More Wizard...

[Guest SusanP]

Wizard has stopped high-stepping with his front leg, but he has had 3 spells during which his hind end sinks when he backs up. One was this morning. He's also lagging on even our short (4 doors down and back) walks. I let the dogs out, walked them, and let them out again at 8:10 a.m. I went to work and got home at around 12:15. There was a big puddle in the living room near the front door. I let all 4 dogs out and in, had a conversation with the vet on the phone, looked and found another puddle in the living room. About an hour later, I saw Wizard making a 3rd big puddle in the living room. It's him! And Wizard has never had a problem with potty accidents in the 8 years he's lived with us. Since he'd already peed a lot, I didn't let the dogs out before I went to pick up my daughter from school. I was gone 20 min. tops--came home to another big puddle in the dining room.

 

So now we have weird leg and hind end action, lagging on walks, and lots of peeing. He's going to the vet first thing in the morning to have his urine and kidneys checked again. (When he had a dental--9 teeth pulled-- a couple weeks ago, his creatinine was slightly elevated and we were going to recheck this weekend. Now we're moving it up. Of course, due to his dental extractions, he's eating water-soaked kibble, so that could be part of the reason for all the pee.

 

But I'm still worried about all this stuff happening together.

 

Does this sound like it could all be due to kidneys or UTI? Vet also wondered about something neurological like myesthenia gravis--not sure if that would affect peeing...???

 

I'm just at a loss.

 

ETA we have had a spate of pee and poop accidents indoors this past week or so. Now I'm wondering if it was all Wizard.

Edited March 8, 2010 by SusanP

[Guest SusanP]

I should add that I canceled my dental appt for tomorrow morning and will be taking Wizard to the vet again for urine and bloodwork in light of this new development.

[Guest Energy11]

Sorry Wizard, and you, are going through this!

 

Could be that his hind-end weakness and urinary incontinence are related. If certain nerves are pinched, they can cause what you are describing.

 

I would bring a urine sample into the vets, anyway, just to be sure you aren't looking at a UTI.

 

Hope this all resolves soon! Sending many good thoughts! Dee and The Five

 

 

[Guest greytbookert]

I don't have any ideas but wanted to send hugs for both you and Wizard!

[Guest FreddyGirl]

Susan,

FYI When Bobbi had the really compressed discs a few weeks ago, she had frequent pottying issues in the house. Both urine and solid stools. Once, she came to get me and by the time she got to the back door, she urinated on the kitchen floor. she could not hold it. After 3 sessions of accupuncture, much rest, NO jumping, limited stairs, there has not been a pottying issue in 2 weeks. Not bad for an old girlie with issues! I highly recommend xrays

of the limbs, shoulders and neck.

She did get to the point where she only walked a few feet and could/would not walk any further, I carried her, 65 lbs into the vets office,.Glad you're bringing in him tomorrow.

Nancy

ETA: she also had an overnight stay at the vet the night I carried her in, IV steroids, pain killers. she was released with 6 doses of pred, tramadol and deramaxx, NOT pred and deramax together

Edited March 8, 2010 by FreddyGirl

[greyhead]

Could be that his hind-end weakness and urinary incontinence are related. If certain nerves are pinched, they can cause what you are describing.

Yes, and this sounds like possible lumbosacral stenosis to me. It can be relatively easy to treat with acupuncture, which is all our Spencer has needed. It can also be easily diagnosed by the vet pushing down gently on the hind end. Might not really need an MRI to diagnose, even though it's more precise. Here's a link to Dr. Suzanne Stack's paper on LS: http://greythealth.com/lumbosacral.htm

[Guest SusanP]

Thanks for the link, Greyhead. I'm printing it out to take to the vet this morning.

[Guest SusanP]

Urine sample looked ok, vet is sending bloodwork to lab. No further leg problems since yesterday morning, but he (I think) pooped in the living room this morning. Vet thinks if it were an orthopedic problem, he wouldn't be walking so well with only occasional small problems. Vet really isn't sure what is going on but is leaning toward something neurological, which may mean a trip to Madison, WI in our future.

 

I'm at a loss.

[Guest greymom]

Urine sample looked ok, vet is sending bloodwork to lab. No further leg problems since yesterday morning, but he (I think) pooped in the living room this morning. Vet thinks if it were an orthopedic problem, he wouldn't be walking so well with only occasional small problems. Vet really isn't sure what is going on but is leaning toward something neurological, which may mean a trip to Madison, WI in our future.

 

I'm at a loss.

 

Just want you to know that I'm thinking about you and Wizard and hope that you get some answers as to what is causing all these issues.

[carronstar]

Holding you and Wizard in my thoughts and prayers.

 

 

[Guest Spencers_Greyt]

I don't know if this helps or not but Spencer has had hind end/back leg problems for a while. It has to do with messed up discs up in his shoulder that affects his back end. At it's worst, he becomes incontinent. Right now it's starting to act up again and he acts like he can't feel his left leg when he walks as he's always touching it to the floor like he doesn't trust it to be there and support him. He's started leaking again too but not completely incontinent. If he gets worse then I'll have to put him on a short dose of predninson to help with the inflmation that uis causing the problems.

[Guest SusanP]

Another concern: Does it sound strange to anyone that Wizard is frequently having his pee accidents in a part of the living room hallway that he normally lies down and rests and sleeps in, his own personal favorite spot? This seems sort of abnormal to me. He will be walking around, then stand there right near where he sleeps and pees. I've seen him lying there right on the damp spots. Other times he gets it closer to the front door in the living room.

 

Could this be dementia, and the leg problems (which I haven't seen in almost 2 days now) were just something incidental? He is still slowing down more than usual on walks, but he's otherwise walking normally. He didn't get a lot of extra fluids today ( I used less water to soak his kibble).

 

He did ok most of the day. There was poop in the living room in the morning, near the front door, and the pee incident (I saw him do it) was around 5pm. He is not giving me any warning, no real sign he wants to go out, isn't going downstairs to the back door, but runs down the stairs willingly when the other dogs are going out.

Edited March 10, 2010 by SusanP

[Batmom]

Don't know what to suggest other than maybe to schedule frequent outs for him (you/family decide when he should go out, don't wait for him to ask) until you can maybe get him to UW. Scritchies for your sweet boy.

[Guest SusanP]

Bloodwork is all fine, including the creatinine the vet was concerned about 2 weeks ago, with the exception of low thyroid--didn't ask the number, but she thought it was a bit low last fall when he was acting sort of restless--something that has continued, really. She is asking the lab to run more thyroid tests, and we will hopefully get the results tomorrow. She's hoping this could be the problem.

 

No leg problems of any kind since Sat a.m. But he gets tired withing a short distance on walks, and he's still peeing and possibly pooping (someone is!) indoors, though knock on wood so far today no accidents.

 

Please cross fingers, everyone, that my stuffy-carrying, upside down rooer will be ok...

[Remolacha]

hoping you get some answers soon!

[greyhead]

All fingers and paws crossed here! If it's thyroid, that's an easy thing to handle.

[Guest Energy11]

Finger, toes, and paws crossed for Wizard.

 

Hard to say what this all was, but if he is getting progressively better, that IS a good sign!

 

Many good thoughts and prayers too! Dee and The Five

[Guest vahoundlover]

Could he have a UTI as well ? Keeping Wizard in my prayers!

 

 

[Guest SusanP]

She saw no signs of a UTI but said we could do an abdominal draw (forgot what it's called) to get a sterile sample to send out for culturing. Thought she'd just get the thyroid numbers first since it'll be fast.

 

Oh crud, he just peed. And he was out an hour ago!

[Guest SusanP]

*Still* waiting on the thyroid tests and feeling very impatient. He's been peeing about every hour, one accident inside today, very restless til I lay down with him and then folded laundry in the bedroom while he finally went to sleep. He kept pacing and either coming up to me or nudging his food dish, but he doesn't seem to want what's in it (and he ate this morning--he has gotten a bit spoiled since his dental extractions and wants canned food mixed in). The accident was because I misread his pacing and nudging the food dish to mean he was hungry, not realizing that it meant that he had to pee and he'd been out less than an hour before and had peed a lot.

 

The only mobility issue I see at all now is some hind end stumbles while going walking up stairs--It seems like he's always been a little clumsy on stairs, but I noticed it today when he was only walking up, not galloping. Also on occasion since fall a little, almost not noticeable stumble with hind feet when we're out walking. No further high stepping in front or collapsing in rear. Still slows down pretty fast on walks, but was out in the yard scampering around with his buddy for a long time earlier.

 

the vet says if thyroid isn't it, we'll do a urine culture to be sure there really isn't a UTI. I'm thinking next I'd like xrays for bladder/kidney stones, maybe an ultrasound then. I don't think the vet checked his prostate, either.

 

Could this be related to the dental extractions he had (9 teeth) about 2 weeks+ ago?

 

Still don't know for sure if the sporadic poop accidents are him or someone else. Don't think we can rule out neurological problems maybe? Not sure about orthopedic issues? Really confused. This is all so crazy mixed-up.

 

And the world seems to move in slow motion when I'm worried about a pup and want him to feel better *fast*.

[Guest Energy11]

I WISH I had some ideas on this. I guess to me, it was always neurological, which, of course, is hard to pin down.

 

Both neurological and orthopedic, could cause the frequent urination, too. UGH!

 

The fact that he isnt' walking "right," ... sends out a red flag to me for, either of the above conditions, too.

 

All I can say, is, AND, I KNOW this is hard, to take it day by day. Record the signs and symptoms you are seeing, so you have a journal for the vet. I know, I forget things that are very important, when I am in there with mine. This way, you might also see a pattern to these events.

 

Sending support, hugs, and prayers! Dee and The Five

[Guest SusanP]

thank you.

[krissn333]

Has he been screened for diabetes? Excessive urination can be a symptom of that. I'm not sure a thyroid issue would cause the peeing, although if he's lethargic, maybe he's just feeling too lazy to ask to go out? I'm grasping at straws. Hope you get some results soon!

[Guest SusanP]

Yes, I asked, and she said the bloodwork did not indicate diabetes or cushings. Her theory is that he could be feeling generally crummy/stressed due to the thyroid, leading to peeing. (And there have been some unusual but anonymous poop accidents,too, which we are thinking could be him, too, but aren't sure).

 

He's never too lazy to walk, (That's Wild-boy Spinner's schtick, believe it or not!) and Wiz usually is at the front of the pack when we are walking, no stopping to sniff or pee, just getting on with the walk.

 

Looking back, though, I think we may have done this whole thyroid thing last fall and it turned out he was ok.

 

So now I'm impatient with the delay and want to get him in quick for xray and urine culture. I have an appt Monday I can use--I made it so all 4 could get heartworm tests, but with the idea that I may use it for Wizard instead. I really want to get to the bottom of this fast.

 

It's interesting that he doesn't really need to pee at night. The accidents are all during the day.

[Batmom]

Can you tell if his water consumption has increased?

 

If nothing else turns up, might try giving him a pepcid (10mg famotidine) twice a day and see if that helps.