Ibd Therapy Poll

[ahicks51]

There are a number of papers floating around out there about helminth (worm) therapy for management of a variety of human diseases. The nice thing is they're cheap, and require no meds. On the down side, you creep out anyone you tell about 'em, and.... well, that's about it. (Most people would be grossed out of existence if they could see the other stuff that NORMALLY lives in their guts- worms don't even measure up.) A limited number (~10-20) of carefully selected species of worms cause virtually no harm to the host, but can cause dramatic relief of symptoms for a variety of diseases.

 

While doing research on this, I discovered Ancylostoma caninum is remarkably similar to those species used with humans, and would be well-suited to use in dogs except for the fact that the host would be re-infected every time it stepped out into a contaminated yard, requiring assiduous cleaning of the area after every poop. Most people don't want to do that, I was informed, but the question I put forth to those of you managing hounds with touchy guts: given the choice between a sick dog or a sick dog managed by meds, or a dog whose poop needs to be treated as toxic (picked up, sprayed with bleach) that is relatively healthy- which would you choose?

 

Note that while other worms may be highly objectionable and even... show up at bad times, nematodes like Ancylostoma caninum do not multiply in numbers within the host, and neither the owners nor the host would know they're there without microscopic examination of the poop.

 

Now. Let's see if I did this poll right.

[Greytlady94]

Interesting, I've not seen this before. I have an IBD dog on four meds and I pick up poop and wash off every time anyway, so the only thing additional would be the bleach.

[KF_in_Georgia]

For me, the constant clean-up would not be possible. I live in a condo complex. If I walk my dog and it poops, am I hauling clean-up gear, bottles, etc.? And what about when my dog is away from home? And would the poop from one dog endanger another dog?

 

And what about when you board your dog? Will boarding facilities put up with the extra work?

 

For me, it's not about the worms. Or about having to clean up. (Since I'm in a condo, there's no place my dogs poop that I don't have to do pick-up.) It's about the impossibility of containing the contamination.

[Batmom]

Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, but that's hookworms, which DO multiply and which often cause chronic diarrhea.

[ahicks51]

Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, but that's hookworms, which DO multiply and which often cause chronic diarrhea.

 

Well, it's *a* hookworm (there are a few- genus Ancylostoma and genus Uncinaria), and unless I've really screwed up on the life cycle, they don't multiply within the host. They throw LOTS of eggs (tens of thousands), but they do not hatch within the host. They require re-infection from the environment, which is trivial as usually the dogs poop all over the place, and the eggs hatch out and the larvae come in through contact with the ground. If one cleaned up afterwards, this wouldn't be an issue (although it would be very difficult).

 

Large numbers will cause D, yes; a small number of helminths may be undetectable, and many animals would be asymptomatic- until, of course, the eggs in the yard hatched out, the dog trotted around the yard, and picked up more. Hence the need to be reeeeeealy careful about picking up every last critter. Or living in a climate where the eggs can't hatch and live. The life cycle of A. caninum, as I understand it:

 

[Guest zoolaine]

My main concern would be for my 4 other dogs and if they could get infected???? I would need more information before deciding.

[Batmom]

Clearing a hookworm infestation is a miserable process. Partly because they encyst, partly because it's really hard to clean anything but a laboratory environment well enough to prevent reinfestation. Especially when the dog is likely to have diarrhea. Just does not sound like a good idea to me.

 

Altho it's certainly academically interesting. Many kennel/farm dogs are going to have hooks, and most of them don't seem to have anything like IBD until some time after they're adopted ........................

[ahicks51]

It may be tougher to clear an animal with hundreds or thousands of hooks, but if there were only 10-15, it should be considerably easier. I have no proof, but I suspect dogs affected with a limited number of hookworms would have no D. Once you get up into numbers that would be characteristic of infestation (again, hundreds or thousands)- yeah. D, and lots of it.

 

Anyway- that's the crux of the problem (preventing heavier infestations by cleaning up), which is why I provided that caveat in the poll.

[Guest kydie]

I have no problem with this form of treatment, but I to have 3 other dogs, and I do clean up right away, but would worry about the other pups, I am open for anything, that would help him

[MaryJane]

Maybe I missed it in the thread - but how do hookworms figure in the equation for IBD?

[Guest mandm]

Given the choice of turning out a Pred medicated dog every 90 minutes round the clock vs cleaning up every poop, which anyone who has ever had a poopeater does anyway . . . bring on the worms. I may be an oddball, but I think immunosuppressives are way creepier than worms.

 

Many kennel/farm dogs are going to have hooks, and most of them don't seem to have anything like IBD until some time after they're adopted ........................

Just my wacky theory that it is the hooks (or whips) combined with the trauma of vetting and radical diet change that do their guts in.

Edited June 9, 2009 by mandm

[ahicks51]

Maybe I missed it in the thread - but how do hookworms figure in the equation for IBD?

 

That gets complex, but it deals with Th1/Th2 immunity (Th for "helper T cell"). Th1 immune response deals with inflammation and all kinds of ugliness that results in a backlash against the body. Th2 immune response is encouraged by the worms. The cytokines (which ultimately produce the inflammation) involved in these reactions are mutually contradictory- they cancel each other out. As a result, the Th2 immune response once the worms are in place will counter the Th1 immune response that is being caused by... whatever the heck is causing the autoimmune response.

 

Plus, they work to decrease environmental allergy response. Probably something to do with IgE.