greymatters

Re platelets, how low is low? And re kidney values, was it just creatinine that was elevated, and again how high was it? IIRC greyhounds normally have low platelet count and elevated creatinine compared to other dogs. Looking for OSU linky on bloodwork....ah, here it is. Hoping your vet is merely being extra cautious and that all is well with JJ .

greyhead - I was hoping you would chime in here. I remember your Spencer's struggles and recalled your experiences when we were dealing with Merlin's issues. Your story is one of the reasons why I opted to treat Merlin's hookworm so aggressively, even though it took some work to get one of his vets on board.

For us, what has worked best whenever Merlin's had a flare-up is to go straight to rice and beef or turkey, with NO kibble at all until he firms up a bit. White rice is easier to digest than brown, and we overcook it till it's mushy. I did not change up proteins/starches - just picked one and stuck with it for several days to see if things got better. Our best results were with overcooked white rice and either boiled ground turkey or beef. Once he's doing OK on the rice and boiled meat, we would start adding in a bit of kibble, say about 1/2 cup at a time. Actually, Merlin came to us with his call name and he's originally a "wizard", too - his racing name is Heather's Wizard. If only our wizards could magically fix their tummmies!

Oh boy, does this sound familiar - sorry you and Zeke are going through this misery. Hooks are EVIL. Our Merlin had hooks when we first brought him home, but it took almost 3 months before we realized what was wrong. He had three negative fecals before the one that finally showed a severe hookworm infestation. In the meantime, he suffered through bouts of terrible diarrhea, sometimes bloody, and yes vomiting too. As I recall, at one point he was vomiting up last night's undigested dinner at 6am, and in fact it was the vomiting and associated dehydration that kept us going back to the vet for more tests and ultimately revealed the hooks. A couple things based on our experience and ongoing consultation with our vet: first, some vets recommend at least two courses of panacur, each for 5 full days (vs just 3) and two weeks apart, to treat an active hookworm infestation. This is the protocol we followed. At the same time, we gave our boy flagyl before meals (iirc 500mg twice daily, for anywhere from 7-10 days), and Pepcid twice daily with meals. We switched him to a simple bland diet, ONE home-cooked protein (can try ground beef, boiled chicken, or turkey) plus ONE starch (white rice, potatoes, or pasta), no add-ins or treats until his poops improved. Then we slowly started adding in kibble containing the same protein source. Unfortunately due to the hookworm life-cycle, these buggers are really hard to get rid of. Their larvae can 'encyst' in tissues outside the GI tract and hang out in a dormant state for a long time. Then, when something wakes them up they migrate to the gut and mature, wreaking their havoc all over again. For this reason we followed an extended treatment protocol, basically repeating another 3-day course of panacur about every 2 months for the next year. For the record, the senior vet at the practice we go to recommended this based on Merlin's history, but the younger ones (not having discussed it with him) were skeptical about it, to put it mildly. Lastly, and this part is solely my own speculation - I think it's possible that a dog could develop sensitivties to foods that he's eating during an active hookworm infestation, because hooks dig channels in the GI tract and provoke a strong acute inflammatory response. Merlin was eating chicken-based food all throughout his battle with hooks. Even after we got rid of the hooks, his poop wasn't actually good until we stopped feeding him chicken. Could be coincidence, but if you're still battling mild diarrhea after the hooks are gone, might think about switching proteins in the kibble. Sorry this is so long, just wanted to share our experiences. Hope Zeke feels better soon! -Michele

We finally got pet health insurance for our two last fall. After a lot of research and reading of fine print, we went with Healthy Paws. Two things that were key for us is that they pay based on the actual vet bill and that they cover Rx meds. When we signed up they didn't cover alternative treatments, but a month or so ago they sent us a letter saying that they've changed their basic policy to include those as well .

Just seeing this now - sooo glad to hear Piper is A-OK!

But it should be stressed that it was found in only two sighthound breeds, Long haired Whippets & Silken Windhounds, both of whom have some measure of collie ancestry. Yes, absolutely - I almost put 'sighthound' in quotes for that very reason. And in the case of the silken windhund, the mutant allele almost certainly came from the long-haired whippet. Basically my take on the paper is that there is no evidence that this particular mdr1 mutation arose independently in sighthounds per se, nor that it is present in other sighthound breeds. Sorry for the thread-jack but I really appreciated JJNg's thoughtful commentary . To get back on point, sorry, no help re Sentinal/Program - we use Heartgard Plus here!

JJNg, thanks for your very informative post! From my reading of the PNAS paper you linked to, I'd agree it seems highly likely that the mdr1 mutation was introduced into long-haired whippets via the sheltie. It's quite clear from the paper that this is a recent mutation in sighthounds, vs. an ancient one in the herding breeds.

ETA - Never mind, thought this was a new thread.

We've worked with Kati Wrubel at Mass Vet Referral Hospital; see link for her contact info. She's not a greyhound expert per se, but she did her clinical training with Nick Dodman at Tufts where they see a fair number of greys. Most of the greys she sees in her practice are dealing with SA but she has a lot of experience with other behavior issues in non-greys. One thing we really liked about her is that she is extremely thorough - she spent almost 3 hrs with us for our "1 hour" evaluation appointment. She has also been very responsive re follow-up emails and phone calls. Note that although she is very knowledgeable about canine medical issues, especially neuropharmacology, she's not a DVM so people will need to coordinate with their own vets for prescriptions/medical issues. Also AFAIK she doesn't make house calls. Michele

Another vote for EMT gel - we've found it especially good for treating abrasions such as you describe.

Barbara, this could be totally off the mark but when Merlin was having tarry stools and vomiting undigested food, it was hookworm . Hope our buddy Akon is feeling better soon!

I'm glad you came here to ask for help and am sorry you're going through this with Ely. We have experienced a very similar problem with one of our greys and it is extremely challenging. Of course, it's certainly possible that the problems you described stem from her being so new to home life and that they will resolve as she settles in, but it's also possible that your girl may have a serious issue that requires attention. Based on our own experience with the latter, I have a few comments and suggestions: First, IMO most aggressive behavior in dogs is fear-based (see link for a good description of fear aggression toward people). Moreover, dogs who are aggressive only in their own homes (you said Ely is fine meeting strangers outside of the house, and our pup is the same) may exhibit a specific subtype called "territorial fear aggression". These are among the most fearful dogs, who lack the confidence to behave aggressively unless they are in their own territory. Secondly, although these issues can absolutely be addressed (with environmental management, obedience training, behavior modification, and possibly medication), in my opinion they represent a challenge that requires determination, patience, professional help, and a commitment to work on the problem, perhaps for the life of the dog. Because of this, not every home is a good fit for a fear-aggressive dog, and - again, IMO - there's nothing wrong with returning her if yours is not, for whatever reason. (For example, if you need to have a dog walker but she can't accept them.) As others have said, please contact your adoption group ASAP and describe the problem to them in detail. If you do return her, this information will be critical in finding her the right home. On that note, I'd just like to say that after speaking with behaviorists, trainers, and - most importantly - people with decades of experience with greyhounds, it's my understanding that this specific problem is definitely not common among retired racers. If you decide that you and Ely are not the right match but still want to adopt a greyhound, it seems unlikely that another dog would have this issue. Whatever you decide, please immediately take whatever steps are necessary to manage her environment carefully, to keep her and the humans around her safe. Again, as others have said, crate or muzzle anytime strangers are in your home. In addition to keeping everyone safe, this will make it easier for you to ignore any inappropriate behavior (or ideally, to redirect if you can to a "good" behavior). One key problem with fear-aggressive behavior is that it's self-reinforcing: the dog snarls or snaps and the scary person goes away = success. The "bad" behavior worked to achieve what she wanted, so she learns to use it. Some approaches for correcting fear-aggressive behavior can just make things worse, so it's important to minimize her opportunities to use the bad behavior "successfully", while you work on training for the "good" responses. Lastly, if you do decide to keep Ely and to try to work through these issues, please do consult a good behaviorist (maybe not the one you've already spoken to, if she didn't seem willing to help). Obedience training is critical to help a fearful dog gain confidence, but a formalized behavior modification program of systematic desensitization and counter-conditioning may also be needed, to teach her the "right" way to react. And of course, please use positive training methods only, especially for a fearful dog. Sorry to be so long-winded, but I hope you find some of this helpful. You don't have enough posts to PM here but if you'd like more details about how we're dealing with our own situation, please feel free to email me: greygeek 29 AT comcast DOT net (remove spaces and insert punctuation). Best of luck! Michele

Hi and welcome! Others have already given some good answers re leash walking and safe off-lead spaces, so I just wanted to reiterate that there are lots of greyhounds and greyhound peeps in your area. In general, people seem to work out their own exercise solutions according to their circumstances and their hounds' individual needs and personalities. As GeorgeofNE mentioned, some of us go on weekly greyhound walks - If you'd like to ask questions in person feel free to join a walk, or stop by a nearby Meet & Greet (here's an upcoming one in NW Metro Boston).

:nod Our boy is the same - we call him a poop-walker!

Thanks very much to all for your responses and your good wishes for our Merlin. Now I'm really glad I insisted on starting him at a lower dose than the 40mg our vet initially prescribed! I didn't realize that starting at 10mg was an option, but 40mg definitely seemed high to me to start with. Even though everything I've read says that the therapeutic dose for fluoxetine in dogs is 1-2 mg/kg, I really haven't been able to find much in the way of good data on this. At this point, we're more than two weeks into the 20mg dose and he's tolerating it OK. So I don't see a reason to reduce it, but am inclined to stay where we are for a while and see how he does before we increase it any further. Obviously, I want to give the lowest amount that provides some benefit for him...if 20mg is enough to help him then I wouldn't want to go any higher.

I have a couple of questions for those of you with experience in giving fluoxetine (Prozac) to your hounds. We started our 4 y.o. boy on this about 2 weeks ago, in order to help work through some behavioral issues stemming from anxiety and fearfulness. Prior to starting the fluoxetine he had a thorough regular vet check (w/full thyroid panel @ MSU) and is in excellent health; and yes, we are working with a behaviorist and are following a behavior modification plan. The fluoxetine is on board solely to help him be more receptive to the training program. First, as to dosing: Our vet initially prescribed the full therapeutic dose of 40 mg/day (so ~1.2 mg/kg for our 75 lb dog), but at our request dropped it to 20 mg/day to start out. We did this because Merlin is prone to GI upset and I was concerned about that and about appetite loss. The plan is to increase to 40 mg/day after 30 days, but I'm just wondering if there's any evidence of therapeutic efficacy at a lower dose in greyhounds? Any idea whether introducing the drug gradually, as we are doing, will help to minimize potential side effects or merely delay them? We began seeing some mild appetite loss within the first week, but nothing too worrisome at this point. He's a bit off his breakfast and suddenly picky about treats, and we are seeing some nausea in the a.m. as well. But he is still eating part of his breakfast and all of his dinner. When might we expect his appetite to improve? Or is it more likely to get worse (e.g., when we increase the dose) before it gets better? Lastly, I believe that appetite loss is the most common side effect of this drug, but are there other things that we should be particularly watchful for? I'm especially concerned about how best to recognize any adverse behavioral effects, e.g., increased depression or anxiety. Thanks in advance - I appreciate any insights or advice based on experiences with your greys. -Michele

Pat - you're welcome and of course I remember you! It was nice to see you, Star, and Joey in Carlisle a couple of weeks ago. Off topic re Merlin, I've sent you a PM . Michele

I second the recommendation for Vetri-Probiotics - we give Merlin the Everyday Softchews for maintenance and they seem to work well for him. Our vet highly recommends both FortiFlora and the Vetri-Probiotics and has suggested that we try rotating between the two, so we've started doing that. (NeylasMom, thanks for the info on the Vetri BD formula - I've been thinking of trying that for flare-ups.) FWIW, here's the best price I've found for Vetri Chews, and the FortiFlora is reasonable there too.

I believe that the Kirkland brand foods (chicken and rice, lamb and rice, etc) and the Nature's Domain are all made by the same company, Diamond. The Chix/Lamb & Rice are similar to the Diamond Naturals brand (available at Tractor Supply). The Nature's Domain is similar to Diamond's ToTW Pacific Stream.

A beautiful tribute to your very special boy. We are so deeply saddened by your loss, Melissa. Although we shared in only a very small part of your journey with Ave, we will remember him always. He was a remarkable boy and has left quite an enduring legacy! Run free and rest well, Ave. You will be missed.

Oh, I'm so terribly sorry to read this. You are in our thoughts.

We have had both a foster and a multi-week guest (both greys, and at different times), and we always separated them from our boy when we weren't home. Neither visitor could be crated (and we felt guilty making Merlin go back in the crate ) so we used an xpen stretched across a wide doorway as a divider between two rooms.

Just throwing this out there, but have you tested for TBDs? IIRC localized lameness, swelling, and joints that are warm to the touch can be indicative of Lyme or other TBDs...

Another voice on ditching the boots - not being able to feel the ground underfoot makes some dogs uneasy. It gets pretty cold here, and last winter we literally had 3ft of snow on the ground for several months. Our boy wears coats during the winter - anything from light fleece to full-on winter gear depending on temps and wind - but we've only ever used footgear to protect an injured pad. He walks several miles a day without boots in cold, snow, and ice, and will only fuss if slush gets packed between his toes (which his dutiful servant then promptly removes).