Xan
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Posts posted by Xan
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Robin, I don't know if it will get super big, but it is still growing. It does bother her some. I've noticed that she won't play with toys, and I've noticed her come to a complete halt and sit still (a pain sign for her) after play-biting at some gopher dirt outside. When it's bumped, it gets cherry red, and that can't feel good. It's not in the way of eating, yet (?), but if it keeps growing, it will be eventually.
There are three different kinds, and they have different growth styles and rates. I still don't know what kind it is. I've just left another message with the vet who did the biopsy to talk to her more about it.
I'm in no hurry to be putting her under and cutting at her, that's for sure! But, if it's a type that can take over her jaw, invading bone, then the sooner we get it, the less radical surgery will be necessary. Blegh.
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I have one natural vet asking why I'd want to treat it at all, since it's benign.
I haven't heard back from the vet yet about what kind of epulis it is, or what she thinks is the next step. The types really do vary in terms of treatment, so that's important info to make a decision based on. I'll call her tomorrow.
There's another vet in the area who uses Chinese medicine, which is also interesting to me. Meanwhile, Wabi continues to snarf up dandelions, and be her normal goofy self!
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That had occurred to me, too. Not sure if you can get in deep enough, since it grows out of the tooth's ligament. Surgical "cures" seem to insist on 1cm margins, which means anything in that zone: bone, tooth, gum.
But I will ask. Thanks for bringing it up.
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Paula, your emotie is cute! But ... its idea doesn't work! Waaa!
I'm SO glad Phaelin's hasn't grown back! I read somewhere today that prognosis for dogs is in the 500-something days post-diagnosis! That's not long enough! *fists on hips* It won't do. But, that little snippet did not say what eventually the dogs died of, nor if it was related. Just a loose number, averaging around randomly.
I'm not ruling out some form of excision, just hoping to avoid it, and/or minimize it. We'll see. I have some feelers out, and I'm doing some studying ... If anyone has any info on alternative treatments, I'd love to hear it!
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Just got a call from the vet's office: it's an epulis! So, that's relatively good!
Now, what to do about it? *need an emoticon for putting on my thinking cap*
(Issue #2: How we will pay for it!
)I talked to a friend yesterday who'd dog had one years ago, and had the surgery to remove it. My friend has since moved into a more integrated approach to medicine, and regrets having had the surgery done, since she's since learned of non-surgical treatments. Medicine that takes from all the approaches appropriately (Integrative Medicine) is my own preference, too. I want to talk to my current vet about that, and then probably to another one or two local-ish vets who use alternative therapies. If I can avoid surgery for Wabi, and give her a good quality of life, then that's the highest good!
Thanks again for all the emotional support and good thoughts!!
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Thanks for checking in, everybody. We're still waiting on the pathology report .......
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You know what's weird? When you multi-quote check something, then don't reply to it, then do reply to another thread, and lo! There the quotes are!
I had to check his vet paperwork, which says he did lose an incisor, but when I check his mouth, I don't see where it's missing.
I do remember the vet saying he had to remove a tooth, but Phaelin wasn't all that cooperative with me probing his mouth tonight, so I'm sure he did. My notes don't say if there was any bone removed, and I don't remember the vet mentioning that, so I'm thinking none was removed. I think we caught Phaelin's early so that's why they only removed the one tooth and didn't need to remove any bone.Ah, good. Well, I can keep my fingers crossed, anyway.
When Avalanche had his epulis removed, he lost two front teeth. The way I understood it was that it grew out of the roots, or maybe it was around the roots of the teeth.
Yes, apparently it's a tumor of the ligament that attaches the tooth to the jaw. Who knew teeth had ligaments? I mean, I guess I never thought of it ...
Anyway, yeah, so these epuloides (I think that's the right plural?) can deform the jaw and shove the teeth all cattywhampus. That is a technical term, by the way. She was up and chasing the kitties, eating her breakfast with her usual gusto, and vulturing over any dropped bits near Pogo and Brilly, so I think she's feeling back to normal, today!
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Ah, Gil! You've written so eloquently of your relationship and your shared life with Tanner. His loss will send ripples as wide as the circle of his friends' hearts.
:bighug -
Poor little thingy. She's a bit wobbly and spacy, but she's HERE! Her bump is kind of meat-like, ew, and she's not interested in ice cubes or water, but she seemed to appreciate getting wiped down with a damp cloth a bit.
When the tech brought her out, her little face struck me as so white! She's not my little mustachio'd puppy anymore. So little and frail-looking, in that clinic context.
Well, she'll be running Brilly 'round in circles tomorrow, or I miss my guess. She's just got to brush off this anesthesia hangover. We have some Tramadol for dessert, so she'll be okay tonight, I'm sure.
Paula, when they removed Phaelin's, did they take teeth or bone with it? From what I've been reading, Wabi is likely to lose at the very least that canine, and maybe the incisors on that side, along with the bone they're attached to. We'll see what happens.
Right now, my heart is full of Gil and Tanner!!
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Just talked to the vet!
She said, she got a good sample with just a light sedation and a local (yeay!!), because she's such a good dog!
And that her teeth and jaw all seemed stable. She's leaning towards epulis, partly because she doesn't see it as growing as aggressively as some mouth cancers. Path report should be back in "five-ish days". I can pick her up after 3:00. (How's 3:00:01? ;P )
Now, we wait.
She also said her kidney enzymes were at the high end of normal, and asked if I raw feed (nope). That's just something to note and watch, she said.
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Mary, what you said!
Thanks, and I will pass along all the goodies. And keep some hugs.
But, really, is it too early to call??
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Exactly, Patsy!
Adrienne, I hope it works out! I hope you're enjoying your family visit.
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Wabs is at the vet now. I dropped her off a little after 8, and they said they'll probably keep her 'til around 5pm, which is probably to keep an eye on her following the anesthesia, so good. Although it's awful, and feels so weird that she's not here. H and I are both so anxious! They say they'll call when she's out of surgery, and I repeated repeatedly that she has arrested under anesthesia before, and has no spleen. She, on the other hand, was thrilled to be there, even putting her front paws on the counter for a second, which is a FIRST.
When one woman came out to take her back saying, "So, you want to come with me?" Wabi took one look at her, and dashed over. I said, "She'll go with anybody. Watch, she won't even say good-bye!" She never looked back, the little rascal!I just hope that's not the last memory I'll have of her alive.
*sigh*
PS My niece said that was very morbid. But, hey!
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Thanks, Patsy!
DH and I were just talking about the arrogance of prayer and other such lobbying with the powers-that-be, and the crazy assumption that our words might have power over nature itself. Well, yeah, I'm not going to rule out the possibility, crazy as it might be!
I'll let you all know as soon as I pick her up tomorrow. **crazy speaking to powers-that-be that she WILL come home tomorrow, alive. And well, while we're at it!**
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Thank you, Kestralyn! That's sweet of you.
Yes, we're coming up on it, this Fri., day after tomorrow, and thank goodness! I do not like the look of it, and it does keep growing and changing.
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It COULD be an epulis. That would be my personal preference. If such a thing has any weight with the universe. And is retroactive, as necessary.
It's continuing to get visibly bigger. I'm noticing today more growth on the inside. Luckily for her, her mouth is so deformed that her upper teeth are nowhere near interfering with it (yet!), and she really isn't bothered still.
Thank you all so much for all the comforting options and supportive presences, good thoughts, chants, candles and prayers! We'll take 'em all!
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Augh. You must be beside yourself.
Your beloved boy is in my thoughts, as are you.
:bighug -
I saw the Kebo-roaching thread! That's so cool.
I was cringing for you all, reading how much he hates car travel, and assuming he likes it all even less now. I've got my fingers crossed that you'll never see any of that Thing again. Give him a little hug for me, eh?
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Gak!
Glad Ruby managed to resolve her issue on her own.
Excuse me now. I have to go throw up.
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My heart sank when I saw your picture. Wabi was always in our thoughts as Kebo went through his "facelift."
This is what Kebo's lesion looked like.
We are hoping and praying for her.
If it does turn out to be fibrosarcoma, make sure you have a confident and aggressive surgeon who can make sure to get clean margins the first time.
If I can answer any questions about our recent experiences with Kebo, please don't hesitate to email or PM me.
I looked at your threads about Kebo before I posted, greytkidsmom. I hope Kebo is still doing well! He does look a bit like Wabi now, doesn't he? <3 I've taken your story to heart, and have discussed the ramifications with DH. Thanks for your offer! I appreciate it a lot.
Could it be a salivary mucocele? Ruby had one, but hers was more on the side of her mouth. Looked similar to that, though.
Had to go look that up, but it seems to be in the wrong place, and the wrong texture for that, Of course, what do I know?
I'm writing all this down to mention to the vet, anyway. Is Ruby alright now? Did they take the whole gland out? -
Yes!! Hoping for something like an epulis! (And, she does need a dental!)
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Daytona had something that looked very similar. We went to the vet and he removed it then and there. I cant remember what he called it but he said it was fairly common in older dogs and that it was benign.
Prayers for Wabi!
On a side note, a few years ago Sammi had 2 Histiocytomas~ one on her belly and one in her mouth. They are scary to observe because they act so aggressive (and look it, too!). They are red, ugly and mean looking.
We didn't know what they were at first, the vet biopsied them and then removed them, sent both the biopsies and the tumors themselves to path. Came back as those lil copycat buggers, Hystiocytomas.
Praying this turns out ot be something as simple.
From your typing fingers to the health-gods' ears!
Thanks for all the well-wishes, my friends! Wabi continues unconcerned, and is even getting used to me touching her bumpy gum, which I hope will make dealing with it easier for the vet, and therefor for Wabi.
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I have been a bit pain, calling them back, trying to get her moved up, getting my concerns across, etc.. Next Friday is earliest. So, y'all cross your fingers with me, 'kay??
And, the vet did say she really felt we should do a biopsy first, rather than a more invasive removal, so we know just HOW invasive we need to be. I get that. I'm just ... anxious about multiple anesthesia events, not to mention the time spent possibly letting it grow.
Money is going to be an issue. I hope they will let us pay in a few installments!
Adrienne, absolutely stop by! Email/message me, and I'll give you my phone number.
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Urk! I'm not sure if I feel better or worse after looking at the links, Ducky!
But, seriously, thanks. I hadn't found those two in my semi-obsessive searching. They do show a lot of different types of tumors that - to my unpracticed eye - look like Wabi's, so I guess we'll just have to wait for pathology.
Just talked to the vet's office about a biopsy. We have an appointment, but not 'til next Friday. I wonder how big it will be by then! I think we need to stream-line the process, if possible, do a more comprehensive surgery, and then send the mess to pathology after, to avoid having her go under more often than necessary. I've just called back and asked to talk specifically to the vet (rather than the receptionist/tech(?))
Bleh.
Thanks for the support!! We've all been on both sides of that, and know how helpful it can be!
Oh, and she's still hunting the dandelions every day!
I do remember the vet saying he had to remove a tooth, but Phaelin wasn't all that cooperative with me probing his mouth tonight, so I'm sure he did. My notes don't say if there was any bone removed, and I don't remember the vet mentioning that, so I'm thinking none was removed. I think we caught Phaelin's early so that's why they only removed the one tooth and didn't need to remove any bone.
Wabi Has A Mouth ... Tumor?
in Health and Medical discussion
Posted
Good thought, Rickiesmom. I'll look into that. Thanks!