llm51807

Poor Zuri! I'm happy to hear he's feeling better but sheesh! Can't a boy get a break? I don't really have anything to add to his current issue, but the epsom salt washcloth sounds like a good idea. Hate to think you'll have to add AB's into his current med mix. Such a necessary evil they are. I always try to treat conservatively and topically when it comes to skin issues (which Cecil has had many over the years and never once had to take oral ABs).

Roux, that sounds like a good med schedule. I may start playing with our timing a bit as well here. He's still limping too much, but less painful. Cried out getting up to reposition in my bed this morning, but was OK getting up from his bed (that's propped up against the wall allowing him to lie on a tilt which helps him over and up when he's ready). I can see something working, either the Tylenol 3 or the zoledronate. He's still woozy from the codeine and if we do get to the other side of this injury/pain, it will be the first to get tapered off. I've increased his CBD oil/hemp dose as well Jen. It is supposed to have an anti-anxiety effect on them, so maybe that's why Zuri is so chill. Without the THC it's not supposed to cause any high or some of the other side effects of MJ. But I swear Cecil has the munchies. He's alway hungry and super food motivated and he has never refused food once since I've known him, but he's acting even more hungry lately. Could be because I've been spoiling him with people food which is new to him. Our other boy Jet can get anxious (in a "I'm so happy I could jump into your arms and lick your face off" kind of a way), so I'll be trying it on him when I know we're expecting guests or getting ready to go for a long ride (both MAJOR over the top excitement generators). Well, sounds like things are a little more under control for the moment. Let's hope this continues heading in the right direction. Hugs to Zuri and Crouton and wishing all a good day.

Agree with Jen on the dosing frequency. Glad to hear the med adjustment seems to be helping Crouton. Jen, how did Zuri end up tonight? Seems like he was having a little better day today. Cecil started out rough this morning, but by this evening seemed better. He's still not in a maintainable place in terms of pain management, but he's definitely better. I haven't heard a yelp all night with lots of ups/downs from his beds. He's stoned for sure from the extra meds, especially the newly added Tylenol 3, and he's still limping a lot. I'm happy with his improvement compared to last night and this morning, but this needs to be on the way to something better; we can't stay here. Still hoping this is the zoledronate kicking in and that we'll get to the other side of whatever this injury this is. Today I decided if he wasn't better by tomorrow afternoon I would call the mobile vet to make an appointment for her to come on Thursday so we could say goodbye, but now I have a glimmer of hope again. Up and down up and down. And I see the same in Zuri and Crouton. Wishing Zuri and Crouton and Cecil a good, pain-free night and some peace for their humans.

Bad news about Crouton, sorry, Roux. Aside from Zuri's toe, this has been a supremely crappy week for us. I agree with Jen, seems like Crouton has some room to move on the meds maybe?

Jen, I understand you're hoping for a miracle with the hemp oil; it did seem to help us. I'm waiting for yesterday's zoledronate to kick in; it's been 24 hours and I've seen no improvement. Last night was a tough night and this morning has been very bad. The Tylenol 3 is making him wobbly and a little loopy and slightly anxious (or is that pain??). The harness came, but our issue is getting him off his side while lying down and up into a stand or sphinx. He can't push off his bad shoulder if he's lying on it. We try to keep him propped up against a wall by creating a bolster with his bed, pillows, blankets, etc. Lots of crying out this morning getting him out of my bed and not much sleep for me last night, but he slept well. I got a call back from the mobile vet. She was so compassionate and after explaining the situation she said, it's so sad you went to such lengths to treat his osteo and this is from a fall. It's true. As far as we know, his cancer is still at bay, but the old dead tumor and the radiation plus the fall is too much for my sweet boy. Not sure we'll make it through the week. Our last chance with the mobile vet this week will be Thursday and she won't be available for emergencies again until next week. Hoping and praying for our miracle today or tonight. And I would like to acknowledge the small victory that is Zuri's bum toe. Hey, we'll take ANY good thing we can get at this point! Sending Zuri and Crouton love and healing with all I've got left to give

Oh Jen, I'll be thinking of you and Zuri both tonight. I'm not sure how many more nights I'll have with Cecil, so he's in my bed again tonight. Hopefully we'll get some sleep and tomorrow will be a better day for every one of us.

We recently tried Cannabis oil to add to our boy's regimen, but he has osteosarcoma and is on lots of other pain meds. It appeared to help though and is supposed to be excellent for arthritis type pain. We got it from our holistic vet, but you can get it online as well. There is only trace amounts of THC, so it doesn't cause a high. We're doing Pet VitaminRx brand - Hemp Rx. I've seen it online as well as CannaPet online. Might be worth a try.

Well, we're back from the vet and so is Cecil. He had a pretty good night and morning plus a good ride in the minivan to the Vet's office. Only one yelp this morning when he got up to transfer from his bed to our bed (we took the mattress off the platform bed and it's now on the floor for easy access) and DH is sleeping in the guest room. Our Vet said that x-rays probably wouldn't help much in terms of telling if there was a small fracture because once they have an osteo tumor the bone is forever altered, making diagnostics via Xray difficult, unless is was a large fracture. He said he would not be weight-bearing at all if it was a large fracture. He said it's swollen and he thinks trauma from the fall (which BTW, was in the house, Cecil has not been off-leash outside since his diagnosis in November last year). He flat-out said that he didn't look like a dog who was ready to be euthanized (but he did add that he's not living in our house with him and not hearing him screaming when he gets up/down). And then Cecil proceeded to lie down without a peep. We had the zoledronate planned today anyway, so we decided to do the treatment and we're also adding in Tylenol w/codeine to see if we can get in front of the pain. I added an additional 50mg of Rimadyl (150mg total per day) yesterday and our Vet was OK with keeping that as well, but no more. Also OK, with the 4 Gaba 3x and the 3 Tramadol 4x. We're going to give this another week or so, but if we don't see more improvement, I won't let him go on like this. I had already called mobile vet who will come out to the house when we're ready to say goodbye, but they haven't gotten back yet. There's only one in the area and she does clinic 3 days and mobile 2 days. I'd so much rather do that than the vet's office. I was lying with him in bed this morning and was really upset about the thought of letting him go at the office. Maybe this will allow us to plan better. He's passed out and comfortable now after having a full regular breakfast, a few chicken thighs, and a big cup of ice cream (we don't normally feed him all those things!). His appetite is forever insatiable and his spirit is good (as demonstrated by the fall on Saturday after bolting through the house); I just hope we can get his body to cooperate. I ordered him a Help'em Up Harness over the weekend and had it rushed so it should be here tomorrow. I researched and saw it and then came on GT to see if anyone was using it, so Jen, thanks again for even MORE good advice! Thank you all for your support, prayers, and good wishes. I can feel you and it is helping my mental health tremendously. Jen, hoping Zuri's day is improving and all of us can put off having to schedule that dreaded last vet visit. And Roux, you are right, it's sad we have to take away their opportunity to run and be offleash, but I see the enjoyment Cecil has had over the last almost 9 months even with no running. He tried to run while on-leash a few days ago outside and he could barely walk let alone run. I don't think they have any concept of trying to protect their injuries. Hate to say it, but at this point, danger lurks around every corner for them, inside (as we see with Cecil) and outside. We'll all just do the best we can to keep them safe and comfortable. Hugs to you both and to anyone else reading this thread and dealing with this horrible disease. So many have come before us, and it breaks my heart there will be so many who come after.

Oh no, Jen. Miracle turn-arounds do happen when it comes to the pain with this disease, I've seen it. Unfortunately it doesn't last and I'm not sure how many times I can put Cecil through it before we say no more. I'd like to say you'll know the right thing to do, but we are less than 2 hours from our appointment today and I'm still unsure. Praying that Zuri just needs a little rest time and those meds get ahead of the pain soon.

Thanks Tricia! I was hoping you'd do that. Hard to believe I'm in the technology business and I can't figure out how to post photos on here!

We're in Eastern time and our appointment is Noon tomorrow; thank you for asking. I know my Osteo Thread Sisters will be think of us at that time. I can't tell you how much this is helping me right now. As far as photos, after all these years, I only figured out how to post photos here once and then I forgot! Are you on Instagram? I've taken hundreds (maybe thousands!) of photos of my boys and there are quite a few on Instagram. My name on IG is "greyhoundie."

Thanks Tricia. I know you know what this feels like. We appreciate your thoughts. I'm so glad Cecil got to meet someone from GT; you are our witness to his beauty. Thank you.

Roux, thanks for posting about your pack. Crouton is beautiful and reading about your family made me smile this morning. Jen, I hope you at least got your wine time in last night! I'm not sure I could do this alone; this is so hard, even with support. We had another bad night and a really bad morning. He cries in pain and panic when he has to get up from lying down. We can't get ahead of his pain. He's fine once he's down, but getting up/down and walking is painful. He's still eating like normal - he's always been a chow hound. Our appointment for the zoledronate is at Noon tomorrow, but we're pretty sure we'll take him in and say goodbye instead. This is too much for him. Our hearts are breaking, but we can't put him through anymore days like the last few waiting for the treatment to work....maybe. We'll spend the day together cuddling and eating ice cream. I hope Zuri and Crouton had good nights; I'd sure love to hear some good news today.

We had pretty good night, but that's only because I let him sleep in bed with me. It's his favorite place but has alway been invitation-only. It's really hurting him to get up from lying down and he seems more settled in our bed than anywhere, so that's where we'll be spending time today as well. I can't stand the crying out when he gets up. We've decided we'll get his zoledronate treatment on Monday, we have an ortho vet appointment on Wed for her input, and then we'll decide what to do. If we don't see improvement by the end of the week, we've decided we'll say goodbye. He's in pain and unless we can get it under control and have a reasonable expectation that he's going to get past whatever is going on with his shoulder (is it a small fracture, large fracture, bone bruise, or who knows maybe the tumor is active again), we can't let him go on like this or be so drugged up that he has no quality of life. Doing a lot of spooning my boy and bawling my eyes out. He's quiet and comfortable in the bed and I know he's happy to have me with him. DH stayed with him this morning while I went to the gym and for a run so I could have a break. I'm back at it and we'll do this until Monday at Noon. I sure hope Crouton and Zuri are doing better.

Thank you Jen. I'm also feeling bad about not x-raying right after the fall, so your words are comforting. And you are right, I could never keep him crated in the house all day. What's the sense in that? Thank you. As for you waiting on this last treatment, I'm sure the Zoledronate will kick in soon and next time you won't wait. All this beating ourselves up is hard work. And watching our beloved hounds in pain on top of it can be almost unbearable. I can barely eat and I've heard you two say you can barely sleep. Just hoping for some more good time for all of them so we can enjoy and love them a little longer.

We the RX Vitamins for Pets HempRx. We got it from our holistic vet, but you might be able to order online. I know CannaPet also sells the oil. The Rx Vitamins oil is $99 for .83 fluid oz. Very pricey, but I bought 3 more bottles after it seemed to help so much last time. It's entirely possible he has a fracture, but I haven't taken him for xrays. I'm usually quick to make vet appointments, but my vet is on vacation and the ortho vet can't see him until Wed next week, and I'm not sure what could be done even if it is a fracture. He's been walking on it and seemed relatively OK on Monday this week and even at dinner last night seemed to be better. My thinking was I could take him the ER vet for an Xray and then what? They'd have to manipulate him for the exam and the X-ray and you know how that goes. This zoledronate on Monday is really our last hope regardless of what's going on and I just need to try to keep him comfortable until then and hopefully that kicks in. If he's not better by Wed, we've got an appointment with our ortho vet and we'll get her opinion and most likely an Xray and then we'll make a decision on what to do. I'm trying to be calm and realistic about his options, but it's getting tough. And it's killing me this is because of a fall. I get made fun of a lot because of how careful I am; I just can't believe this happened. We've gone through so much and we've been so careful. I'm not really talking to anyone about this but with you two (and anyone else following along!). I'd be out of my mind right now without this forum. And even in my panic, I'm so rooting for Zuri and Crouton along with Cecil. Our Zoledronate Trio

Thanks so much for the quick reply, both of you. I'm going to add the extra Tramadol and possible add in the Tylenol later tonight if extra Tramadol doesn't help. He's 86lbs. His tumor is/was in his right shoulder. Cecil is also weigh bearing because he also has the beginning of LS I believe which is why he wasn't a great amp candidate. I've just got to get him through the weekend to this next zoledronate treatment. I also upped his CBD oil, Jen. That's the medical cannabinoid you mentioned but in oil form. I thought I saw improvement from it when we added it in right away last month. As I said, he was doing SO well after his last acupuncture, CBD oil add-in, and zoledronate. His fall on Saturday is why we are where we are. Honestly, if I thought there was active tumor in his shoulder and he was at this level of pain, I'm not sure we would even wait until Monday for the treatment. But because his X-rays in June showed no active tumor (because of the Cyberknife) I still have a sliver of hope this is injury and not cancer and that the zoledronate will continue to help. Again, thank you both so much.

We had a bad night last night. He cried out a few times while repositioning and he hurts even more this morning. My vet is on vacation until Monday; we have an appointment at 4PM only for a blood draw with the tech ahead of our zoledronate treatment on Monday. I called our ortho vet and she doesn't have any thing until Wed next week (she's out). So I've got Gabapentin, Rimadyl and Tramadol here. We're at: Gaba - 4 @100mg x 3/day Rimadyl - 1 @50mg x 2/day Tramadol - 2 @50mg x 4x/day Jen, you said you've given Zuri up to 150mg of Tramadol at a time? Just wondering how much I can go up in dose with the Tramadol and wondering if Tylenol might help as well? He is still sleeping OK once he's settled and staying asleep for the most part. Taking treats still and is putting some weight on the shoulder but not much. He's not panting or pacing or having anxiety. Getting up is difficult and painful, especially if he's lying on the good side and needs the bad side to pull himself up. I'm not sure we're going to make it through the weekend.

Have either of you tried raw aloe? I rolled my eyes at it when someone at the health food store was selling me on Herbal Solutions' AloeForce Gel. We were talking human skin care, acne, dry skin and she swore by it. I've had it on my shelf for a few months and then a few weeks ago I used it on a freshly evacuated zit crater (I thought I'd have much better skin as a grown-up but that never panned out!). I was surprised to see it healed over with minimal redness, scabbing, dryness in only a few days. Something that size usually hangs around for a week and a half for me. I've used it a few more times since with fantastic results. I'm really surprised; I've tried every potion and cream, expensive and cheap, known to woman. Not sure if it would work on a dog, but I'll try it when I have the occasion (which, based on the cut and scrape rate with these hounds should be soon!). Cecil didn't have a great day, but he perked up at dinner and seems to be moving a little easier now. Monday can't come soon enough.

Sorry to hear about Zuri's bad night. So many ups and downs for all of us and our hounds. I'm trying so hard to stay in the moment with Cecil and not think too far ahead, but it's so hard. If we only could be inside them looking out, for just a moment. I guess we all have to be confident we'll do the right thing.

Sorry for the slow reply. I was working onsite with a customer all day today and just got home. My husband stayed home with the boys since Cecil's pill schedule requires someone be here much of the day. I know my vet likes me but I think he hates me a little bit too! LOL! I love him and he definitely lets me be part of the team and he's not afraid to say "I don't know I need to research" or call a specialist, or ask me what I've read on the subject. That kind of treatment is priceless to me. I'm pretty particular about being with Cecil during any procedure and I request they do as much as possible on the floor on his bed vs risking lifting him onto the vet table. He hates that, his legs flail and it's downright dangerous, especially now. Pushing on Cecil's butt to get him to sit will get you stink-eye and a hunkered stance that ensures he's going nowhere near the floor! Last time a tech got behind him and just touched his butt and he screamed bloody murder! I bring treats and it takes a little time to get him into the right laying down position (he can't roll over on his side from a sphinx and his down command is a sphinx). And then he doesn't move once he's on his side. It was the same routine with his chemo but that lasted longer because they did lots of fluids with that and they did the chemo in an IV drip vs the push like many vets do with carboplatin. Jen, your story about poor Skye's lady parts is cracking me up! Poor girl; I hope she's feeling better. Nothing fun about that, but at least she's a good patient with the right motivation! I think many dogs would be, but I don't think many people really understand the power of positive reinforcement/training. The vet's office is usually a mad house and no one seems to have any control over their dogs. Sometimes Cecil just looks at me like, "WTH, Mom, why did you bring me here with these crazies?" Glad to hear Zuri's Zoledronate kicked in super-fast. I hate hearing about the yelps and crying. I feel like it actually breaks my heart a little every time I hear that noise. So as far as length/pace of treatment, I also think I remember my vet (who consulted with our oncologist and did a lot of reading on zoledronate since he'd never used it) decided to do the 4g (I think, I'll check) @15 minutes because it was better at a slower drip. I will ask him on Monday when I see him. Glad to hear the meds are settling Crouton (which, by the way, might be the one of the best greyhound names I've ever heard!). I hope she continues to improve! Oh, and Cecil has had horrible hookworms when we got him and it took months to get rid of them and get his stomach settled. He still flares up now and then but VERY rarely. We've given him VetriScience Probiotic BD for 4 years. I even bumped his dose a bit when he stared chemo and have kept it there. He's not had ANY GI issues with all these meds which is shocking. Well, as far as Cecil, the news isn't great. I do not think I can say we went back to "square one" after his bad fall Saturday night. He seems a little worse than that and he's still on the upped meds dose (Gabapentin 4@3x and Tramadol 100mg@4x plus the Rimadyl and CDB oil) and he's still limping worse than I've ever seen him. Still hungry, tail wagging, sleeping through the night and wants to go on walks, but really limping badly and more tender and slow. I keep re-living the whole running, crashing, screaming episode over and over in my mind, thinking about the million things I could have done differently. I'm really really really hoping the Zoledronate works on Monday. Fingers crossed his bloodwork is OK on Friday so we can even do it.

Sounds like all went well with the treatment, but bummer you had to leave so soon after coming home. I'm sure he'll be fine - we've had no issues after treatment at all. Hopefully the subQ's will do their job and keep those kidneys in prime shape! As for the wine or liquor, I think a well-deserved nip before bed may be in order. Maybe you won't need the Unisom or Tylenol PM Great question about how Zuri gets his treatment. Cecil gets his in an IV drip over 15 minutes and I also stay with him. I bring his bed to the vet's office, we put him in a kennel in the treatment area, he lays down, and the vet techs do their thing. He never moves and they are always amazed by him. Me too. So Crouton is at 45 minutes and I think the dose is the same based on what you've said before (and I'd have to check with my vet). I wonder why the difference? Curious about Zuri's dose/admin time.

I've read that creatine can be up to 2.4 before being considered abnormal in a greyhound. You've got his baselines though and obviously the numbers are going up. Are their supplements or special diets out there to support kidney function? I should probably be reading up on this as well if we plan to continue with the zoledronate. Sending Zuri quick improvement and no sudden kidney change vibes with this treatment!!

That scream just tears your heart out, doesn't it? And then the questioning starts all over again, how long do you wait to see improvement? Do you wait? Just so hard. So, so, so glad to hear Crouton is adjusting to the meds. And I read that the pain improvement with zoledronate can be seen in as little as 24 hours in some dogs. We didn't see any improvement until treatment #3 (and I'm not even sure if that caused the improvement). You've probably seen this, but just in case, here's a link to an article with a video that has some good info: http://tripawds.com/2010/06/29/bisphosphonates-when-amputation-isnt-an-option/

Fantastic news from Zuri and Crouton! I'm so happy to hear!! Darn that bum toe of Zuri's; Cecil has corns on 3 of his feet that I constantly monitor and he also does get sore/blister type rub rashes on his toes, especially now with his irregular gait. As if the one bad leg isn't enough! Poor boys! The ups and downs of this disease are so difficult, and "thrashing" is a perfect word for how it feels before making a decision on a care plan. I definitely have more peace since making the decision for Cecil back in December, but new decision points, little disaster days, and small wins continue to keep us on our toes! Cecil was doing great when I updated earlier in the day on Saturday and then he slipped down a step and fell into a table, and of course his bad shoulder hit the table. Because he'd been feeling better and because we put down runner rugs over our hardwood from the dining room into the kitchen directly to the sliding glass doors of the screened porch, he sprinted from the end of the dining room out the sliding glass door and somehow slipped and ended up splayed out and crashed into the dining table on the screened porch. Our dogs don't romp in the house much, especially Cecil, especially since his osteo. I have no idea what got into him. I yelled at him to slow down, but it was too late. He screamed and was in a total panic. I had to help him up and he was holding up his bad leg after the screaming stopped. It was awful and I thought for sure it was broken. I got him up and stable and called him back into the kitchen to offer a treat. He hobbled up the step, bowed on command (which I always make him do after getting up because it helps stretch that shoulder out) and he gladly took his treat. I immediately upped his meds to 4 Gabapentin 3x/day and 100mg of Tramadol 4x/day. Saturday night and Sunday were bad; limping worse than I'd ever seen and hard getting up/down. Yesterday was much better and today he's almost back to where he was before the fall. Moving much faster and easier. We have bloodwork scheduled for Friday and Zoledronate on Monday. We really were seeing progress and now I feel like we're back to square one (and I'm so relieved we could even get back to square one, considering I thought it was all over on Saturday night). Good thoughts to Zuri with his treatment today and fingers crossed Crouton's new drug routine continues to control her pain. And 4My2Greys, thanks for asking about all of us .