Worms Med

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

So one of my current fosters has worms. I called the vet to see if I could just swing by and pick up the appropriate medicine, they said I had to have an appt and bring in a stool sample. Ok, I understand they need money like every other business, but I am completely capable of diagnosing a case of worms in my hound when I see the poop with white moving worms that are about 3 times as long as a grain of rice and just as big around. Maybe they want to determine the "type" of worm? That is the only reason I can see why its needed. Ok, so lets give them a sample and bring in the hound for whatever they want, but when I asked on the phone if I could have 4 total doses (total number of hounds in my house) they said NO. I would have to wait until the worms show up in their excrement and then start the process over. This seems like they are trying to milk money out of my group unnecessarily. Does anyone have any input as to what to say to get them to fess up with multiple doses so I can dose my other hounds. Two of which are bonifide poo-eaters that have the poo-guard muzzles as proof.

 

Thanks

Chad

[ahicks51]

Howsabout an OTC wormer from the pet store?

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

I do have some OTC from the Farm & Fleet, cant remember the name of the stuff. It is "goat" wormer medicine, problem being as my foster Monster has been wormed 3 times in the last 3 months and they keep comming back. I was hoping the prescription strenght stuff from the vet would do the trick.

[Guest KennelMom]

Well, if it's tapes then there's no need to worm the other dogs. They get tapes from ingesting a flea, not from eating yard brownies. And, heck, a lot of the time poo samples will give a false negative, which every vet knows, so they just give you the de-wormer anyway. It's not like you're asking for ketamine...it's de-wormer for crying out loud!

 

That said, every vet is entitled to make their own policy. All I can say, is that our vet wouldn't waste our time or theirs (or our money) with something like this. It's one reason we love them and would be really hard pressed to change practices.

 

With a track dog, it's entirely likely they have other wormies, so as a matter of course we always de-worm new hounds with panacur. And it might be worth having a stool sample looked at, just for fun. Tapes we'll de-worm if we see them, but we get that from the vet b/c it's just not something ever really have to deal with often. You can get panacur at most farm supply stores.

[Guest EmilyandSioux]

Believe it or not it is illegal in most states to dispense even worm medications without the patient being seen. I know that is rediculous but they can over dose on it. I worked for a vet and we got yelled at all the time for that but we can't do anything about it.

[Wonder]

If they are tapes, I've never needed an appt or a sample- the vet just gave me the meds and no need to treat the other hounds

[Guest hlpnhounds]

Believe it or not it is illegal in most states to dispense even worm medications without the patient being seen. I know that is rediculous but they can over dose on it. I worked for a vet and we got yelled at all the time for that but we can't do anything about it.

 

This is true. It's still a medication that requires an exam to be dispensed. Refills do not always require an exam.

That said,

Take Monster in with a stool sample and talk to the DR about the issue NOT the reception staff. If you explain to the Dr what the situation is, I'm sure they will dispense the appropriate meds for the pets involved. On the other hand, if the others are on monthly Interceptor, they are not likely to pick up the "bugs" in the first place.

Keep in mind that the reception staff that you are likely speaking with do not make the decisions in dispensing meds. They have "rules" as to what they can and can't tell clients. The Dr makes the final decisions.

 

Also, keep in mind that there are few things that rub a vet staff the wrong way like an owner calling up with their own diagnosis telling the staff what they need and when to give it to them and how much tyvm. You'll get a lot farther by letting them do their job and answering your questions instead of meeting with a demanding client. Knowing what you want is all well and good.....we (as a vet staff) don't like to hear of people going to F&F for meds to give their dogs and then calling us demanding solutions when that does not work for them. Let them diagnose the actual problem and dispense the appropriate meds.

[Guest LindsaySF]

If you see the segments moving in the feces then they are flea tapeworms (Dipylidium caninum). KennelMom is right, they get it from eating infected fleas, so your current dogs are safe (unless you have fleas!) I would just buy some OTC dewormer. Something with praziquantel in it will get tapes. Good luck.

[Guest LindsaySF]

On the other hand, if the others are on monthly Interceptor, they are not likely to pick up the "bugs" in the first place.

Interceptor works on rounds, hooks, and whips. Won't prevent tapes.

[GreyAcresMom]

We went thru this. All my vet wanted was if they had never been seen by her, we had to bring in to get the weight of the dog. No charge except for the pills.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Does the group you're fostering for keep some meds on hand? I know a lot of groups worm all dogs coming into the program "just in case" and so that the nasties don't get passed along.

 

In most states it's a violation of law for a vet to dispense prescription medication to a dog he/she has not seen within the last year and/or treated for that condition. Across the board its an ethical violation. Amazingly, you'd think no one would turn you in for doing what the OP has asked, but people do (that's why I live with more dogs than people ).

 

It's not likely that tapes will pass to your other dogs. Even with the more easily passed worms (hooks and rounds), other dogs in the household with healthy immune systems should have the ability to fight off the worms. That's part of the reason they're so prevalent in puppies, who have unfinished immune systems, but not in adult dogs. Of course no one selling you Heartgard plus or interceptor is going to tell you that you're just dumping a monthly dose of poisons into your dog that 1) isn't actually what's "controlling" infestation at all, or 2) has the tendency to breed med-resistant varieties of worms. Why would they? It's a fabulous marketing ploy.

[Batmom]

Even with the more easily passed worms (hooks and rounds), other dogs in the household with healthy immune systems should have the ability to fight off the worms. That's part of the reason they're so prevalent in puppies, who have unfinished immune systems, but not in adult dogs.

 

 

Nope, immune system does not protect dogs from worms. The reason puppies have so many is -1- they're passed from the mother, -2- they eat poop, dirt, and other worm-containing things, and -3- they haven't been thoroughly wormed yet.

 

Don't know that my vet has required a visit for issuing me some Drontal, but I don't know that I've ever asked for it before they've seen the dog at least once.

[Guest Bean_Scotch]

My vet always wanted me to come in for an 'exam' no matter if I was just there 3 months before...it's totally ridiculous. That then began my 'online search for what I needed' and you can get Drontal and Panacur online with no precription required. A simple google search will get you all you need. Here's one place that sells it. http://www.dogbuffs.com/wormers

Here's one for Drontal. http://www.pet-supplies-inc.com/front.asp?pid=14 I've ordered from them for years and love the service!

 

Now thanks to their policy, they hardly ever see me, and when they do-somehow miraculously-my dogs are always healthy. Who'd a thunk?

[Guest hlpnhounds]

On the other hand, if the others are on monthly Interceptor, they are not likely to pick up the "bugs" in the first place.

Interceptor works on rounds, hooks, and whips. Won't prevent tapes.

 

 

Chad never said it was tapes.....someone else suggested that it might be tapes.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Even with the more easily passed worms (hooks and rounds), other dogs in the household with healthy immune systems should have the ability to fight off the worms. That's part of the reason they're so prevalent in puppies, who have unfinished immune systems, but not in adult dogs.

Nope, immune system does not protect dogs from worms. The reason puppies have so many is -1- they're passed from the mother, -2- they eat poop, dirt, and other worm-containing things, and -3- they haven't been thoroughly wormed yet.

 

Don't know that my vet has required a visit for issuing me some Drontal, but I don't know that I've ever asked for it before they've seen the dog at least once.

Yup.

 

Both hookworms and roundworms have the ability to be transmitted to the pups either in-utero or through the breastmilk.

 

Perfectly healthy dogs will still get worms (detectable upon fecal exam). The only difference is that worms don't cause as many symptoms/problems for immunocompetent individuals. Infection often goes undetected (unless there are simply so many worms they come out in the feces). The ability of worms/parasites to live in the host, yet not damage/kill the host, is essential to their life cycle.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Ok, we went to the vets last night. Took a sample in and had the confirmation that it is tapeworms. The vet gave my foster a good exam, asked a lot of questions about diet, weight, poor condition of his coat, etc. He (vet) thinks that my foster has probably had worms for quite a while since we have noticed worms a few times in the past, as well as the condition of his coat. He gave me a prescription of Panacur (double dose for foster). I was informed as to the growth cycle and transmittal of tapeworms so I am comfortable with not dosing my other hounds right now, I guess. Oh yea, I also got the "raw diet" lecture as I told them that I do feed raw a few times a week. What a joy to sit through. Thanks for all the input.

 

Chad

[Batmom]

Hoping he gave you something else, too? Regular Panacur (fenbendazole) doesn't kill common dog tapeworms. Maybe there's a "Panacur Plus" formulation out there?

[Guest hlpnhounds]

Chad I'm happy that there will be an end in sight. Panacur is what we are currently using to treat that nasal parasite that our foster was found to have !

Sorry you had to sit through the raw diet lecture Although the numbers are improving, many people that are attemptin to feed a raw diet don't do it correctly, as you know and the animals are not getting all that they need from the diet but that's a whole different thread.

 

In case you are having trouble getting Monster to take the Panacur (as it is quite bitter from what I understand) we mixed it in with baby food and gave it just before but seperate from the regular feeding. We were having difficulty getting Sis to eat well at the time and I didn't want her to associate the bitter taste with her food. The baby food seemed to do the trick !!

 

FYI--On label: Panacur C is for the treatment and control of Rounds, hooks, whips and tapes.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Panacur only works on Taenia species of tapeworms, not the flea tapeworm (Dipylidium caninum). If you see segments in the feces 9 times out of 10 you are dealing with the flea tapeworm. Panacur will not treat it.

 

It is so frustrating to me how few vets understand parasitology. (I'm getting my Master's in microbiology with a parasitology concentration, I actually argue with vets on a daily basis!)

 

Chad, you need a deworming med with praziquantel in it to treat Dipylidium caninum. (Praziquantel kills all tapes). Some OTC options are Droncit, Drontal, Drontal Plus, etc.

[Guest hlpnhounds]

Praziquantel it is then.

 

Many vets recommend starting with Panacur and then going on to Drontal or Droncit if that does not work. Knowing the background of many of these hounds, I agree it is likely that this problem is from fleas.

 

Sorry, my parasitology is a bit rusty as my area of practice in the veterinary field is ER/Critical Care. We don't do a lot with bugs and vaccines except with our own pets and that's primarily "preventative maintenance" so to speak.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

You know, I never looked at the label on the prescription bottle. Jen took the bottle from the vet and I "thought" he said Panacur. I could be wrong. I will check when I get home tonight. If it is plain ol' Panacur, I will find some OTC that has Praziquantel in it. Thanks for the SUPER FANTASTIC info. I now know more about tapeworms than I do about my own career field. =}

[Guest Swifthounds]

Nope, immune system does not protect dogs from worms. The reason puppies have so many is -1- they're passed from the mother, -2- they eat poop, dirt, and other worm-containing things, and -3- they haven't been thoroughly wormed yet.

 

Nothing actually "protects" a dog from worms. You can't prevent worms, only control infestation either naturally or artificially.

 

It is correct that many times worms are passed from mother to pups, either in utero or while nursing on breast milk. However, last I checked all dogs, not just puppies, eat poop, dirt, and other worm-containing things, but it's uncommon to see a healthy adult dog with a worm infestation. Unless you're worming with a variety of different wormers every 10-14 days, you're never going to have a dog (or person) completely free of intestinal parasites. Dogs constantly come in contact with dirt, feces, other dog noses, and assorted places and substances that harbor and transmit intestinal parasites, but not infested. The immune system and GI tract of a healthy dog will control parasite infestations, with no worming necessary.

 

There are plenty of adult dogs that have never been wormed and yet are not infested with intestinal worms.

[Guest longdogs]

Why don't you just go to one of our respectable Aussie online veterinary suppliers and buy a supply of 'all wormer' pills? These will deal with all types of tapes and intestinal worms and a supply will probably cost you less than a visit to the vet. They are safe and easy to use. Here, there is no requirement to get a prescription for such a basic treatment. Reasonable worming products can be bought from most supermarkets and pet stores and are just given routinely a few times per year. A good generic 'all wormer' is Paratak Plus. I've used it on my greys for years.