Ringworm

[Guest CyndiW]

I was dx last week with scalp ringworm. I teach special ed so I just assumed that I must have picked it up at school. However, my students have been checked 3 times and none of them show any signs. We started looking at our Alex closer because when he came home from the hospital after being septic he was covered in scabs from where is skin bled through from many complications. When they fell off, he had lots of bald places and we didn't think anything about it. Now we are wondering if he has ringworm that is causing some of these bald places. He has about 10-12 suspicious places and cultures were sent off yesterday to see if anything is growing. She said this could take a few days or up to 3 weeks so see anything. My husband and all of the other dogs remain clear.

 

In the meantime, we cannot treat him systemically because most of the oral anti-fungals are hard on the liver and his liver is still recovering from the infection and pancreatitis. I am on oral terbinafine for 30 days. After reading many old posts on ringworm, I am wondering if the bleach treatment would be our best option because he has so many areas. I have used it on his places a few times already and also some terbinafine cream (Lamisil). Our vets have recommended the lime sulfur dips but no one in our town (vet or groomer) wants to do them because of the mess and possibility of contamination. He bites us so I know doing them at home is not an option. We already keep our home very clean but after reading some info on ringworm spores, I am fearful that we will never be able to rid our home of this and recontamination. Any experience or advice on treatments will be greatly appreciated. I am leaning toward the bleach treatments because he seems to tolerate them fairly well but I just want to make sure they are going to be effective.

[Guest longdogs]

It may sound odd but antifreeze (ethylene glycol type, not methanol based) is a very effective fungicide applied topically. The one major problem is toxicity. You must be careful no animal gets to it because cats in particular like its sweet taste and will drink it, leading to wrecked kidneys. If you swab the ringworm thoroughly with a soaked cotton bud or lump of cotton-wool, then carefully wipe the residue from the fur, any remainder that gets licked off shouldn't be enough to hurt. You need undiluted ethylene glycol, found in concentrated antifreeze if you can't buy plain ethylene glycol. The antifreeze usually has a lurid dye but it doesn't seem to matter. It works for difficult 'athlete's foot' also. As a student I listened to a fungus expert telling of his experience in curing a bad case of tropical 'crotch rot' this way. The eye-watering process involved an egg-cup and much hilarity. Enough said.

[Batmom]

Really best to NOT use bleach on your dog's skin. Ask your vet about other topical treatments if pup does turn out to have ringworm.

[Guest jurishound]

Really best to NOT use bleach on your dog's skin.

 

Or antifreeze, which is indeed highly toxic.

Edited October 28, 2007 by jurishound

[Guest snowberry]

I'm in the UK, so the names of drugs I know might be different - we went through this when our cat caught ringworm. For your dog, you can buy antifungal creams (for humans) from your pharmacy with clotrimazole or miconazole. (Stuff we used was called Daktarin.) These are pretty effective, and take four-six weeks to completely clear up the scaly patches - you have to treat for a week or so AFTER they've gone to make sure the fungus is dead.

 

Scalp ringworm on humans does need oral drugs, but you shouldn't need that for dogs, the over-the-counter human cream is fine. The stuff we had from the vets for the cat was exactly the same as we bought from the chemists for us, but with a different label.

 

Please please don't let your dogs anywhere near ethylene glycol, even tiny amounts are fatal!

Edited October 28, 2007 by snowberry

[Guest longdogs]

Or antifreeze, which is indeed highly toxic.

But not in the quantities involved here.

[Guest Tenderhearts]

My vet had a client use the bleach solution (1 part bleach to 10 parts water) very effectively on a GSD with ringworm

 

 

[Guest meakah]

Just wanted to add....the sun does wonders for ringworm! Not joking....lots and lots of sun will help heal ringworm.

 

I would also give him a Betadine bath and then treat with an antifungal cream. I have never used bleach so I can't help you there.

 

ETA: re: his biting....can you muzzle him? I have heard lime sulfur dips are quite effective so if you can find a place to do and muzzle him...I would definitely consider it.

Edited October 28, 2007 by meakah

[Guest CyndiW]

Just wanted to add....the sun does wonders for ringworm! Not joking....lots and lots of sun will help heal ringworm.

 

I would also give him a Betadine bath and then treat with an antifungal cream. I have never used bleach so I can't help you there.

 

ETA: re: his biting....can you muzzle him? I have heard lime sulfur dips are quite effective so if you can find a place to do and muzzle him...I would definitely consider it.

 

 

We do muzzle him when we have to give him a bath but he still fights us hard. Anytime he goes anywhere for care, we muzzle so no one gets hurt. If the culture comes back positive for ringworm, I will be begging someone to do the dips. In the meantime, I am washing his places in the kitchen with the bleach solution and then applying antifungal cream just in case.

 

I am really hoping that he does not have ringworm. He lays in the sun everyday that the sun is out. He goes to the back of the house to get morning sun from those windows and then to the front of the house for afternoon/evening sun. With all of that sun, it seems hard to believe that he would even have any fungus. I am wondering if that his why he has some bald places but no red, scaly, or itchy places.

[Guest sorenkkg]

Hi All,

 

Haka just got a DNA test back on these crusty scabs he's had since December and it is positive for ringworm (we don't know the species, yet? maybe ever? is that important?)

 

The vet gave us Hexadene shampoo for some topical treatment (no creams) and pills to take 2x a day for a month (ketoconazole I believe).

 

questions:

 

1) I asked the vet-- will this interfere with his dental scheduled for the 27th. Vet is unsure, but we can postpone giving him the pills until after the procedure, just in case.

 

2) how contagious is this, really? I've read all the posts here on GT and here's the thing-- Aleeya is asymptomatic, as are DH and myself. The dogs sometimes share a bed, we all share the couch (the dogs do not sleep in the human bed though).

The vet is not going to treat Aleeya unless/until she shows symptoms, which I'm ok with-- he said it's opportunistic, and her immune system is maybe stronger than his is, so she can fight it off?

 

Since this has been going on since December (when I first noticed the scabs... everyone said no no, that's not ringworm ) I feel it's sort of pointless to go around being super crazy right now... is that totally wrong?

 

3) I've read here about various OTC human creams for fungus stuff like athlete's foot and yeast infections (tinactin, monostat, etc)-- I wouldn't do bleach, and I do plan on giving him the pills, but I think he'd tolerate a cream more than some spot shampoo treatments (the Hexadene)-- he REALLY hates any form of bathing other than rain...

 

Any advice appreciated!

[GreyKarma]

Oh boy do I feel for you. A couple of years ago the kitten my daughter rescued had it. Despite all she and I both got it, as well as the other cats. Then I found the Health Guard Products.

 

You might want to check out the website for healthguardproducts.com. They make a laundry additive that you put in the rinse water. It can also be made into a spray. They also have shampoos and lotions.

 

Their products were developed when they used to breed and show persians. She is very nice to talk to and I really feel the stuff helped.

 

Carol

[Guest sorenkkg]

Just thought I'd update this thread in case anyone else needs the info in the future... I hope not, but that's unrealistic eh?

 

Ok-- the vet called today to give me more information (the vet who called with the results was just the one on duty, the one calling today is "our" vet).

 

1) we have to cancel the dental Haka was going to have, and start his oral meds asap. Because the fungus is "opportunistic" and the fact he has it seems to indicate his immune system is not 100% for some unknown reason (all blood tests and thyroid are a-ok!) she does not want to take any chance with anesthetic or any oral surgery (which I'm sure he won't need). So we put that off for a month.

 

2) I mentioned we were treating topically with "tinactin" and she suggested the drug in other anti-fungals (miconazole) would be better.

 

3) however, she gave us a solution to make up, Imaverol (5ml in 500ml water) and we have to spray BOTH dogs (aleeya is asymptomatic, but can be a carrier) until they are quite soaked. Air dry. No licking while wet.

1x a day for 7 days, then 2x a week for a couple weeks.

 

4) we can use that same solution to spray on things we cannot spray with a dilute bleach solution (2% was recommended). Obviously, fabric test first.

Wash everything, and vaccum every couple days for 2 weeks at least.

 

The fungus is actually carried in the fur so that's what must be cleaned, saturated etc.

if they were long-hair dogs (i swear Haka is though) we could shave the affected areas, but since most of his are on his head/ears we don't have to in his case.

 

We were also given Immuno Support capsules (vitamins for dogs?) to help boost his immune system.

 

5) finally, he has to take his pills (ketoconazole) 2x a day, and they apparently are absorbed better in a slightly acidic environment (she said tomato juice if it were a person...) so I'm trying yogurt, just a tsp mixed with his crushed pill (he really hates swallowing pills whole) and some liver treat crushed in.

I hope he does ok on them-- apparently there is stronger medication, but it's very hard on the system (and very expensive?)

 

Fingers crossed for our Haka man...

Soren

[Guest sorenkkg]

I found a good source of info-- I'm sure there's lots, but for some reason, I'm not finding what I really needed, so here is what I found:

 

general inf

 

http://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2008/10/a...any-other-name/

 

really good info on what to do to clean up-- I"m usin Imaverol all over the place! Hope we nuke this thing OUT OF HERE!

 

http://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2008/10/a...-2-cleaning-up/

[Guest LindsaySF]

Those 5 steps sound like a great plan. Good luck!

 

[Guest Winterwish]

You're doing a great job handling it! Sending good wishes to Haka for getting better and that Aleeya be free of it too.

[Guest Redpack]

Lotrimin cream.

[Guest sorenkkg]

Hi All-- thought I'd update the saga here

 

Finished the ketoconazole on Sunday, had the checkup with the vet this morning, but I knew how it would go and it went like this:

 

I noticed new lesions on Haka late last week-- not a good sign. Still on his head and neck, not elsewhere. None on Aleeya or us humans.

 

We washed him with Hexadene (sp?) shampoo on Sunday, he was quite grimy from all the Imaverol spraying and needed a bath this time of year anyway. We washed Aleeya too.

Then we shaved the areas around the lesions, and applied Micatin cream, which is like Lotrimin, just a different drug I think (it's miconazole)... says on the box it's for athelete's foot and ringworm, and the vet and some others suggested it over other brands.

 

Ok-- so today, I showed her all the lesions, so she didn't bother doing a culture today... Here is the ongoing plan:

 

1) he's being put on Sporanox (itraconazole) capsules-- same as before, 2x a day, does best in an acidic environment. It's stronger stuff , and it's EXPENSIVE (almost $300 for 60 capsules). sigh.

 

2) spray the dogs with Imaverol DAILY for a week, and keep the environment clean and sprayed too, and then ongoing in the environment but we can give the dogs a break after a week, phew.

 

3) in 2 weeks, we'll do a culture on him, or maybe the DNA test again b/c it comes back faster-- we are supposed to go on vacation in late May and have H & A grey-sat with a volunteer family, but of course I wouldn't want them to bring in an infectious disease.

Backup plan (b/c we can't cancel the trip) is to have my mom come (6hr drive) to stay with them while we're away, so they can stay in the house if he is still infected at that point.

 

So, there is some good news I guess from this visit:

-- the Dr thinks this stuff will really knock it out,

--aleeya doesn't have it,

--and as per the vet, Aleeya is a very pretty girl!

 

Also, I was worried about Haka's weight (he was 88lbs last time we were there a month ago) but I think spring has sprung and they get a bit weird with food, both of them..., so he is down to 84lbs... he came in around 76 straight off the track when we got him 5yrs ago, so I try to keep him under 85... anyway, the few changes we are making are working, so it's all good on that front. Yay!

 

I'll update when we know more in a few weeks.

 

Thanks everyone!

Soren

[Guest sorenkkg]

Hi-- time for an update!

 

We went in on Tuesday-- so that's 2 weeks after he started the Sporanox-- and I brought both dogs b/c I thought I was seeing something on Aleeya.

 

1) Aleeya did get some fur taken for a culture-- she's got some totally bald spots, about the diameter of a pea, around her hind end and legs. But NO crust, just bald spots. Weird, and probably not ringworm, but the vet agreed it can sort of look like a lot of things and better to test.

She had a spot that was wiry and weird on her tail, but the vet said that is "stud tail" and really nothing to be worried about. So for once, I'm not

 

2) Haka-- his lesions on top of his head and under his chin and neck, are healing pretty well. I did find one that was "new" but it was actually very hidden in the thick fur under his ear, so maybe it's not new, we just never saw it before.

The vet took a LOT of fur samples-- one lesion did scab over and was a bit pus-y under the scab, but she took it off and cleaned it-- no big deal. She was worried about that one only b/c the fur around it was coming out pretty easily, so maybe there is still some fungus there, she thought.

She took fur from the hidden one I found for her too, and some of the others. Big sample b/c he was going to have 2 tests-- the DNA test which says yes or no, and the culture, which confirms it and can give us a species too, but takes 2-3 weeks. The DNA is 3 days.

 

3) She said continue with the Imaverol (I don't think it's available in the USA, and I don't think Sporanox is approved for vet use in USA either, as per my reading...) just on his head and neck, and shave the affected spots again. She likes the spray more than any cream, though for creams, she likes anything with miconazole, so we were using Micatin. We have to keep spraying for a week, and also spray the environment as well-- beds, couches, etc.

She also said, it could take a long time to get rid of, and I was also reading it could be as much as 20 weeks of treatment! We're about week 7 or so... ugh.

 

OK-- here's the good news: we got the DNA test back on Friday, and he is NEGATIVE!!! Which is a huge surprise, b/c they say the test is so sensitive, it usually picks up on the dead ringworm and gives a false positive, and only the culture says for sure.

 

So, we are still waiting on the cultures on both dogs, another couple weeks, but this is a very good sign!

 

I'll update again when we have more news.

Soren

[Guest sorenkkg]

And to wrap things up in the ongoing ringworm saga-- we got the call yesterday from the vet that the culture was CLEAR, so that, combined with the DNA that was negative, means Haka is finally OK!!!

 

I was worried b/c after we got the DNA negative back, we did find a lesion we hadn't seen before (very near one we had seen, and the vet took samples from that one)-- so was it new, or hiding? we'll never know...

We kept spraying his head with Imaverol all this time, so that newer scab healed up pretty quick, and now all the tests came back clean.

 

I'll probably make up one more batch of imaverol spray and spray the couch and dog beds, carpets, again one more time.

 

We are also still giving him the Immuno RX vitamins daily, maybe do another month of that too, just for good measure.

 

Thanks for the support!

Soren

[Guest eaglflyt]

Wow, you've had a very long battle with this. I'm so glad you're done now! Congratulations!

[Guest sorenkkg]

Wow, you've had a very long battle with this. I'm so glad you're done now! Congratulations!

 

Funny thing to be congratulated on eh? But it was very stressful (did you know that untreated, ringworm can cause death? ) and very EXPENSIVE also!

 

I'm so glad it's over, and we are still going to be hypervigilant in case it comes back... I'm just glad it wasn't 2 dogs with it, and that none of the humans in the house (me and DH) seem to have gotten anything either!

Though I do look at every itchy spot with a new eye

 

S.

[Guest kydie]

Big thanks for the info, just in case I ever need it, glad everthing is turning the cornor

[Guest sorenkkg]

Yep, it's us again!

 

Just wanted to update this thread to say-- it might be that it was NEVER ringworm!

 

a couple weeks ago, I noticed a couple crusty spots on Haka-- on his chest, and near his ear (where last lesion was slow to heal).

 

I took him to the vet, and saw a different vet-- she knows us, and we actually saw her once during the last episode early on, she had said it was nothing... So...

 

she explained that the DNA test comes back positive 9/10 times, and since we never did a culture at the start, we can't be sure he really had ringworm-- we only did it at the end, and it was negative. Dna was negative then too.

 

Anyway-- she took a culture and gave us Surolan to put on topically till we knew. We use this for their ear infections, as it is for anti-fungal and anti-bacterial-- and she said that a bacterial skin infection would be MUCH more likely in a dog his age (and not imuno-compromised, and Aleeya never got anything and neither did we...)

 

Well-- wouldn't you know it that after less than a week 2x a day, all the lesions were cleared.

 

Let me tell you-- I'm SUPER glad it worked, and i'm SUPER pissed we spent about $1500 on his trips and treatments and tests... UGH.

 

preliminary culture is back, negative for fungals. Waiting another week or so for the final, but that just sort of ties everything up, eh?

 

sigh.

[Guest mcsheltie]

It is a horrid thing to go through. A friend of mine is a hair dresser and found a lesion on her arm. It spread to her cats. She went through a three month ordeal, constantly cleaning and just about nuked everyone in the house with chemicals of one sort or another. At the very end they told her the same thing, it may have never been ringworm.

 

One thing I want to research is that in cats Program (flea control) kills ringworm. I wonder if it does in dogs.

[Guest sorenkkg]

It is a horrid thing to go through. A friend of mine is a hair dresser and found a lesion on her arm. It spread to her cats. She went through a three month ordeal, constantly cleaning and just about nuked everyone in the house with chemicals of one sort or another. At the very end they told her the same thing, it may have never been ringworm.

 

One thing I want to research is that in cats Program (flea control) kills ringworm. I wonder if it does in dogs.

 

here's something I found (we do Revolution, but interesting anyway)-- my vet and everything I read before says that cats are more likely to get it, and that 25% of cats carry it without getting it (I believe).

 

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=559

 

Does Program Cure Ringworm?

 

In the late fall of 2000, the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association published a study of over 200 cases indicating that Lufenuron (the active ingredient of Program) could be an effective treatment for ringworm. This began as an observation that animals using Program or Sentinel for flea control did not get ringworm. Questions about this work have come up from the public since the release of this work. The fact is that the study is still under scrutiny by members of the American College of Veterinary Dermatology and the jury is still out. It is clear that the doses purported to be helpful with ringworm should not be harmful. At this time the use of lufenuron for ringworm is reasonable if other more conventional treatments are concurrently used.