Ace (or Something Like That)

[Hollis]

We took Norm and Tanner to a grey event today. Norm got so excited to see other greys he was jumping all over the back of the van! He had to check everywhere for pee-mail and and his nose up every butt he could reach! Tanner on the other hand just doesnt like to be out. He's afraid of everything. Someone walking to near to him, a noise he's not expecting, the wind fluttering a sign, ANYTHING. We have a friend who's pup (non-grey) was mch the same way, until he was put a a daily dose of ACE. He's a much more confident dog now. Do any of you have a grey thats on puppy prozac for nerves? I hate the idea of drugging needlessly, but I hate even more that Tanner is always so afraid. When he came home 2 years ago he was always hiding in the bedroom. He certainly comes out now, but if anyone other than us are here, he hides again. I just want him to be happy.

 

And if not on a regular basis, what if anything might you recommend for out of the ordinary? We're heading to Dewey soon and I want him to have a good time also.

 

 

TIA.

[Houndtime]

John E has been on Prozac for over a year. You wouldn't know it to meet him. Those that know him for a while, think that he has a calmer presence.

He is just like your dog, in that a lot of thing makes him nervous. At home, very often he hides in the closet if there is a noise that is too loud. When we walk him, he looks over his shoulder. If another dog comes too close he growls. He is fine with his housemates and dogs that knows.

If you decide to medicate your dog, there is behavior modification that should be undertaken as well. Such as, diversion of attention, commands to follow and satisfaction rewards. Realize though, in a stressful situation for your dog, all learned actions can go out the window.

If you meet with a behaviorist and try the medication route, Walmart has the best price on generics.

[Hollis]

Thanks Irene. I know with human meds it takes awhile to get into the system. Is it the same for the pups? I'm wondering if I should attempt something before we go away.

[Houndtime]

Yes it does take time. We took him to the U of P for his evaluation.

They started him on 10 mgs, for two weeks, before we went to Jekyll Island last year. Then the dosage increased to 20 mgs, all the while working on behavior modification exercises that we learned. We used a gentle leader also, which I forgot to mention in my previous post.

We were supposed to increase to 30 mgs, after another time frame (which I forget), but felt that he was comfortable at the 20 mgs and wanted to try that dosage for a while. We have stayed with that dosage. Initially, there was a little groggy-kind of look, but that went away. He had basically no side effects. Was he sleepy? Yes. Is he a greyhound? Yes.

[RileysLegacy]

My iggy Puzzle was on Amitriptyline (Elavil) for about 4 months. It is another anti-depressant for humans, but for dogs it works as an anti-anxiety drug. It worked wonderfully for him, but it was in conjunction with behavior therapy. None of these drugs are a quick fix that you give your dog and they are better. You must work on the behaviors the same time. Also, in most cases it is not something you give long term. The goal for Puzzle from the beginning was to wean him off after a couple of months.

 

You didn't go into detail about your dogs' condition, but I personally think that meds should be a last resort. Puzzle was having such bad anxiety that he was literally making himself sick. He would get explosive diarrhea and feel awful for days after any sort of interaction with the world. We tried everything we could think of, but nothing helped b/c he got to such a level of panic that there was no reaching him at that point.

 

The medicine did not change his fearfulness, but over time it helped in that he would not reach that extermely high level of panic that he had before. He was still scared, but I was able to slowly work on positive reinforcement and behavior modification. It took a good three weeks for the meds to kick in also. I am just telling you this because while I am SO glad we chose to try this medicine, it was not a quick-fix in any way. Today he is still a fearful dog, but no longer has the extreme panic attacks and hasn't had diarrhea since we started the meds. I noticed absolutely no side effects with the meds.

 

Definitely discuss this all with your vet. He/she will be able to help you make a decision on what is right for your dog. Some dogs are just shy, and may never be outgoing and social in new situations. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

Also, from my understanding, Acrepromazine is a tranquilizer. I don't think you would want to use it regularly at all, and I don't even think it is the best drug for sighthounds. We use it for cats getting groomed in our grooming shop, and I know people use it for thunderphobic dogs. But those are isolated incidences, not regular use.

[Greytlady94]

It sounds like Norm is an outgoing extrovert and Tanner is more shy, maybe a little on the introverted side or a little spooky. There is nothing wrong with them being different, and having different comfort levels. I personally would not medicate a dog to try and achieve a different personality. It's OK for Tanner to be different and to not enjoy the same things Norm does. Maybe you could find a behaviorist who could help you with exercises to help Tanner gain more self confidence, and persue that before considering medication.

 

In Dewey maybe you could take Tanner and Norm both out in the early mornings when people are just strolling around and walking the beach, and in the busy times maybe you and Tanner could have some quiet time wherever you are staying. With the shy greys it can take several years for their self confidence to bloom, and it takes baby steps. Two years is a relatively short amount of time.

 

There are times that something like Prosac may indeed be the answer, but from your description Tanner just sounds like a shy greyhound who is happier not going out.

[Hollis]

Thanks for the responses. Tanner is most definitely my shy one. He has come so far in two years, but taking him out yesterday just reinforced for me how shy he still is. Medication would be a last resort, (heck-I'll let a headache work its course sooner than take an aspirin) but I wanted some other opinions. Many thanks!

[feemandvm]

Acepromazine is a sedative and is contradindicated in fearful situations. Imagine something that is very scary to you... spiders, snakes, whatever it may be. Now I am going to put you in a room full of X and drug you so that you are too tired to move. That is how Ace works. It just sedates the dog... it does nothing to address their actual fear. It used to be used for storms all the time but that was before we knew better. Avoid Ace if at all possible for fearful events.

 

Prozac, Clomicalm, Elavil, Xanax, etc. are all reasonable options if behavioral modification is ineffective. DAP collars are another option that are very benign. I haven't had good luck with things like Rescue Remedy although others love it.

 

 

 

[Guest Tigonie]

No input here on any of the medications, but I did have a thought.

 

I'm wondering, if Tanner is not happy going out and about to large gatherings, have you thought about leaving him home? For example, do you have anyone who could greysit/housesit in your home, who Tanner knows and trusts? That way, he'd have his familiar routine and surroundings. Not to say this is what you should do, but it's a thought anyhow.

 

Personally, I'd avoid boarding him if I couldn't get someone to come and stay for the weekend (or if he couldn't go somewhere he felt comfortable, e.g., a friend's house where he knew and trusted the person). My thought would be, if he were my dog and were going to be uncomfortable in either situation (at home or at the event), I'd rather have him with me. But if I could create a happier situation for him for a couple of days--rather than a couple of days of stress over what's meant to be fun--I'd think about arranging that for him.

 

Either way, to Tanner and to you!

[Guest budsmom]

I'm in the camp that says if he really doesn't like to be out and about, don't make him do it. A behaviorist I talked to about my shy guy told me about something she heard Turid Ruugas say once (to paraphrase) "Americans expect their dogs to be humans, they don't just let them be dogs. We are always taking them somewhere or doing some kind of acitivity with them, and for whose benefit - the human or the dog?" Some dogs love to be out interacting with people and other animals and if you have one like that great, but if you have one who clearly isn't a social butterfly love them for who they are and don't put them in situations that they don't enjoy.

[Hollis]

No input here on any of the medications, but I did have a thought.

 

I'm wondering, if Tanner is not happy going out and about to large gatherings, have you thought about leaving him home? For example, do you have anyone who could greysit/housesit in your home, who Tanner knows and trusts? That way, he'd have his familiar routine and surroundings. Not to say this is what you should do, but it's a thought anyhow.

 

Personally, I'd avoid boarding him if I couldn't get someone to come and stay for the weekend (or if he couldn't go somewhere he felt comfortable, e.g., a friend's house where he knew and trusted the person). My thought would be, if he were my dog and were going to be uncomfortable in either situation (at home or at the event), I'd rather have him with me. But if I could create a happier situation for him for a couple of days--rather than a couple of days of stress over what's meant to be fun--I'd think about arranging that for him.

 

Either way, to Tanner and to you!

 

 

I'm in the camp that says if he really doesn't like to be out and about, don't make him do it. A behaviorist I talked to about my shy guy told me about something she heard Turid Ruugas say once (to paraphrase) "Americans expect their dogs to be humans, they don't just let them be dogs. We are always taking them somewhere or doing some kind of acitivity with them, and for whose benefit - the human or the dog?" Some dogs love to be out interacting with people and other animals and if you have one like that great, but if you have one who clearly isn't a social butterfly love them for who they are and don't put them in situations that they don't enjoy.

 

Yep, I'm being to lean that way. We boarded everyone 2 1/2 years ago (before Norm) for the New Years weekend when we went away to celebrate our 10th anniversary. Tanner was miserable. I couldnt believe how much weight he lost in just a long weekend. Will never do that again. No way to get someone in that we trust at this late date. I'm hoping that I'm over-reacting and he's going to be just fine for Dewey. But, it doesnt matter if we spend the weekend out and about or relaxing at the B&B, we'll all be together for a much needed vacation. DP is in school so I'm forseeing some journeys out with Norm while she stays in to study, and Tanner can stay with her.

 

Thanks again for the responses. If I see you I'll be sure to give you a hug!! (All of you!)

[Guest LindsaySF]

Were you at the WAG picnic on the 15th? I didn't see you!

 

My boy Cody is a very fearful dog. When I first got him, he would squat down and tremble with his tail between his legs when we were around a lot of people or activity. He would growl and snap if strange people or dogs approached. I was worried that he would have to be medicated, but I decided to work on it behaviorally first.

 

I started by taking him to new and strange places (parks, etc) where there weren't a lot of people, but he could be introduced to new sights/sounds/etc. Eventually we worked up to more and more crowded places, and worked up to people speaking to him, then approaching him and letting him sniff them, then trying to pet him. He is still fearful of men, but he will usually approach women and children if they are patient with him. That is light years from when I got him. He still gets nervous if people zero in on him and try to "force it", but if they are passive and pretty much ignore him, he does get curious and he will approach them.

 

I don't take him out and socialize him nearly as much as I should, but for a while there we were going places multiple times a week. I would always make it fun, and usually bring another dog along to give him confidence (he is very bonded to Aidan especially). LOTS of praise and rubs, especially since he won't take treats when he is nervous.

 

I think if Tanner went more places, he would get used to it and be less afraid. On the other hand, you have to be careful not to "flood" fearful dogs with too much stimuli and make them more anxious than they were before.

 

If you think Dewey might be too stressful for him, and you can't find a petsitter, maybe try to avoid the larger crowds? I've never been to Dewey before, and I understand that the vendors are all spread out this year instead of in tents, so I'm not really sure how it works. But even my Teagan, who is a very social dog, gets anxious in huge crowds. Especially if there is a lot of noise, and he feels trapped by being on a leash. Thankfully some friends of mine are renting a house in Dewey and they can watch Teegs if I need to leave him 'home' for a bit. I could watch Tanner for you if you want to go out and shop and I'm just hanging out in my hotel room.

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

[Hollis]

Hey Lindsay! We didnt make it to the picnic until 3p when everything was really finishing up. We needed to stop at the hospital first.

 

I appreciate the advice and the offer for Tanner sitting! The advice is defiantly I'll work on. Hopefully it will help. As for Dewey, we'll just take things as quietly as we can! Hope to see you there!