaySF]

I am glad that you are taking the time to make this decision. One thing I do want to mention though, there are plenty of cat-friendly Greyhounds out there, you don't need to rehome your cats to make it work. I'm sure your adoption group would not hold it against you if you had to return Miles, they should be willing to work with you to find a dog better suited to cats. The choice is ultimately yours, but if it were me the pets that were there first would take precedence. Good luck in your decision.

[Guest trevdog]

I agree with what Winnie said. Is an an option for someone from the group to come visit your home to evaluate Miles?

 

We test our greys too, but sometimes even when they are fostered with cats, the cat they end up living with can be very different looking and also personality wise. Please work with your group to come up with the best solution for everyone.

 

It may be that Miles needs to go to a cat free home, but at least your were able to help them find this out, painful as it may be. And there are other greys out there that are perfectly happy with cats, so don't beat yourself up too much.

[Guest eaglflyt]

We've also been through this. Thankfully we're retired, so we're home nearly 100% of the time. However, whenever we have to both be out (even if outside to be in the yard), we separate the cats into their own bedroom with the door locked. They have beds, food, water, and a litter box in their bedroom, but we will never leave the dogs and cats together again.

 

We lost a cat this way. The small dogs, dachshunds, actually started it. It was strange because they had never done anything like that before and we had them for several years. But, it happened after our elderly cat, Lavinia, passed away from a stroke. Unknown to us, she was the leader of all the animals. She merely glanced in a direction and cats or dogs would stop and go the other way. Evidently, when she passed away, that position was left open for mayhem to occur. (We thought we were calling the shots, but evidently not as much as we thought!) The dachshunds taught Ady Bea that cats were great fun to chase. She started out totally cat safe, but they taught her a new activity to enjoy. However, when she is alone, she shows NO interest in the cats at all. Ady Bea frequently sleeps with the cats and snuggles with them! She takes her cue from the dachshunds.

 

It has taken months of work to get them all disciplined enough to follow commands and not have too much interest in the cats. It's that *pack* mentality that was hard for us to overcome. One on one, any of the dogs were fine with the cats. Put 2 or 3 of them together, and things would get a lot more exciting.

 

We found most importantly to work on catching the problem *before* it starts. Everyone has to do a sit & stay or down & stay whenever we command. If someone is looking at the cats with a bit too much interest, they may be crated if they don't follow commands immediately. But, our number one position is to sit-stay everyone and have them hold it until released. This took a ton of one-on-one work, and even more as a group. It now works nearly 100%. But still, we never leave without the cats being in their room and the door secured.

 

Also, just a word of warning, cats can and will remove your grey's muzzle. This was our most horrid lesson! The cat swiping at the face of your grey can easily catch the strap that goes behind the ears and as the cat pulls her paw back, so pulls the muzzle strap over the ears and off the muzzle goes in the floor. Perhaps if we had a keeper strap it wouldn't have happened, but we didn't and handn't thought the cat would be the one to remove the muzzle.

 

We love our cats and we love our dogs. We talked at length with the leaders of our group in figuring out how to best cope and what to do. For us, the decision to work on it full time and do the separation whenever we are out (even for a few seconds) has worked for us. Best wishes to you and your pets.

 

It has taken me many months to write about this. I can only write about it now since the most intense pain is better and we now have a successfully working plan. Everyone seems to be once again settled, but we are always alert.

 

Below is a picture taken a couple of weeks ago of Ady Bea and Toby love seat sharing (Ady Bea woke up when we moved around to take a picture):

 

 

And here's Ady Bea several weeks ago sharing her loveseat with Barkley Bartholo*mew*:

 

Edited March 30, 2010 by eaglflyt