monmeehan Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 hi everyone, We had a tree in our backyard taken out today. When we set up the appointment, we asked that NO POISON be used on the stump, knowing that greys can be more sensitive to stuff than other dogs (and also not wanting poison IN MY YARD -- yecch). The guy DH talked to assured him that they wouldn't use a poison, instead they'd use some sort of plant growth hormone that would accelerate the stump using up its reserves, and killing it that way. I've never heard of such a thing, but it sounded ok to me. BUT! The 2 guys who actually took the tree down today used something called Ferti-Lome Brush Killer / Stump Killer. Call me weird, but I kinda doubt something called "Brush Killer" accelerates plant growth. Sigh. If I'd caught them in time, I would've told the tree guys to just leave the stump alone. I'd rather lop off sucker branch sprouts for a few years than have a bunch of toxic crap in my yard. The active ingredient is listed as: "Triclopyr (3, 5, 6-trichloro-2-Pyridinyloxyanetic acid), as the Triethylamine salt ---- 8.8%" I've searched GT, and aspca.org, I couldn't find anything about Triclopyr. Most of what I've been able to find online are white papers that say it's "slightly toxic" to birds and fish. Yeah, that's helpful. Here's the problem: normally Cheyenne has access to the yard while we're at work (dog door), but I don't want her out there unsupervised until I find out if this stuff is harmful or not. Right now, I'm planning to cover the stump with a weighted-down, staked-down trash bin or something, until I can get an answer from our vet. Cheyenne is pouting because she can't go out and chase teh kitteh that likes to sit on the wall and taunt her. Poor baby. Here are some pix I took of the bottle. Any chemists out there on GT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KF_in_Georgia Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) See here: http://www.fertilome.com/ProductDetails.aspx?prod=11485 Company's Web site. There's an information sheet (in PDF format) with health info on exposure on the second page of the sheet. And you could save the PDF and mail it to your vet if you need to. Here's the second page info on "acute exposure": (1) ACUTE OVEREXPOSURE EYE CONTACT: May cause severe irritation with corneal injury, which may result in permanent impairment of vision, even blindness. When tested on animals, dilution of this product was less irritating to eyes than the undiluted product. Vapors of triethylamine may cause swelling of the cornea resulting in visual disturbances such as blurred, smoky, or halo vision. SKIN CONTACT: Prolonged or repeated exposure may cause skin irritation, even a burn. When tested on animals, dilution of this product was less irritating to skin than the undiluted product. Prolonged or frequently repeated skin contact may cause allergic skin reactions in some individuals. With end-use dilution to 30% or more however, no allergic skin reaction has been observed. SKIN ABSORPTION: A single prolonged exposure is not likely to result in the material being absorbed through the skin in harmful amounts. INGESTION: Single dose oral toxicity is low. The oral LD50 was 2574 mg/kg for male rats and 1847 mg/kg for female rats. Small amounts swallowed incidental to normal handling operations are not likely to cause injury. Ingestion of large amounts may cause gastrointestinal irritation or ulceration. INHALATION: Based on animal data, short, single exposures to this formulation should pose no acute inhalation hazard. Edited June 10, 2009 by KF_in_Georgia Quote Kathy and Q (CRT Qadeer from Fuzzy's Cannon and CRT Bonnie) and Jane (WW's Aunt Jane from Trent Lee and Aunt M); photos to come. Missing Silver (5.19.2005-10.27.2016), Tigger (4.5.2007-3.18.2016), darling Sam (5.10.2000-8.8.2013), Jacey-Kasey (5.19.2003-8.22.2011), and Oreo (1997-3.30.2006) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetdogs Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 This is a job for ahicks - AJ, what say you? Quote Deirdre with Conor (Daring Pocobueno), Keeva (Kiowa Mimi Mona), & kittehs Gemma & robthomas. Our beloved angels Faolin & Liath, & kittehs Mona & Caesar. Remembering Bobby, Doc McCoy, & Chip McGrath. "He feeds you, pets you, adores you, collects your poop in a bag. There's only one explanation: you are a hairy little god." Nick Galifinakis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monmeehan Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) hi KF, yeah, I saw that, too, but it's not really very specific. I mean, it sounds like it would be ok, but it's from the company's website, knowhatimsayin'? Not that I think they're trying to whitewash their product either, it's just that our sweet, crazy greys are so SENSITIVE! Guess it's trashcan-and-talk-to-the-vet-tomorrow time. Teh neighbor kitteh iz safe for now. Edited June 10, 2009 by monmeehan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahicks51 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Any organic molecule with more than its fair share of chlorines gives me the willies. Low acute toxicity, low chance of it being a carcinogen, mutagen, teratogen... Looks fairly safe. http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/triclopy.htm "Rapidly eliminated via urine," entirely unchanged. Not a problem for fish, birds, or bees. But the half-life in soils is pretty long- 1 to 3 months, meaning it'll be there for 8 months to 2 years. "Dioxin impurities do not appear in triclopyr," unlike its cousin 2,4,5-T which was banned. The MSDS doesn't mention a synergist typically added to the stuff (2,4-D, a growth regulator herbicide that should be avoided with dogs), so that's good. I wouldn't be happy with 'em. Stump grinding is a better way to get rid of that sort of thing, but I can't find fault with their choice, provided the ecological data is correct. And that's the sticking point for many compounds: if I pay a lab to tell me 2,4-D is safe or not with dogs, and I make the stuff for a living, guess what they're gonna find? Can't trust a lot of stuff anymore. Peer review has gone to crap. Quote Coco (Maze Cocodrillo) Minerva (Kid's Snipper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 The quote above is from the MSDS, an official document, the whole of which is here: http://www.fertilome.com/products/MSDS/11485.pdf Absent info from ahicks, to whom I'd defer, I'd probably put up a temporary fence with a couple feet clearance around the stump, water the heck out of it, and leave the fence up until it's also rained a couple times. ETA: OK, ahicks, so what would you do if it were in your yard? Scenario 1: Doggie does not chew on stumps or eat dirt from around stump. Scenario 2: Doggie does chew on stumps or eat dirt from around stump. Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahicks51 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 The quote above is from the MSDS, an official document, the whole of which is here: http://www.fertilome.com/products/MSDS/11485.pdf Absent info from ahicks, to whom I'd defer, I'd probably put up a temporary fence with a couple feet clearance around the stump, water the heck out of it, and leave the fence up until it's also rained a couple times. ETA: OK, ahicks, so what would you do if it were in your yard? Scenario 1: Doggie does not chew on stumps or eat dirt from around stump. Scenario 2: Doggie does chew on stumps or eat dirt from around stump. Either way, it'd be cheap and easy to get some cheapo fencing from Home Depot and put it around, same deal as you said. If worried suckers will come up from a stump, it's easy enough to put clear plastic sheeting over it, weigh down the corners with bricks, and just cook anything green that might come up. July's coming! Quote Coco (Maze Cocodrillo) Minerva (Kid's Snipper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monmeehan Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) Thanks for all the responses, everyone! We decided to try blocking it off somehow. So we upended our metal firepit insert (big metal bowl) over the stump, then put a bunch of chicken wire over the top, weighted it down with firewood logs and the upside-down firepit legs, and topped the whole shebang off with the firepit spark screen, balanced precariously on top. That way, if Cheyenne starts poking around there it will fall and A] make noise + startle her and B] let us know she's been poking around. We're really lucky that she's not very ambitious about getting into non-food-related things. I'll post some photos tomorrow -- the whole getup is hilariously ghetto. ahicks: re: suckers: I have no doubt there will be suckers, even with the stump killer. Dealing with just suckers would be preferable to dealing with both suckers AND herbicide. >sigh< Edited June 10, 2009 by monmeehan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KF_in_Georgia Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Thanks for all the responses, everyone! We decided to try blocking it off somehow. So we upended our metal firepit insert (big metal bowl) over the stump, then put a bunch of chicken wire over the top, weighted it down with firewood logs and the upside-down firepit legs, and topped the whole shebang off with the firepit spark screen, balanced precariously on top. That way, if Cheyenne starts poking around there it will fall and A] make noise + startle her and B] let us know she's been poking around. We're really lucky that she's not very ambitious about getting into non-food-related things. Just make sure it's stable enough that it can't fall and injure her. It wouldn't take much for her to get cut. If it was my house--and my klutzy dog--I think I'd leash-walk until I had time to erect an entirely safe barricade. (My klutzy boy would have run into the bare stump and hurt himself, so I'd have had to insist on a chipped stump in the first place...) Quote Kathy and Q (CRT Qadeer from Fuzzy's Cannon and CRT Bonnie) and Jane (WW's Aunt Jane from Trent Lee and Aunt M); photos to come. Missing Silver (5.19.2005-10.27.2016), Tigger (4.5.2007-3.18.2016), darling Sam (5.10.2000-8.8.2013), Jacey-Kasey (5.19.2003-8.22.2011), and Oreo (1997-3.30.2006) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest knitkass Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I think that's the smart thing to do, monmeehan, An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Can't wait to see this ghetto-riffic assembly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Energy11 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I wouldn't take any chances, either. I'f fence it it with some of cheaop plastic fencing, which you can get at Walmart or Lowes, .... Trash can over it sounds good, too! Good Luck with this! D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monmeehan Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Well, as promised, here's our ghetto-licious contraption for keeping Cheyenne out of the stump area. It's doing the job, but please feel free to mock our craptacular setup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greyt_dog_lover Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Nice, would you be available for hire as my new landscaper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monmeehan Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Sure! Notice how I'm KNOT showing any of the rest of my yard in that photo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TBSFlame Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Well, as promised, here's our ghetto-licious contraption for keeping Cheyenne out of the stump area. It's doing the job, but please feel free to mock our craptacular setup! Looks like art to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monmeehan Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Looks like art to me. I call it Untitled 4: Rhapsody in Ferti-Lome Firepit Hmmmm... Santa Fe is the third biggest art market in the US... think I can convince some rich Texas tourist to buy it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahicks51 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Separated at birth? Quote Coco (Maze Cocodrillo) Minerva (Kid's Snipper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrskasMom Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Who cares ,what it looks like as long as the Pup is safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Greyt_dog_lover Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Separated at birth? 2 man enter, ONE man leave. Chant with me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monmeehan Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Separated at birth? 2 man enter, ONE man leave. Chant with me... Who cares ,what it looks like as long as the Pup is safe Quite right! Thanks, everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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