Saffron

I would be pissed too and hope that your friend brings it to the attention of the prescribing vet. It definitely looks like a misplaced decimal point! I guess the poor dog can make a full recovery from Bomide toxicity but I'd be really angry with the vet. An acknowledgement and apology is the least the vet can offer. scullysmum: Yes, you are quite right, Kbr does cause psychosis in humans but rarely in dogs. When I did a search I only found a couple of footnotes about Kbr psychosis in dogs on what I think of as the usual Canine-Epi support websites. Also, one article on a poodle site and one on a Westie site, IIRC. Even veterinary articles say that only a handful of dogs go psychotic on Kbr. Trust Caesar, he always likes to be different! I'd use certainly use Kbr again on other seizure dogs, but I hope Caesar's experience now comes up on searches. I would have pressured to take him off it faster had I known, and I don't want other people and dogs to go through what we did.

I hope it is not a brain tumor and scans and spinal taps are $$$$. With that big of a loading dose I'm thinking its probably bromism too. I just wanted to add -- Caesar never had ataxia when on Kbr. I'm sure other people will chime in here soon but it might be a good idea to ask this question on on the Yahoo or Facebook canine epi groups or on the EPIL-K9 list.

I am so not a vet, but that sounds like a massive overdose not a loading dose. I thought bromism only happened with longterm use as it builds up in the system! I hope the dog recovers well because that is awful! Looking at Caesar's log now: 75 lbs and started on 2 ml 2x a day of 250 mg/ml solution. Within a week he started to lose weight and started to get agitated. My vet consulted with the neurologist by phone, and we lowered the dose to 1.75 ml BID, next week and then to 1.5 ml. BID the following week. He got worse not better, but both my vet and the neuro thought he'd improve as he got used to it - and perhaps the neuro thought I was exaggerating the symptoms. I wasn't and my regular vet knew that. He was on it for just over 3 weeks before we could get an appt. with the neurologist, brain scan etc. and took him off it. But as I said, Caesar gets weird reactions to many drugs. Valium makes him hyper as well.

What are the major issues your friend's dog is having? We had Caesar on Kbr liquid for only a few weeks and the poor guy gradually went psychotic. Whining, pacing, barking at nothing, not sleeping, etc. His anxiety (and he is always a little anxious) went through the roof! The longer he was on it the worse it became and we were afraid he had a brain tumor! It turns out that this is a rare side effect of Kbr and he is hypersensitive to a lot of drugs. As soon as we took him off it (substituting Keppra, not cold turkey) he was miraculously better. I wrote about it here: http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/97439-greyhound-epilepsy-study/page-6 Sorry, I can't remember the exact dosage of Kbr he was on and don't have his log with me. He did not have a loading dose, and I'm sure the dose was standard for his weight.

Ok, can I third or fourth the recommendation to relax! You are doing all the right things and Thyme will do well, I'm sure. You have the meds needed. You know what you have to do --I have my emergency protocol written out and on my fridge because I'm afraid of panicking in the moment too. Give yourself a nice break and time to absorb all this information. It is really frightening, at first, I know. Dealing with an epi-dog isn't easy But the truth is that the majority of epi-dogs with conscientious and observant owners live for a long time with very good quality of life! The early days are the worst because you are not sure what you are dealing with, but it does get better.

Another quick thought on the MRI and Spinal Tap -- they have to be done under general anesthesia. Just another thing to consider when you are weighing risks versus benefits.

Glad you are back and have the meds and cluster-buster. 1. We've not used Zonisamide so I'll leave others to answer that. 2. MRI/Spinal tap? I'm going to say -- probably not really necessary yet and up to you. I'd see if the meds work first. Note: We did do both with Caesar, but that was because we really needed to rule out a brain tumor due to behavioral changes when we put him on Potassium Bromide. Again, Caesar is a special snowflake who has rare side-effects with many drugs. 3. No. Eyes are fixed and staring. The neuro is probably asking about nystagmus (eyes darting) to consider causes other than idiopathic epilepsy -- vestibular disease, head trauma, cancer (inner ear) or brain tumors, encephalitis, hypothyroidism and other things.

What Mary Jane said. I was the "someone else" that suggested giving her space when having seizures. I thought I'd made it clear that I was dealing with a grey whose Grand Mal seizures are so violent that he could clamp his jaws down on my hands and hurt me when he is totally out of it. And a grey that is so scared by seizures that he gets aggressive in the post-ictal phase. These reactions are not that common, but people should be aware of the risks. Perhaps my writing skills didn't make it clear that those were extreme precautions. Sorry. In lay-terms, a grand mal (tonic-clonic) seizure basically send the whole body into massive spasms with huge muscular activity that causes the body to over-heat. Continuous seizures so violent can be fatal and constitute a medical emergency. In the video you posted, Denise, I'd call that "focal" or petit mal, not Grand Mal But focal seizures can turn into Grand Mal. That is why Mary Jane is cautioning you. These seizures are coming so closely together that I'm fairly sure that your neurologist will recommend meds immediately. Please talk to the neuro about pros and cons of each med. FYI: A couple of questions Caesar's neurologist asked to be prepared for, and that I wasn't expecting, were: how old is your house? and have you done any renovations recently? Please keep us posted on what is happening with Thyme.

I think you will be inundated soon with more recommendations. There are a lot of greyhound-savvy vets in Boston and it is usually a good idea to get a vet close to you. It is a bit far from downtown Boston, but Dr. Poling at Holliston Animal Hospital 13 Exchange Street, Holliston, MA is a real greyhound expert and also the Greyhound Friends vet. He has been very generous in being available for consulting with my vet over the years (my dogs tend to present with weird problems!). He also treated Olly for a badly broken leg before I adopted him, and probably saved the leg. I adopted Olly when he was still in a splint and we had to go to Holliston for bandage changes several times. I was very impressed with Dr Poling and his office staff. .

Oh no! Not something wrong with the beautiful Star. I don't think I can help much, but wanted to say that. Knowing you, you've already looked for the usual stuff and checked his paw for injury or a burgeoning corn and his leg for any heat, swelling and soreness. I hope he has just twisted something that stiffens up overnight and it resolves very quickly. Otherwise, we do share an excellent vet . . .

This sounds like a possible "focal" or partial seizure (affecting only part of the brain) to me, but it is hard to tell as a lay person on the other side of the computer. It really needs to be described to your vet, and I would definitely get on the list for a neurology consult as soon as possible. You can always cancel it if this resolves itself. A focal seizure can last for a minute or two and the dog never obviously loses consciousness. They sometimes progress to tonic-clonic (grand mal) but not always. Thyme may be less aware of you than you think during a focal seizure. A few things: Try to video episodes like this if you can. It will be very useful to your vet or neurologist. Also, if you search "focal" or "partial" seizures in dogs on Youtube quite a few videos come up that show the wide variations in what they can look like. Usually people have made these videos at the request of their vets. Be cautious when holding a seizing dog because you can get hurt. Keep your hands away from her mouth in case her jaws snap shut, and be aware that you can get badly scratched by thrashing paws. It is human nature to try to hold the dog and comfort it because a seizure is distressing to watch, but the dog is not in pain during the seizure -- she's totally unconscious. You should immediately look at the time, make sure she is in a safe place on the floor away from furniture and electrical cords, put something under her head and stand back, if at all possible. Observing, filming and timing is very important. I also need to grab our "OMG Kit" - the cluster-buster Mary Jane is talking about. I find it helpful to talk calmly throughout the seizure. I usually tell Caesar that everything will be OK soon, talk loving nonsense, and review our "seizure protocol" and the directions to the E-vet aloud in case he clusters. It calms me down and seems to be reassuring to Caesar as he recovers consciousness. As I said in the other thread, I have to remain completely still and at a safe distance from Caesar until about 30 minutes after the seizure, but that is obviously not always necessary. I hope this helps.

That is really interesting. I had one dog (JRT) who did want to attack a seizing dog but it seemed almost a fear reaction for her. It was really important to keep those two separated. If you are a dog, it must be shocking to see your buddy thrashing around, looking different and probably smelling very different from usual. One other thing worth mentioning for those who have more than one dog -- I suspect that Olly may be learning to predict Caesar's seizures. He and Caesar often share a dog bed and snuggle together happily, but I'm beginning to notice that Olly seems to keep his distance from Caesar for about 6 hours before a seizure. I'm not certain yet that this is a reliable predictor but it is a definite possibility. Olly is a wise Galgo with a well honed survival instinct.

Thanks, Liz. It was so nice to see you at the last GAS Reunion! I just noticed from your signature that you lost sweet Wink in September and read her thread in Remembrance. I am so very sorry. Wink was such a lovely girl and you gave her a wonderful life.

Other. I find it rather nonsensical. There is really no such thing as "dog sociology" although the term has been (mis)used by the "Human needs to be Alpha Dog because dogs are descended from wolves" aficionados. Those theories have now been fairly thoroughly debunked as it is now accepted that the original research on wolves was flawed. And domesticated dogs are not the same as wolves anyway. Dogs (greyhound or not) do not perceive children as dogs. Dogs are not stupid and can tell the difference. Their behavior towards small humans will vary according to their socialization and experience, and the behavior of small humans with said dogs. This phrase was used by (but possibly did not originate with) a Greyhound Adoption Agency in materials for training volunteers ages and ages ago. The idea was to be very cautious when adopting out greyhounds to families with small children and to warn potential adopters to use appropriate care supervising greyhounds (or any other dog) in interactions with small children. The training materials may have been revised since 1995. I hope so.

Thanks everyone for the reassurances. Don't we all wish that dogs could talk? They can also be so stoic that we have to anticipate the possibility of pain and medicate -- but be careful not to overmedicate them either. We are very lucky in that we have an excellent vet who is working with us on Pilgrim's pain control. Pilgrim is a lucky girl.