Billy Isn't Eating......

[Guest houndlover]

Billy has stopped eating. I don't even know what I am going to do. He ate very little yesterday and even less today. He had been doing so much better on the Tylosin powder and new RX canned food that my vet had him on. His poop was even getting better but now he just won't eat. He ate 2oz of boiled chicken today......that's it! I have tried to offer him Ensure, rice, more chicken, dog cookies, canned dog food, kibble, lunch meat, baby food and he won't eat any of them. He isn't drinking much either although he is urinating several times a day so he must be drinking when I'm not home. Any other suggestions on what I should do or what I could feed him?

 

He is still getting up and greeting me at the door when I come home but show no excitement. He seems very depressed the last couple of days too.

 

I do have a call into the vet but haven't heard from her. I probably won't hear anything tonite but I will call again in the morning. I am so worried. These past few months have been such a struggle with Billy. I feel like we get one thing under control and something else happens.

[RobinM]

What tests have been done? If he has food allergies, it could be to chicken, beef and rice. Many dogs with food intolerance are.

 

 

[Guest houndlover]

Would a food allergy cause loss of appetite? I have had an ultrasound, TLI, serum folate and cobalamin, panacur, giardia. I'm sure that there is more but I just can't remember everything right now.

Edited May 2, 2009 by houndlover

[greyhead]

When did he last get some B-12? That affects appetite and everything to do with the nervous system, like mood and activity too.

 

I've always fears that Tylan wasn't strong enough for him. You never said which germ it was, but you did say he had "way, way, way" too many of them, as I remember. Tylan is a very weak antibiotic. If your vet didn't use the C&S to determine which antibiotics that particular germ was sensitive to (susceptible to being killed by), and instead just threw tylosin at it because that's where many people start, it might have helped briefly because it was better than nothing. But if the medicine doesn't really fit the germ, all the germs aren't going to die. Which bacterium was it?

 

And if the germ infection doesn't go away, you can easily wind up with IBD, which is a very big deal. I could be way off here, but you seem lost, and that's what I think, for whatever it's worth.

[RobinM]

Would a food allergy cause loss of appetite? I have had an ultrasound, TLI, serum folate and cobalamin, panacur, giardia. I'm sure that there is more but I just can't remember everything right now.

 

yes, food allergies can cause havoc on the stomach.

 

Beau is intolerant of basically everything which is why he is on a hypoallergenic food. The protein in the food is hydrolized which means it's predigested and it "tricks" his system so that he can tolerate it.

 

I would try the z/d AND NOTHING and I mean NOTHING else, but z/d dry, wet and the cookies they make. If that does not work, it's time for meds that reduce inflammation, such as pred or budesenide.

 

 

[robinw]

i feel your pain. i've been having the same struggle with Loca. try Medi-cal Recovery Formula. i bought it at the vet's office. it's foul but at least Loca will eat it.

[CaliforniaGreys]

The only thing Misty has been eating is the boiled chicken, she wouldn't touch the rice but when I poured low sodium chicken broth over it and warmed it she did eat it.

And the only other thing that worked was the white baked Tilapia fish, and scrabled eggs.

 

I sure hope you find something. We're keeping you both in our prayers

Edited May 2, 2009 by cbudshome

[Batmom]

Is he getting something like Pepcid to help his tummy? Normal dose is 1 regular-strength Pepcid (10mg famotidine - the generic is fine, and dirt cheap) 30-40 minutes before you plan to feed, twice a day.

[Guest houndlover]

When did he last get some B-12?

 

If your vet didn't use the C&S to determine which antibiotics that particular germ was sensitive to (susceptible to being killed by), and instead just threw tylosin at it because that's where many people start, it might have helped briefly because it was better than nothing. But if the medicine doesn't really fit the germ, all the germs aren't going to die. Which bacterium was it?

 

And if the germ infection doesn't go away, you can easily wind up with IBD, which is a very big deal. I could be way off here, but you seem lost, and that's what I think, for whatever it's worth.

 

The last time he had a B-12 injection was a month ago. I will ask the vet about it today when I talk to her.

 

I don't know what the C&S is and I'm not sure if the vet used it or not. We were unable to determine what type of bacterium it is that Billy has. We have tested for several (none of which I can remember right now) and all came back within normal range.

 

Would a food allergy cause loss of appetite? I have had an ultrasound, TLI, serum folate and cobalamin, panacur, giardia. I'm sure that there is more but I just can't remember everything right now.

 

yes, food allergies can cause havoc on the stomach.

 

Beau is intolerant of basically everything which is why he is on a hypoallergenic food. The protein in the food is hydrolized which means it's predigested and it "tricks" his system so that he can tolerate it.

 

I would try the z/d AND NOTHING and I mean NOTHING else, but z/d dry, wet and the cookies they make. If that does not work, it's time for meds that reduce inflammation, such as pred or budesenide.

 

I would be fine with trying that type of food and I know that my vet carries it b/c I have seen it on the shelves. I have no idea how I would get him to start eating it though. He really isn't eating anything at all right now. I had to pill him this morning and I always put meat baby food on the pill so it will slide down easier and then give him a couple of teaspoons of baby food to "wash it down" and he wouldn't even eat the baby food.

 

What are the cons of trying the pred if I don't have a definite dx of IBD?

 

i feel your pain. i've been having the same struggle with Loca. try Medi-cal Recovery Formula. i bought it at the vet's office. it's foul but at least Loca will eat it.

 

Thanks. I will ask about this food too.

[RobinM]

Here is part of an email that was sent to me by a UPENN vet when I was considering doing that.

 

If I had to do it again, I would do it without the surgery. But here it is:

 

We spoke

> briefly about a potential trial of low dose pred. If you

> absolutely

> refused to biopsy, I would be ok trying it, with the

> understanding

> that it may not work and you still may have to biopsy. The risk

> in

> trying this first is that, if you do end up taking biopsies, and

> they

> return positive for lymphoma, the chance of chemotherapy working

> is

> decreased as a result of starting the animal on pred before the

> first

> dose of chemo. This is very well documented in the veterinary

> oncology literature. I don't want to scare you into thinking he

> has

> lympho. This is not nearly as common as IBD, but I have to warn

> you

> of all the potential consequences of our actions. Sometimes

> trying

> to be non-invasive is not benign.

>

 

[Guest houndlover]

Here is part of an email that was sent to me by a UPENN vet when I was considering doing that.

 

If I had to do it again, I would do it without the surgery. But here it is:

 

We spoke

> briefly about a potential trial of low dose pred. If you

> absolutely

> refused to biopsy, I would be ok trying it, with the

> understanding

> that it may not work and you still may have to biopsy. The risk

> in

> trying this first is that, if you do end up taking biopsies, and

> they

> return positive for lymphoma, the chance of chemotherapy working

> is

> decreased as a result of starting the animal on pred before the

> first

> dose of chemo. This is very well documented in the veterinary

> oncology literature. I don't want to scare you into thinking he

> has

> lympho. This is not nearly as common as IBD, but I have to warn

> you

> of all the potential consequences of our actions. Sometimes

> trying

> to be non-invasive is not benign.

>

 

Thanks for the info. I would not be doing chemo if this were lymphoma anyways so I guess that it wouldn't matter if I did the pred or not. I will not do the biopsy either.

 

[greyhead]

I don't know what the C&S is and I'm not sure if the vet used it or not. We were unable to determine what type of bacterium it is that Billy has. We have tested for several (none of which I can remember right now) and all came back within normal range.

This is your prior post that I was remembering:

I just got off the phone with the vet. His TLI came back negative but the test for bacterial overgrowth came back very, very, very high. She said that she is going to order Tylosin and it should be in tomorrow.

 

In the meantime, Claire is bringing him to the vet right now so that they can start him on iv fluids and iv antibiotics. The vet also said something about IV therapy for his kidneys b/c one of the test showed that he had a problem with his kidneys. I didn't quite follow what she was saying about his kidneys but I will get more info on that later. She is going to send out a stool sample to be cultured.

 

I think that is all for now. Keep sending the good thoughts and prayers....I think they are working.

It's confusing -- for me as well as you, I'm sure! So they found bacterial overgrowth somewhere somehow, but the specific bacterium didn't show up when the stool sample was cultured. Maybe you could ask the vet how they tested for bacterial overgrowth and why there might be such a discrepancy between that and the poop culture. (If need be, tell her I AM crazy to know! ) It just seems in that gap of information is an answer you're going to need.

 

Prayers and hugs,

Mary

[greyhead]

It just occurs to me to mention that prednisone is not your only option. We're starting Spencer on budesonide, a different immunosuppressant, the action of which is confined to the GI tract and without the potentially long list of side effects that pred has (e.g., excessive hunger, thirst, elimination; and those are the more benign side effects). It's costing around $35 for a month's supply, so it's more expensive. Worth it to us because in addition to those considerations, Spencer didn't improve on pred and dropped a lot of weight fast.

 

Pred works for some dogs, so I'm not suggesting you not use it. But wanted you to know there are alternatives so you can think about it and ask your vet.

 

ETA: Ditto what Batmom said about Pepcid. There's nothing like excess stomach acid to spoil an appetite!

Edited May 2, 2009 by greyhead

[Guest jurishound]

Sorry to hear that Billy isn't feeling well. I wish I had a magic wand . . .

Good wishes coming Billy's way . . .

[Batmom]

Worth trying a low dose of pred just for the appetite-increasing effects. Should have pepcid (or carafate or similar) with any steroid. Fingers crossed you can get your boy eating again.

[Guest lovemyhounds]

I am sorry Billy isn't feeling well. Our Callie is on medication for liver problems and often refuses her Hills L/D dog food. We have had success getting her to eat following; seasoned chicken (sometimes when she refused it seasoned one way, she will eat it seasoned another way and if the need arises we may try ground chicken which our grocery can order for us), rice, eggs cooked various ways (sometimes with a bit of cheese), yogurt, cottage cheese, apples, carrots, banana, kix cereal, oatmeal, bread (various), whole wheat goldfish crackers and Club multi-grain crackers (lower in fat and sodium than most crackers). I know crackers and cereal may sound odd but because Callie has liver problems her protein has to be limited so when she refuses rice with her protein, we try cereal or crackers fed prior to the protein and she seems to enjoy the variety and crunch. Also, Callie may refuse something one meal and love it the next so her choice in foods is very unpredictable, my point being that just because she refuses it one time, doesn't mean she won't eat it the next. I hope you can find something that Billy will enjoy eating and that he gets to feeling better.

[Guest houndlover]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I did give Billy some pepcid this afternoon and have tried to offer him several other things to eat but still no luck. I am concerned that he doesn't seem to be drinking much either. I am keeping a close eye on him and have talked to the vet. She suggests another abdominal ultrasound to see if anything has changed. She did not want to do pred just yet (but said that she would if I really wanted her to) b/c it suppresses the immune system. She was going to order the Medi Cal Recovery Formula but suggested that I try Hills A/D in the meantime. At this point, I really don't care what he eats as long as he starts eating again.

[robinw]

She was going to order the Medi Cal Recovery Formula but suggested that I try Hills A/D in the meantime. At this point, I really don't care what he eats as long as he starts eating again.

the Medi-Cal really has seemed to do the trick. i have to warn you...the farts (and there will be many) smell exactly like the food

[duncan41]

Sure hope something works and soon for poor Billy! Has there been any mention of budesonide for his GI issues? Sending prayers for Billy and hugs for you.

[Guest houndlover]

Sure hope something works and soon for poor Billy! Has there been any mention of budesonide for his GI issues? Sending prayers for Billy and hugs for you.

 

No, we had not talked about this drug but we had talked about pred and the vet doesn't want to start that just yet b/c it can suppress his immune system. I know that budesonide has less side effects than pred but is there any other difference in the 2 meds?

 

Billy did eat something tonite. I was so relieved, although it wasn't much. He was interested when I was getting the other dogs dinner ready and came into the kitchen. I offered him several things to eat and he finally decided to eat boiled chicken. He still has explosive diarrhea but isn't vomiting. I will touch base with my vet in the am and ask her about the budesonide and I had a few other questions to ask her that greyhead had mentioned.

 

Thanks again for your suggestions and concern. I really appreciate any advice that I can get right now as I am still feeling very overwhelmed at times.

 

 

She was going to order the Medi Cal Recovery Formula but suggested that I try Hills A/D in the meantime. At this point, I really don't care what he eats as long as he starts eating again.

the Medi-Cal really has seemed to do the trick. i have to warn you...the farts (and there will be many) smell exactly like the food

 

As gross as this might sound.....I would be happy to deal with smelly farts as long as I knew he was eating something!

[Batmom]

If you think he has IBD, you'll have to be careful with his diet.

 

If he has something else, some things that have worked at various times here include: freshly scrambled eggs, freshly poached chicken livers, anything a person happens to be eating that a dog sniffs at (peanutbutter sandwich, Lean Cuisine sesame chicken), cinnamon bread, graham crackers, Tripett (or Solid Gold Green Cow Tripe), spaghettios, anything with a little honey, molasses, vanilla ice cream, or vanilla yogurt drizzled on top. IIRC one of RobinM's pups had a thing for crunchy granola bars for awhile. Many people also resort to canned jack mackerel (cheap and smelly - a perfect combo) or canned tuna.

 

One thing that often helps here with liquid poop is half a metamucil wafer twice a day. Again, you might not want to try that if you think he has IBD. Some bowel disease is fiber-responsive, and some not.

 

Sending more hugs.

[RobinM]

If you think he has IBD, you'll have to be careful with his diet.

 

No truer words have been said,. I was pushing chicken and rice/beef and rice on Beau prior to diagnosis unaware that I was slowly getting him sicker and sicker (he was down to 52 pounds) from food he LOVED but was intolerant to.

 

If your vet will not start on the pred or budesinode, try the zd dry or wet or both with NOTHING and i mean nothing else. try putting the kibble in a kong and refill as necessary if possible.

 

He can't have an intolerance to this food. It's hypoallergenic and it has a hydrolized protein. It's worth the try.